Was just looking at the manual for my 12-year-old Duet.
It lists 33 gallons for a wash and three rinses when running a full 24 lbs. load.
It lists 33 gallons for a wash and three rinses when running a full 24 lbs. load.
HE Toploader Water Usage
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ryner1988
Well-known member
I'm guessing this machine was made back when the water-saving measures were starting to take off but weren't to a crazy point yet. Machines like this and the Bravos-style washers made it seem like high-efficiency top loaders could provide a good working alternative for people who didn't quite want to continue using the water-guzzling machines of old but weren't quite ready to commit to a front loader either.
These days, water restrictions have become so stringent that there's no real way to make a top loader effective and have it still be HE. You either use the settings as they are and it truly isn't enough water and it wrecks clothes especially with the impeller versions, or you use deep-water settings which not only defeats the purpose of the HE machine but also comrpomises cleaning as that's not how they're designed to work. This machine appears to be a bit quirky, i.e., aborting spin twice, but if it's like Neptune TL's I've seen on Youtube, it gets the job done. Unfortunately though, it wouldn't pass muster today because it uses too much water.
Aside from possibly the Speed Queen TC5, I don't believe I would buy another modern top loader. If I am faced with the prospect of replacing my old direct drive TL, I'll be looking at a front loader. It's just the only practical choice left in the mainstream modern market.
These days, water restrictions have become so stringent that there's no real way to make a top loader effective and have it still be HE. You either use the settings as they are and it truly isn't enough water and it wrecks clothes especially with the impeller versions, or you use deep-water settings which not only defeats the purpose of the HE machine but also comrpomises cleaning as that's not how they're designed to work. This machine appears to be a bit quirky, i.e., aborting spin twice, but if it's like Neptune TL's I've seen on Youtube, it gets the job done. Unfortunately though, it wouldn't pass muster today because it uses too much water.
Aside from possibly the Speed Queen TC5, I don't believe I would buy another modern top loader. If I am faced with the prospect of replacing my old direct drive TL, I'll be looking at a front loader. It's just the only practical choice left in the mainstream modern market.
lakewebsterkid
Well-known member
Logixx
Wow! I doubt my Duet used much more than 20 gallons on any given cycle, except Bulky with extra rinses. I would imagine that 16-18 gallons would be a good guess for a full load. In the LG/Kenmore FL we have, a Normal cycle probably is pushing 24 with the water level raised slightly.
Wow! I doubt my Duet used much more than 20 gallons on any given cycle, except Bulky with extra rinses. I would imagine that 16-18 gallons would be a good guess for a full load. In the LG/Kenmore FL we have, a Normal cycle probably is pushing 24 with the water level raised slightly.
Well, the 33 gallons are for a full load. A full European-style load. That's filling the tub to the top and then stuffing in more.
The Baby Clothes would be the cycle in question. It's essentially a normal Cotton cycle with an extra rinse by default (3 in total).
The Baby Clothes would be the cycle in question. It's essentially a normal Cotton cycle with an extra rinse by default (3 in total).
Neptune TL whites load.
Whites cycle, Extra Rinse (3 rinses total).
6 bath towels
4 hand/smaller towels
6 sackcloth dish towels
15 wash/dish cloths
2 t-shirts
60 ankle socks
The third interim spin and spray (before the final rinse) failed (aborts after 4 tries -- try / distribute / try / distribute / try / distribute / spin or fail) which is unfortunate because it's faster and longer than the other interims. Failure leaves the load saturated for the final rinse fill which is deeper, so the gallons report is reduced from normal conditions. A failed interim spin triggers an extended drip/drain in place of the spin.
Pics = loaded, wash drain, final rinse drain, finished-and-fluffed.
Numbers posted on Thu 5/18 (if I don't forget).
tomdawg
Well-known member
I’m going to go with 38 gallons. If I remember right. The rinses are more to help get the dirt out.
I personally think the Neptune TL is the best high efficiency top loader out there. They cleaned really well, especially on big loads. It’s the best washer for comforters as well.
The downfalls were small loads and tangles. They were quite annoying.
I personally think the Neptune TL is the best high efficiency top loader out there. They cleaned really well, especially on big loads. It’s the best washer for comforters as well.
The downfalls were small loads and tangles. They were quite annoying.
Wash = 8.9 gal initial + 0.9 top-off after tumble began = 9.8 gal
Spray = 0.9 gal
Rinse 1 = 4.8 initial + 1.6 top-off = 6.4 gal
Spray = 0.8 gal
Rinse 2 = 5.1 initial + 3.5 top-off = 8.6 gal
Spray = no spray, spin aborted
Rinse 3 (no extraction, load drip-drain saturated) = 7.3 initial to high level + 1.3 top-off = 8.6 gal
Spray = 0.9
Total = 36 gals
launderess
Well-known member
Never quite got those Maytag TL machines. Happily YT provides videos, but still don't understand the idea behind design.
Maytag Neptune top load washers
Were designed to save water and do an excellent job cleaning clothing.
Unfortunately, like all automatic washers with slanted tubs or washing paddles, they tangled badly
Maytag originally patented a top load washer with horizontal paddles on both sides of the tub when they first were coming out with an automatic washer in the late 40s and never used this design till the Neptune Toploader was introduced.
36 gallons of water is a lot of water for a high-efficiency top load machine, however, it’s still less than half the water that a traditional top loading agitator machine would use.
That coupled with much less hot water usage and detergent usage 1/3 the electrical usage and much better water extraction still made it a pretty efficient machine
But it’s still uses twice the water of a good front load washer for the same size load and is much harder on the clothing.
Were designed to save water and do an excellent job cleaning clothing.
Unfortunately, like all automatic washers with slanted tubs or washing paddles, they tangled badly
Maytag originally patented a top load washer with horizontal paddles on both sides of the tub when they first were coming out with an automatic washer in the late 40s and never used this design till the Neptune Toploader was introduced.
36 gallons of water is a lot of water for a high-efficiency top load machine, however, it’s still less than half the water that a traditional top loading agitator machine would use.
That coupled with much less hot water usage and detergent usage 1/3 the electrical usage and much better water extraction still made it a pretty efficient machine
But it’s still uses twice the water of a good front load washer for the same size load and is much harder on the clothing.
windrivers
Well-known member
A full fill on a Speed Queen TC5 top load washer is 19 gallons, or 38 gallons for a full wash and rinse, a normal cycle. Only about 6% more, far from twice as much as 36 gallons as John claims.
I understand there are top loaders with larger tubs than the SQ, but I doubt many of them typically use twice as much as he claims.
From what I've seen here, John's figures almost always seem to be typos, misquotes, or just plain dishonest.
I understand there are top loaders with larger tubs than the SQ, but I doubt many of them typically use twice as much as he claims.
From what I've seen here, John's figures almost always seem to be typos, misquotes, or just plain dishonest.
36 gals is for wash and three rinses. Can a TC5 take a load of the same size?
<a style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; font-weight: 400;" name="start_92982.1180942"></a>
A full fill on a Speed Queen TC5 top load washer is 19 gallons
Did Speed Queen lower the water level with the TC5000 series washers? I thought it was in the low 20's at one time.
A full fill on a Speed Queen TC5 top load washer is 19 gallons
Did Speed Queen lower the water level with the TC5000 series washers? I thought it was in the low 20's at one time.
windrivers
Well-known member
I don't need three rinses in the TC5, and I find the volume adequate. I consider it a shortcoming if these "HE" machines need three rinses. Can John back up any of his claims?
My good old Maytag A606 uses 40 gallons on large, and no extra rinse is necessary. I suppose the Neptune would save hot water, but not much water overall.
Two rinses is standard on all Neptune TL cycles.
I ran two empty cycles yesterday to check what's the fill volume with no clothes. Wash level and low rinse is 4.3 to 4.5 gals. Final rinse is 9.4 to 9.6 gals, which also applies to all fills for the Bulky cycle.
The TC5 numbers are presumably for no clothes.
Maytag Neptune top load washer
The load size Glenn used would not fit into any Maytag dependable care washer ever made.
It would take closer to two loads and 80 gallons to wash and rinse it as well as the Neptune Toploader for that matter unless you went to extra rinses with a lot more water.
Try it yourself I own a Maytag Neptune Toploader and I’ve used every washing machine you guys are talking about
John
The load size Glenn used would not fit into any Maytag dependable care washer ever made.
It would take closer to two loads and 80 gallons to wash and rinse it as well as the Neptune Toploader for that matter unless you went to extra rinses with a lot more water.
Try it yourself I own a Maytag Neptune Toploader and I’ve used every washing machine you guys are talking about
John
ryner1988
Well-known member
The load size Glenn used would not fit into any Maytag dependable care washer ever made.
I'm sure it wouldn't. I owned a Maytag DC washer for a short while and this would make up two loads in that machine easily.
However, I've washed similar sized loads to this in my direct drive Whirlpool many times and have never had an issue.
This past week's towels load consisted of:
10 standard-size bath towels, 6 hand towels, 17 washcloths.
Some would say that was overloaded majorly, but it wasn't. It came to the very top of the tub but I did not have to pack it in or push anything down to make it all fit, and it gave me a perfectly smooth, balanced wash with good turnover. Dried in about and hour and 10 minutes on medium heat.
Ryne
I'm sure it wouldn't. I owned a Maytag DC washer for a short while and this would make up two loads in that machine easily.
However, I've washed similar sized loads to this in my direct drive Whirlpool many times and have never had an issue.
This past week's towels load consisted of:
10 standard-size bath towels, 6 hand towels, 17 washcloths.
Some would say that was overloaded majorly, but it wasn't. It came to the very top of the tub but I did not have to pack it in or push anything down to make it all fit, and it gave me a perfectly smooth, balanced wash with good turnover. Dried in about and hour and 10 minutes on medium heat.
Ryne
But would the load work in an HoH dryer?
It fit fine in my SmartLoad. Completely dry at Normal dryness level. I didn't directly pay attenion or time it but I'm sure it was less than an hour. I recall thinking "hmm, the dryer is already finished."
Neptune TL FAV6800 maximum spin is 850 RPM vs. AquaSmart being 1,000 (1,010).
windrivers
Well-known member
Two rinses is standard on all Neptune TL cycles.
And apparently a spray rinse is "standard" on the "normal" TC5 cycle. So a lot depends on how the user decides to use the machines and how others decide to skew the numbers.
And apparently a spray rinse is "standard" on the "normal" TC5 cycle. So a lot depends on how the user decides to use the machines and how others decide to skew the numbers.
speed queen perfect wash
How many gallons does it fill with on the highest settings on the perfect wash? This also applies for the heavy duty cycle.
How many gallons does it fill with on the highest settings on the perfect wash? This also applies for the heavy duty cycle.
windrivers
Well-known member
speed queen perfect wash
The Speed Queen TR series has the same capacity and apparently uses the same tub and basket, so until someone can verify, I assume a full fill would use substantially the same as the TC.
It still isn't clear to me exactly what the resource saving advantages are of the TR series. I know John has made the claim that, even though the TR has a motor that advertises twice the hp of the TC, it uses 1/4 the energy of the induction motor used in the TC. Even assuming he means for the same power output, it still doesn't seem to add up. (https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?92925_75 Reply 70)
As I recall, a typical induction motor has an efficiency rating well into the 90s which would seem to mean that the motor used in the TR would have to have an efficiency rating of over 360%, which I don't think stands up to reason or physics.
It must use less hot water by tempering the temperature as I understand that is supposed to be a big factor in energy use. Again, maybe others can verify.
The Speed Queen TR series has the same capacity and apparently uses the same tub and basket, so until someone can verify, I assume a full fill would use substantially the same as the TC.
It still isn't clear to me exactly what the resource saving advantages are of the TR series. I know John has made the claim that, even though the TR has a motor that advertises twice the hp of the TC, it uses 1/4 the energy of the induction motor used in the TC. Even assuming he means for the same power output, it still doesn't seem to add up. (https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?92925_75 Reply 70)
As I recall, a typical induction motor has an efficiency rating well into the 90s which would seem to mean that the motor used in the TR would have to have an efficiency rating of over 360%, which I don't think stands up to reason or physics.
It must use less hot water by tempering the temperature as I understand that is supposed to be a big factor in energy use. Again, maybe others can verify.
I don't think the TR series is considered a high-efficiency design and it's not marketed as such. The touted benefits are super-quiet operation, less fabric wear, and reliability of a simpler mechanism.
windrivers
Well-known member
Yet supposedly SQ's reason for the redesign was to meet increasing regulations, which makes me think they're somehow supposed to be more efficient. They're said to have brought the "classic" design back when they found a "loophole". I didn't say the TRs claimed to be HE.
stringent rules
So now that the rules are becoming more stringent in terms of water and electricity, what will Speed Queen do to their top load washers?
So now that the rules are becoming more stringent in terms of water and electricity, what will Speed Queen do to their top load washers?
IMO ...
The "loophole" for SQ TC is temperature restriction and reduced water usage via spray rinse instead of agitated rinse, on only the Normal/Eco cycle. The wash fill is still minimum 13 gallons (per 2019 info) for even one sock. The rinse restriction can be bypassed easily by selecting Extra Rinse. The added concession to regulations on the TRs, beyond the same temp and spray rinse on Normal/Eco as TC, is automatic water level sensing but it's not overly frugal per videos.
Consider that the Neptune TL dates back 20-ish years, early in the HE toploader curve. Calypso predates Neptune TL and is a better design. Very frugal for washing, generous for rinsing. I drained a similar whites load into my KitchenAid toploader years ago. It filled the KA to the rim of the basket, right up to the tub ring.
speed queen perfect wash cycles
Personally, I'd stay away from the normal eco cycle and stick with heavy duty.
Personally, I'd stay away from the normal eco cycle and stick with heavy duty.
In Australia, Speed Queen say their AWNE92 uses 31 gallons for a presumably full 19 lbs. load on the Normal Eco cycle, which includes a Spin-Spray rinse for 3:57 minutes.
if only the kinks in the calypso design would have been worked out, it is quite a cool concept and definitely very water frugal. not quite as good as any modern front loader i'd guess but likely better than many HE toploaders even today.
40.8 gals. Neptune TL, queen-size quilt, Bulky cycle, extra rinse, one interim spin skipped for balance failure, spray on final spin skipped (tap purposely turned off). 10.2 gals average per each of wash and three rinses.
bpetersxx
Well-known member
not really sure what the consumption is
Hope somebody knows
here is eye candy not really sure why it is small
Hope somebody knows
here is eye candy not really sure why it is small
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