Have you seen the new GE Geospring Water Heater?

[48bencix]

GE has a new Heat Pump Water Heater, which uses $320 less per year than a standard electric water heater, at $ .10 per kwh. I know that Heat Pump Water Heaters have been tried before. Does anyone here have one? If so, what is your experience?

GE Appliances GeoSpring™ Heat Pump Water Heater Frequently Asked Questions

www.geappliances.com

 

[toggleswitch]

Well these appear to me to be useless in a typical norhteastern heated basement.

The heat that is extracted from the surrounding area is most likely going to have to be replaced by running the central boiler (heats WATER for hot-water [hydronic] heat) or the central furnace (heats AIR for central heating).

These are probably best in hot /warm climates say in a Florida /Puerto Rico garage or attic to provide "free" cooling, or in a Long Island seasonal home(i.e. not used in winter) for the "free" cooling and dehumdifification it provides.

Now if this country wanted to do SOMETHING right, there weould be more doucumentation provided with competing heat from a heat-pimp pool heater and a central air-conditioning systems. The heat-pump pool-heater extracts heat from the ambient/surrounding air in summer and concentrates it, pushing it into the swimming pool. The home's central air conditioner takes heat from indoors and throws it outdoors. It seems to me that the pool heater could cool the hosue (or the attic) for "free" located properly or with a heat exchanger. Since pool heaters tend to be 100k BTU/h and up they could EASILY cool a large house.

 

[hydralique]

I once spoke to a City of Los Angeles Building Inspector who had installed an A/C system in his home which used the water from his pool as the system condensor. It was similar to a ground-loop system which uses a series of pipes buried in the ground through which water circulates to provide the condensor function. The inspector liked his system quite a lot and said it did decrease his costs over a conventional air-driven condensor, but he admitted to greater maintenance requirements due to the pumps and such. This sort of system works especially well in climates with large daytime to nighttime temperature swings as the water in the pool has a great deal of thermal mass and as such is never as hot or cold as the maximum or minumum outside air temperature.

 

[maytagbear]

However.

The price of this one is around 2,000/2,500 USD. I think Lowe's asks about 2,300.

Even saying if it lasted 20 years......which it might not, it does not seem to be an exceptional value. Maybe a good value, but not an exceptional one.

It requires a furnace type air filter, and other regular maintenance that a standard electric hot water tank does not. If one was motivated, but not everyone stays on top of the maintenance.

However, it is an interesting concept, and future refinements will more than likely happen.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[48bencix]

From GE

$1699 from GE online store. I hope it will be cheaper locally. It will pay for itself, depending on the electric rate. I wish I could have it inside my house in the summer and it would provide additional cooling. In the winter I want it in my garage, if there is not enough heat there, it goes to full electric mode. But the opposite is true with my refrigerator, I want it in the house during the winter, but not the summer. Maybe someday all of our heat producing or "cold producing" appliances can be integrated on some sort of water circulating circuit. Like some say they have done with the pool water. Ground source heat pumps seem to work well in the summer and winter because of the huge source of continuous 55 degree soil.

 

[dj-gabriele]

That's a great piece of equipment! I almost can't believe that something like that here in Italy is almost unknown even if there are many brands that sell similar heat pump heaters! Here it would be repaid in electricity savings less than two years! But still, unless you have your own solar electric system, methane is cheaper than any form of electricity!

 

[spiralator60]

Thinking About It

I'm seriously thinking about this model, to replace my current water heater which is about 20 years old. This is not a major issue at the moment, but something that I would like to do when the opportunity is present. Preferably, I don't want to wait until the unit stops working or springs a leak. The heater is in the garage, which retains a lot of heat from outside from late spring until when the weather cools down, particularly during the summer months.

To make the change would mean going from gas to electric, but the necessary electric lines are already present. The location in my garage allows for cleaning out the filter and flushing out the tank without presenting access problems. I'm OK with making the extra effort for maintenance. Also, I've looked at the numbers of cost, savings, etc., and this is something that I can live with, especially since this is not a purchase that I am looking to make at least until around the middle of the summer. My electricity rate (courtesy of Southern California Edison) is between $.09 and $.12 per kwh, depending on usage levels and the usage tier that is attained.

As for prices, the lowest that I've seen so far is at Sears, which currently lists the Geospring at $1599.99 on its web site. This is just for the water heater itself. Delivery and installation will certainly increase this amount, especially since not many locations near me have the unit in stock.

 

[favorit]

I' ve seen a very similar one in Slovenia

In the Trnovo campsite, close to Kobarid/Caporetto.
And not last summer ... but since 15 years ago.
It provides hot water for all the showers, restrooms, laundry rooms in the camping with a 400 W motor

Duck and run to all those who were supposed Slovenia is just an ex-eastern european not developed country

 

[favorit]

Gabriele

take the Modena-Brenner A22 highway ... the more you get close to Bolzano/Bozen, the more common are these things

 

[mielabor]

My boss has underfloor heating in his house in France that uses a heat pump. The heat is taken from the soil in a field near his house where an extensive pipe network has been buried. In the beginning there were a few problems with clogged pipes caused by soil that had entered the pipes during installation but now he is quite content with it.

In our laboratory in France we have air conditioners that work in reverse mode (heating inside, cooling outside) when it is cold.

 

[alr2903]

$1700. for a water heater seems steep to me. You could buy a whole lot of gas ge profiles for that kind of money. Is this like dryers electric is cheaper than propane but more expensive than natural gas? If it dumps cool air into the room, it must also have a condensation drain line? Please keep us posted. alr2903

 

[favorit]

condensation line

of course they have one. They actually are A/C units

True they aren't that cheap, but they are an option where city gas pipelines aren't available (a gas tank installation may be more expensive) or where gas rates aren't that much cheaper than electricity

 

[dj-gabriele]

Favorit:

I'm not saying that those do not exist here but simply that compared to the current installed base, they're virtually non-existent! We considered one when we re-did the heating at our place but we remained with a condensing methane boiler coupled with solar heating. Even methane alone is cheaper than a heat pump with our rates and besides, for the cost of the heat pump we got the condensing boiler that could be coupled to the solar panels and also provides heating in winter.

Anyway, the model was a 120L Ariston boiler for 1600€, the "standard" boiler was 1400€

 

[sudsmaster]

In another thread one of our Australian friends says his house water is heated by a heat exchange system. I got the impression that this is not uncommon in Australia, which is a much warmer climate than the USA.

And I also recall a Chinese friend stating either here or on That Home Site that he was involved with a project to create a heat exchange clothes dryer, which could be used to cool the room while it dried the clothes.

But haven't seen any of those advertised, just yet.

In my own home I'd want a system of louvers to direct the cold heat exchanged air either into the residence or vent it outside the residence, depending on the time of year.

 

[toggleswitch]

~he was involved with a project to create a heat exchange clothes dryer, which could be used to cool the room while it dried the clothes.

LOL we have another thread going with a portable A/C that vents heat out the widnow via a hose.

All you have to do is have two such units of 11,000 BTU/h blow their heat through the dryer and VOILA! it's accomplished. and two 110v A/C could easily be used on a 110/220v 30a three (or four) wire line!

 

[sudsmaster]

Toggs, that would work, as long as the AC unit collects the condensate moisture in a pan, rather than venting it through the exhaust tube.

 

[mayguy]

Rheem Model of HP

I just saw a training Video on the Rheem model of the HP water heater. I am impress with it.

You get $2.00 of heat for every $1 you spend. Where gas is anywhere from 83¢ to 54¢, and electric about 93¢ to 82¢ worth. Replacing this in place of Electric is about $300-some a year saving vs $100-some over gas replacement.

Unit needs 1,000 cu ft of free space. (no closets) Air blowing out of the unit will be cool but not enough to affect the room. and if the area goes below 40˚, it shuts off. A drain line is needed for the coil.

Unit runs quiet, about 47 (?) Db.

I am going to stay with my gas since space is limited in our utility room.

 

[toggleswitch]

Air blowing out of the unit will be cool but not enough to affect the room.

What is this based upon?

In the U.S.A the coldest room in the coldest climate needs about 10 watts / square feet of heat. So a 12 x 12 foot room (144 square feet) needs say 1,440 watts, so rounded up its 1,500 watts.

1,500 watts X 3.4 BTUs per watt means 5,100 BTU/hr.

So how does a water heater that extracts tens of thousands of BTU/Hr from the air not sufficiently cool the room? I understand the water heater is not on constantly, but still...........