Hate comes to Fort Wayne

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rickr

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The Rev. Phelps and his members of hate are coming to Fort Wayne to protest the four day run of the production "The Laramie Project" A well known play about the healing of the city of Laramie WY. after the brutal beating and murder of Matthew Shephard. In 1998 Shephard was beaten and left hanging on a fence to die for being Gay. The play will be shown at six area churches,and although Phelps and his gang have not obtained the proper permits from The City of Fort Wayne at this time,they will protest each church on March 13th.If you have never heard of The Westboro Baptist Church,or Rev. Phelps, they have a anti Gay web site at: www.godhatesfags.com (I will NOT post a link to it!)
A debate is also schedualed for Phelps at the school I attended in the 1970's Indiana/Purdue University Fort Wayne. The Equal Rights Coalition has planned the forum,and I will attend if at all possible. The debate will take place at 11:00 a.m. on March 13th at IPFW. I have included a link to the Fort Wayne paper is anyone is interested in reading about this event. This event and the attitude of the churches and the people involved proves that although we have made progress,we have a long,long way to go.

Thank you,
Rick

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/news/11066579.htm
 
Boy, I'm sure glad I live in Canada. It's illegal to perpetrate that kind of hatred here (at least publicly)! There should be a limit on free speech when it involves hatred.
 
Chances are they will probably not obtain permits from the city, which is a good thing.

I'd love to see the look on that guy's face when the cops show up (illegal protest)...
 
Can't they go protest people going on welfare that don't need it! Because I'm tired of my tax money going to people that don't use birth control and do not need to reproduce! Or maybe go after crack lords that are selling it to kids! I mean really! People like that have mental problems! Hopefully someday they will get a clue! There is much more that I would like to say! But I guess I should save that energy just in case I run into one of them!
 
Yeah,Bethann, I know how you feel. They are not worth it. That cult and their leader are un-Christian, sub-human, and have serious mental problems. It's a shame they can't focus themselves on something worthwhile. How do people get like that??? It is very scary. Like that nutty neo-nazi group who killed that judge's husband and mother in Chicago. Can't we just pack them all up and send them somewhere else?
 
Christians?

These people don't deserve an audience. They are not Christians. True Christians don't hate. They respect people for what they are, and try to reach out to as many people as possible.

I really can't stand these nut cases that try to pass themselves off as Christians, preachers, or churches. They are just hate groups that are too chicken to admit it.

If they want to wage a war against evil, why don't they go to some of these countries where people are being murdered for speaking out against their despotic leaders? I can answer that also. Because they are safely hiding behind our Constitution and the right to free speech. Sad, isn't it?
 
Oh, how ignorant!

This bunch hasn't learned that God doesn't hate anybody if you subscribe to biblical principles. You don't have to be religious at all to figure this out! Unfortunately we still have to deal with the worlds twisted minds.
 
Unfortunately

It's everywhere. There was just a little blurb on local
news here about a group driving their vehicles decorated with antigay messages and pictures around local schools. They got the whuppins that they deserved; but sad to say they accomplished their attention getting mission. In good news,
I read a little blurb the other day where a Lesbian creamed
Freds daughter in a local election. Fred and his ilk are just unhappy, maladjusted buffoons!!!
 
Amen, Venus

I'm a Christian and I'll proudly proclaim it anywhere, but I don't hate anyone or shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. Those nuts aren't even close to being Christian. They're a hate group. God doesn't hate gays or any other people. That's just wrong.

GOD HATES HATE
 
Thanks for sharing whats going on.

Myself, always being gay. I guess I have just become numb to this stupidity. I could not wait to move to a more tolerant location, my teen years were ok, not great in the midwest. Rick I do appreciate your post and bringing this back to my attention. I was horrified when the Shephard case, was in the National news everyday (and i still am horrified). May God rest his sweet soul. However I am quite sure, it is not any teenage females dream to, live in public housing, without birthcontrol and to live with a substance abuse problem. That is a whole other social issue. My way of thinking its best not to label anyone, anytime. Like that lady in Lackawanna Blues (which I think everyone should watch) says " Its ok to be upset, but its not ok to hate, Ive lived with that poison ALL MY LIFE" RickR Thanks and keep us posted on how this plays out.
 
Pseudo Christians

I've been lurking for a while, amazed that there are others that consider washers to be fascinating. This topic, though, pushes me over the line where I have to speak out.

I'm a Christian and not ashamed of it. I was in church this morning, it's a well known denomination, and I'm on the church council. PASTOR PHELPS DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME (shouting intended). He doesn't speak for anybody I known in church either. I went to his website and, well, after going in there I needed a shower. "Thank God for the Tsunami"???? "Thank God for 9/11"???? Make that two showers, with a bar of Fels Naptha.

Tonite I'll set aside some time to pray for his misguided soul, for it would truly be wrong to fight hate with more hate.

May the good people of Ft Wayne give him a cold shoulder.
 
Oh, as for the Reverend Mr. Phelps . . . HMPH! Reverend indeed! If you don't have anything nice to say [about somebody] . . best not to say anything at all.

Or as Clairee Belcher said in "Steel Magnolias" -- If you don't have anything nice to say about anybody, come sit by me!
 
More of my comments

These jackasses (choice of diction logical) are OBVIOUSLY not Christians. What "Reverend" Phelps doesn't realize is that, like Jason said, God hates "haters". I believe that if no one gives him any attention, neither positive nor negative, he will just pack up and leave, which is usually what happens 99% of the time with these types of people. Another thing he doesn't realize is that he looks like a complete moron carrying "those signs" and displaying all that bulls**t on the Internet.

After looking at all of that I needed a Jet Action wash!
 
When I first saw this nut on TV, I was totally enraged. He just looked the appearance of evil.

And these other stupids, who said "you brought this on yourselves" re: 9/11 and the Tsunami. These fire and brimstone preachers sure give us a taste of God's love, don't they?

I heard someone say, "Even if you don't believe in Jesus, you should at least live by his principles". Phelps and all the other hateful judgemental preachers just ain't doin' it.

http://www.godlovesfags.com
 
Not again! Mr. Phelps and his band of extremists have been to Omaha and Nebraska on more than one occaision. The most recent visit was to stand with their messages of hate at the funeral of a teenage boy who had taken his own life in desperation and panic over being gay. Can you imagine the pain and suffering his family was going through to begin with, then only to have these people show up at the FUNERAL?? The story has a somewhat happy ending as several local radio stations got word that he was coming and rallied over 500 people to show up the day they were to arrive and kept Phelps and his freakshow so far back from the funeral and made so much noise, they were hardly noticed or heard.

It's these types of extreme religious zelots that we should be wary of, not for their message but for the next level of "protest" and activism that they may try to carry out... Haven't we lost enough lives through the ages in the name of religion??
 
And we've also lost much through the absence of religion. Let's not forget Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. Bottom line is, evil people will find whatever rationale suits their purpose, depending on the time and place.

Fact is that Phelps is overtly psychopathic (adult antisocial personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, paranoia, etc.), and a quick scan through his history will disclose enough diagnostic signs to fill up any checklist. Also put his name into a search engine along with the phrase "child abuse" and you'll probably find the account of one of his sons who escaped. Beware, if you read that, it will give you nightmares for a month. The guy is clearly earmarked for a one way trip to hell; though if you go with the definition that says hell = alienation from love and from God, he's already there.

How to deal with Phelps:

Ignoring him only gives him a platform for making more self-promoting videos, and possibly for reaching a few more tortured souls with his poison.

a) The serious religious approach. Silent line of people standing in front of and behind his group (so he can't get a clear video shot) with signs such as "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, and soul, and love thy neighbor as thyself. So says Jesus." Perhaps sing hymns.

b) The overtly political approach. Equally well-disciplined (but not silent) line of people with signs that cut across his message entirely. For example this is a good opportunity to juxtapose the demand for an equal right to legal monogamy (marriage) with Phelps' hate-spew (which after all is merely a more overt version of the hatred behind the latest rash of Jim Crow laws). In this case, the signs read "Equal right to legal monogamy!" and "Love and marriage, go together like a horse and carriage!" and so on. Signs quoting Phelps re. 9/11 and the tsunami would also be appropriate.

Also in this case, singing traditional romantic-love songs that lend themselves to chorus performance. For instance, "Oh yes we're / goin' to the chapel and we're / gonna' get married!" and "Love and marriage" and so on. This will have the effect of driving Phelps et. al. into a furious rage, at which point they will misbehave even more than usual and shoot themselves in the foot even more than usual. This also lends itself to taking your own videos which can later be used to make the point that some of the more "subtle" forms of hatred are only more subtle, not any less hateful.

c) Combination of both of the above, which is the option I prefer.
 
I thoroughly disagree with Phelps on all levels, but I read this thread, and many of the opinions here could be considered hate speech directed at Phelps and his ilk. As much as we would like to shut Phelps down, his group would be able to shut us down. "But Peter, Phelps' hate speech is different." Maybe so, but he does have the Constitutional right to express them and the right to peacefully assemble. Not for nothing, but I rather him be public and show everyone the @$$ he and his followers are, rather than it go underground and fester into the American version of a terrorist organization.

Designgeek, I REALLY like your ideas.
 
Well, according to God's word, we are to love our enemies, even Mr. Phelps, but we certainly can DESPISE his hatred and how he feels about homosexuals.

So I guess it boils down to there is a difference between HATE and DISLIKE. I don't hate him, but I don't like him.

You're right. He's very dangerous. I don't even want to go near or even mess with him and his group.
 
Abuse of Free Speech

What Phelps and his followers practice are an abuse of free speech.And the abuse is directed at a whole community of American people,of which the Constitution is supposed to protect. I am praying that his the attention from his abuse in Fort Wayne backfires on him,and more people than ever turn out the see The Laramie Project,and the debate at Indiana/Purdue University Fort Wayne. Already a couple of friends are going to attend both with me.And I will be asking more....

Rick
 
I've never heard of this guy, but I surely wouldn't want him or his festering followers to CT. The crap thses people stand for, all in the name of religion. Maybe he should be sent to Iraq to watch the bloodshed.....& leave everyone else alone
 
I was fortunate enough to hear Judy Shepard speak last year. She said the good thing about Fred Phelps is that, by seeking to spread hatred, he creates publicity for anti-hate causes. That, at least, is a silver lining.
 
I had never heard of this man either. I went to his site, and about puked to put it lightly! All I can say about him and his followers is WACKO! I really wouldn't mind spending tax dollars on putting them in a Institution. Free speech is one thing but that is ridiclous! What a waste of energy!
 
PeterH, thanks.

I'm pretty hard core about the First Amendment also. But this guy pushes the limit about as far as Nazis marching through a Jewish neighborhood.

So far our society has a consensus about three limits on free speech: a) Shouting fire in a crowded theatre, i.e. speech that falsely claims an emergnecy in such a manner as to lead to a panic that itself is a danger to public safety. b) Direct threats against an individual, which are the definition of "assault" (carrying out the threat is the "battery" part), and here we extend the boundary a bit with regard to public officials, where any threat against them is taken seriously because we don't want our system of governance to be subjected to manipulation by intimidation. c) Fraud, i.e. commercial speech that is false and misleading, because this would otherwise enable criminals to essentially rob people at will.

We have a partial consensus on one more category, d) pornography or obscenity. However I find it interesting that the definition is restricted to "explicit depictions of sexual or excretory functions or activities without redeeming scientifc of other social value." I believe this should be extended to include violence according to the same rule. For example video games such as Grand Theft Auto which effectively give players a subjective "reward" sensation for committing on-screen crimes up to and including murder of police officers. (And it's especially hypocritical that Hollywood is talking about how depictions of *smoking* in the movies should be eliminiated, so as to "not encourage kids to do it," while the depiction of all manner of murder and mayhem is somehow supposed to never encourage kids to do *that*, while we have one of the highest crime rates in the industrialized world.)

And we have also a consensus on banning child pornography, but in that case there is not even a question of "speech," the issue is that children are being sexually abused to make those pictures, which is clearly abhorrent to any civilized sensibility.

The underlying basis for criminalizing the induction of mass panic (via "fire" in a crowded theatre) or the induction of lust (via pornography) is that those emotions preclude reason, preclude rational decision making on the part of individuals, and thereby cause individuals to behave in a manner that is overtly detrimental in a measurable way (e.g. stampeding the theatre, risk of injury and death; lusting after children or married people, child-molestation and adulterous breakage of families). In other words, those types of speech "push buttons" in susceptible individuals that can produce more-or-less automatic behavioral responses that are hazardous in an obvious way. The underlying basis for criminalizing "threat speech" is that it is a statement that one is willing to, or about to, harm another person: a clear and present danger to another person.

With those criteria in mind, there is a rational basis for banning hate "speech." It is clearly aimed at inducing an emotion of hate, which in turn is conducive to hazardous and detrimental behavior such as committing violent acts against the targeted individuals. As well it constitutes a form of "threat," in that its defining emotion is one that coincides with the capability *and inclination* to harm others. A person in a state of hatred or rage is as much a manifest hazard as a driver in a state of drunkenness.

So on balance, I'd have to say that hate speech could reasonably be criminalized in the same manner as "threat speech."

As well, hatred itself should be recognized as a form of chronic (long-term) psychopathology (personality disorder); and rage itself should be recognized as an acute (short-term) psychotic state (psychotic as defined by sensory distortions, ideas of reference, and loss of reality-testing). Both of these should be subject to involuntary civil commitment under the standard of "danger to self or others."

There is however a risk that the highly manipulative sociopaths such as Phelps would merely tailor their messages in such a manner as to circumvent the law, and tailor their behavior to circumvent the psychiatric diagnosis. We already see this with respect to other cases, e.g. racism, anti-Semitism, etc., which are "merely" the subject of a nearly universal social consensus of severe disapproval.

In the end, regardless of whatever legal measures are available, there's no substitute for fighting back -in a disciplined manner- whenever and wherever these creeps appear.
 
This is a quote from Fred's son Mark: "I realize that my father is a very unstable person who is determined to hurt people. And because he is so bound to be hateful and hurtful, and because he's so untrustworthy, I believe it's a good idea to respond to him with caution much like the caution used when dealing with a rattlesnake or a mad dog. You see, the causes that he crusades for, including the Bible, are not the issue here. He simply wants to hate and to have a forum for his hate."

Four of Fred's children left his church (His church only consists of 51 family members...children, in-laws and grandchildren) and have publicly exposed him as an extreme wife and child abuser. According to the offspring who escaped, those remaining with him are "brainwashed" abuse survivors. The story truely is a nightmare. Fred systematicly cut all his family ties with the outside world...including relatives...and visciously abused his wife and 13 children. They lived in terror and fear. It is sad he was able to carry on such abuse. A lawyer, he slapped lawsuits on anyone who tries to interfere...including his children's school and local law enforcement. He is such a lunatic, that locals would rather ignore him than try and deal with his behavior. The man should really be in a padded cell....he is insane.
 
That's extreme sociopathy for you. Or evil, pure and simple.

In the old days there was another way people like this were dealt with.

Hunting accidents.

I'm not suggesting that's *right," just that in earlier times these monsters were not just let loose to run around and cause harm.

As a theological and philosophical matter I have to wonder if people are morally responsible for the results of brain injuries? That is, the guy is clearly damaged and a post-mortem would probably find visible signs such as you see with Alzheimer's (though different). And his actions are clearly evil. But where does one draw the line of moral culpability, as distinct from criminal or other forms of culpability?

It may be that God forgives even the monsters in one way or another, but as a society we can't let them run around loose as a threat to public safety.

At one time even Osama and the Ku Klux Klan had only "a few" followers. Change the circumstances a bit and Phelps could pick up more than his 51. Maybe not enough to lead to mass murder, but maybe enough to constitute a more direct physical threat. Ignoring these people lets them gather strength in the shadows.

Here's another possible chant for a counter-demonstration:

"Bigot! Loser! Child abuser!"

And perhaps signs with quotes from the family members who escaped would be appropriate there.
 
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