Having some problems with my kitchenaid kds-58 (kds-18)

[voodoochikin04]

Hello!
Well after over a year of trouble free amazing dish scrubbing power, we finally started noticing some issues with our kds-58. It started with the tub sometimes not draining "fully". Then we noticed over the last month that the top rack was not cleaning near as good. Today after a normal wash, I found the tub was basically full, and top rack dishes were not clean. I decided to check things out.

I did find that my brass ring on the upper wash arm support had cracked but is still in place. I speculate that it's no longer holding the washarm in place and maybe the washarm is floating up during it's rotation and slowing down? I'm not educated enough on this. I pulled the wash arm support and the impeller and could not find any other issues. The wash arm spins smoothly by hand, and has just a little play when wiggling. Maybe that's too worn? At any rate I ordered a replacement wash arm support on eBay, the kind with the plastic part in place of the brass funnel looking piece.

I'm not sure what's causing the tub to not drain fully, a cancel and drain has no problem draining it fully. It's also random as too the level of water in the bottom after a completed wash. Sometimes it's at the "partial fill" level and sometimes less.

Any assistance or guidance would be much appreciated. I'm not against upgrading these parts of someone has a newer 2arm style parts available like stevet's conversion. Thanks!! -Matt

Picture for attention.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Have you checked the filter under the wash arm tp see if it is full of stuff? Have you removed the lower front panel and checked the drain valve to see if something is blocking it? Start with the filter.

 

[voodoochikin04]

When you say filter I'm assuming you just mean the stainless mesh basket filter? I clean that routinely, except for the fine strand fiberous material that collects into the rolled bottom lip. Seems impossible to get it all out.

I have not checked the drain valve, I just had figured if a cancel and drain was easily removing all the water than it was probably fine, but I'll actually check it to make sure.

Thanks!

 

[cam2s]

Intermittent problems can sometimes be hard to diagnose, so you’ll have to do some good detective work. If the level is bottom during circulation isn’t correct, you may have an issue with your fill valve. This is not entirely uncommon on older machines as they can fill with sediment over the years and clog. Also KitchenAid used a double solonoid valve, so if one side is start to weaken it will restrict the flow. This would also account for poor cleaning in the upper rack.

As far as the draining issue is concerned, I would check the items as already mentioned. Check your drain line and as well for any blockages. If those suggestions don’t clean it up you may need to do some digging to clear things up.

 

[voodoochikin04]

Thank you! I'll do some digging and post back.

 

[voodoochikin04]

I flipped the DW on its back and snapped a few photos. Just to confirm what seems obvious to me...

The tan colors valve is the inlet (I only see a single solenoid on it).
The blue valve is the drain. I moved the drain valve manually and it's smooth operating.

Guessing I should pull these lines and...? Blow air through them, run a snake or something?

See photos.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Blue is drain. Remove hoses, move valve flapper, check for foreign object.

 

[cam2s]

So I guess if I was paying attention I would noticed that you said kds-58, denoting the portable model. The portables did indeed only have a single solonoid, as they aren’t continuously connected to the water supply. In any case take the hoses off on both sides and check for sediment and other blockages. Same for the drain valve, take the hose off on both sides, check for any blockages. Also check the line exiting the machine for kinks.

To test the fill valve you really need to measure. Since it’s a portable you could easily measure the water it pumps out or check the level with a ruler in the tank. Fill level is critical, especially in these older water hungry machines.

 

[voodoochikin04]

Back when I got the machine it was filling correctly. We are on a fairly new well with digital controller and the water heater is about 10' away from the kitchen faucet. Pretty solid pressure and I removed the flow restrictors from the faucet adapter when we got this thing.

I'll pull the lines, then measure the fill. I'll plug the sink drain and do my best to measure the outflow.

Is it possible this is a timer issue? Where it's proceeding to quickly before the machine can drain thoroughly? I'm a tad bit naive to the functioning of these mechanical timers.

 

[combo52]

Cleaning and draining problems on a KDS 18

Hi since this is a portable dishwasher it’s pretty easy to diagnose what’s going on. Run it through a full cycle while you monitor the machine, each time it drains catch all the drain water and it should be between one and a half and 2 gallons.

 

Each time the dishwasher drains it should drain completely if it stops draining while water is still coming out of the drain hose the pump is weak or there’s a clog. Most common reason these machines doesn’t drain completely broken drain impeller or a small piece of glass caught in the drain valve, or even up in the uni couple where the rubber hose connects To the faucet adapter.

 

If it’s not getting enough water you need to replace or rebuild the inlet valve by replacing the rubber diaphragm do not take the inlet valve apart unless you have a replacement diaphragm, these valves do not get clogged with minerals.

 

This is not likely a timer problem either.

 

Let us know how it does will try to advise with enough information

 

John L

 

[voodoochikin04]

Thanks John! I get these checks done today and report back!

 

[voodoochikin04]

I have not had time to check the lines yet but figured I'd get this information while making dinner. I ran a normal cycle with no dishes in the machine. Before hand I filled 1.5gallons and 2gallons of water into the sink and measured the levels.

Prewash filled an inch onto the angled plane of the mesh filter.
Prewash drained 1.5gallons. but seemed to click off before being done draining.
Before motor was done running.

Second prewash drain: 1.5gallons.
Same thing, solenoid clicked, water stopped draining. Motor continued to run for 15-20seconds before fill solenoid clicked.

3rd prewash drain (maybe first wash? Forgot to notice the lights): 1.75gallons. drain valve closed, motor still running. Water still in tub.

Wash cycle: 1.5-1.75gallons drained. Decent amount of water in tub when drain valve closed. Immediately started filling.

Rinse cycle: 1.5- 1.75gallons drained.
Again quite a bit of water in the tub when valve closed.

Rinse 2: less than 1 gallon.
Rinse 3: 1.5gallons.
Rinse 4: 1.75gallons. maybe 2" of water in the sump after draining is finished.

This amount of water looks normal for how it's always been prior to issues. But with a full load of dishes we are seeing water levels at the "partial fill" level once the dry cycle starts.

If I need to rerun this test with a full load of dishes I can. I still intend to pull the hoses and check for obstructions. When I had the wash arm support out and took the impeller out, there was no debris or any apparent damage to the impeller as far as cracks or chips.

 

[combo52]

You either have a piece of broken glass, plastic, etc caught in the drain valve or uni-cupule or a broken drain impeller.

 

The DW should always drain completely with 10-20 seconds of drain valve open time with motor running each time it goes to drain.

 

It sounds like the fill valve is fine.

 

There are several reasons why the top rack cleaning is not great, although top rack cleaning is not the greatest on KD18 DWs.

 

John L.

 

[voodoochikin04]

Thanks John! I'll report back after checking all the lines. I appreciate your expertise!

-Matt

 

[voodoochikin04]

As you said, John, I found some broken plastic in the drain valve.