HE Toploader Water Usage

[DADoES]

 
This topic is largely aimed at GELaundry4Ever/Jerome but everyone surely can participate.  I recently bought a digital water meter device which attaches to a faucet and records the volume of water that passes through.

I ran a moderate-size load this evening in one of my HE toploaders, a Fisher & Paykel AquaSmart (the one I picked up from Kirk Rivas).  Four pairs of cargo shorts, two boxer shorts, one shirt, one small bath towel (used as a rag-towel), and sixteen briefs/underwear.  Normal cycle which operates only in eco wash mode but I selected a deep/softener rinse (no softener used!).

What is your reasonable (no eco-outrage, please) guess as to:

1) Gallons of water for the Eco Active pretreatment phase (fabric saturation and recirculation period).

2) Total gallons of water in the eco wash after fill is completed (Eco Active + top-off fill).

3) Gallons total for the three spin-sprays.

4) Gallons for the deep rinse.

5) Add those figures for the total of the complete cycle.

I'll post on Tue 3/28 the numbers I recorded.

 

[combo52]

Total Water Use

I would guess around 24 gallons.

 

Hi Glenn, Post a picture etc of the water meter you got.

 

John 

 

[gelaundry4ever]

no eco outrage reasonable

1. It doesn't get your clothes clean. All it does is spread dirt around. 2. It leaves dry spots, again not enough water. 3. rinsing is horrible with shower rinses, forcing you to use deep rinse and that's even questionable. 4. There are no spray rinses during high speed spin before deep rinse, leaving soap in the clothes. Bottom line: You cannot wash a full load of clothes in just a bucket of water. That's how much these "eco" machines use. They use far more water because you have to run loads several times to get what you would with old washers. Speed Queen is the only one that gets your clothes clean when you use heavy duty because it uses the right amount of water during wash and rinse. I'm sure Maytag85 would agree as far as older washers and speed queen tc5 washers are concerned. I just want clean clothes.

 

[drummerboy928]

Water Usage

I have no idea as to the extent of the High Efficiency of these machines, but i’m going to guess in total, it’s probably around 18 gallons total.

In terms of actual cleaning ability, these F&P aquasmart are absolutely amazing machines. The “Eco Active” (if i recall correctly) is very similar to the “catalyst” phase on the catalyst machines. Despite being an impeller machine, they throw clothes around like you would not believe. I would definitely own one of these if I could find an affordable one in good condition.

 

[henene4]

Gonna approximate that guess via liters

1) The load appears to be medium - small ish for a F&P machine of more current generation.
I would guess 8lbs - so probably about 2gal for saturation.
Maybe 3gal in total.

2) Since this is a floating tub design, it will probably need slightly more water for the agitation period than a mode shifter design might.
I would guess 8gal after the full fill - maybe more, maybe less.

3) The sprays might be between half a gallon to a gallon each.

4) The deep rinse might take slightly less than the main fill. So, 6-7gal?

5) That should be between 16 and 18gal in total. Less than 70l, basically

However, this appears to be a rather small load.

I don't think that - on HE mode - it could use much more than 25-30gal even when packed full.

The Australian versions are rated at up to 10kg, 22lbs and uses 102l - that's 26ish gallons.

That is for a load consisting of:
- 4 double sheets
- 8 bath towels
- 3 table cloths
- 4 shirts
- each 6 T-Shirts, pillow cases and shorts
- 4 wash cloths
- 2 handkerchiefs.
Regular cycle with only spray rinses (but more of them).

So I guess 30gal for an HE wash and deep rinse tops, and about half that for a small loaf makes sense.

Keep in mind though - the EU had compact FLs that could wash and triple rinse with the same water usage per kg - 20+ years ago.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Fun game!

My estimate:

 

1. Pretreat phase:       3 gallons

2. Total for wash:       10 gallons

3. Spray rinses total: 3 gallons

4. Deep rinse:             8 gallons

5. Total: 24 gallons.  This is equivalent to 90 litres or approximately eighteen thousand thimblefuls of water LOL.  It would seem that my total also just happens to be the same as John's total.  If we're both right, do we split the prize money between us?!

 

Mark

 

 

 

[gelaundry4ever]

HE topload washer

So why are there so many complaints on these washers?

 

[henene4]

People always complain about things when they are different.

Reality doesn't matter once one has an opinion.

@mark

5ml for thimble actually sounds realistic.
Impressed!

 

[Marky_Mark]

Hey Henrik

 

Yes ha ha I thought I ought to use the "thimbleful" measurement, as this is a common unit used to express the water consumption of HE washers LOL.

 

[pierreandreply4]

if i look at my curent daily driver

if i look at my current Maytag washer (top load) my only complaint is one if i use another cycle other than quick wash (46 minute 57 minute if big load) it takes 2 hours to wash my second complaint is the clean cycle with afresh and the fact that on rinse (*clean washer cycle it sometime leaks) witch leads to my question why did they not keep the option of mechanical timers or classic machines that where pull to start the load push to stop and whats the advantage of a deep wash fill option when there already auto sense for the load?

 

[logixx]

Due to its height, it looks like it's being squished between those pillars.

I noticed the Sanitize cycle is one that needs oxi. I also had to laugh at his "a full-sized load... of 10 pounds" statement. Not quite sure what to think of GE being able to track how much time passes between the end of the cycle and the user opening the door. With connected everything, it's not surprising - but I was a little surprised nonetheless.

Will be interesting to see how this unit performs.

 

[tomdawg]

Eco active - 1.5 gallons
Wash phase 7 gallons
Spray rinse total 1.5 gallons
Deep fill rinse 8 gallons
18 total
I’m probably far off, but I have a fisher paykel agitator version and it didn’t use much more water.

 

[wayupnorth]

My 1984 Maytag LA511 uses 20 gallons on Small and 40 gallons per load on Extra Large. I only use Ex large loads, about 1 every week. Just like I only run the dishwasher with a full load maybe once a week. Use your Cascade every night I am not wasting extra detergent. Dishwashers used to be known as the hide a dirty dish and thats what I do.

 

[DADoES]

 

 

[DADoES]

 
Question for Jerome:  What size in gallons is your bucket for washing a full load of clothes in an HE toploader?

 

[gelaundry4ever]

answer to dadoes

Try doing a full basket of sorted laundry in an HE Cabrio or Bravos or any other machine. Trust me, they leave your clothes dirty with that stupid wash plate. I've seen videos of them in action. The only good washer is speed queen.

 

[DADoES]

 
Jerome, you're not answering the questions.  You haven't stated any specific numbers for your expectation on gallons of the cycle phases for the load I ran, or your bucket reference.  Is it a 2 gallon bucket?  5 gallons?  10 gallons?

 

[gelaundry4ever]

bucket reference

If you try doing a full load of laundry in an HE washer, you'll only get a bucketful of water, which is not enough for a giant load of everyday cottons. Say a 5 gallon bucket. It never works! Just search the web and you will find hundreds and thousands of complaints on these washers! They leave your clothes dirty![this post was last edited: 3/26/2023-18:55]

 

[luxflairguy]

Jerome! You need to start proving what you preach! And stop bashing every brand and washing action yo don't like! It shows a lack of maturity and respect!

 

[ea56]

I owned a Whirlpool Cabrio and I had no problem with how it cleaned at all. It filled with more than 5 gals of water and surprisingly moved the clothes around pretty well too. The problem I had with this machine, and it was a deal breaker for me was that it would unbalance on loads with jeans and towels, but there was no signal that it had become unbalanced. Instead the washer would refill with rinse water and attempt to balance the load, which it would never manage to do. It would go through this exercise of futility, over, and over and over again until I noticed something was wrong and manually rebalanced the load.

My washer is upstairs and before I noticed this problem happening every time I washed a load of towels and jeans it took over 2 hours for the load to finish and I only realized why after I did some investigation and monitored the machine when it went into the spin-drain after the wash portion of the cycle. So from then on I had to race up the stairs every time I washed a load of jeans and towels when the first spin-drain was supposed to begin. If I’d wanted to babysit a washing machine I’d have a wringer washer and get a weeks worth of laundry done in 60-75 mins of hands on work.

That GD Cabrio was one of the worst washers I ever owned, but not because it didn’t clean well, but because is wasted water and my time. I was thrilled to see it leave our home forever.

The washer that I did own that didn’t use an adequate amount of water was an LG FL, and that was the WORST washer I ever owned! The normal cycle would wash for 24 mins with only about 2” of water in the bottom of the tub. A full load of wash never became saturated with water during the wash portion of the cycle. And as if if that wasn’t bad enough, this machine REFUSED to go into a spin with heavy towels, it would literally run for 2+ hours and never spin, just endlessly hunt for that “sweet spot” to begin the spin, but it never found it. I wouldn’t have an LG washer if you gave it to me and paid me to use it! J-U-N-K!!!!

Eddie
[this post was last edited: 3/26/2023-17:36]

 

[gelaundry4ever]

maytag reviews

Here's an example.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/maytag-washers-and-dryers.html?page=30

 

[murando531]

I’m currently rebuilding a Bravos XL (Oasis), coincidentally the exact MVWB880 model I owned that I sold to my aunt before the current Duet Alpha. I have one part coming Monday and it’ll be completely finished (fingers crossed), with a brand new bearing and seal pack, and even a new set of feet. I’ll be doing a couple of test runs in the garage before even considering it coming into the house, but I’ll be letting it drain into a 5-gal bucket and washing at least one 8-ish pound mixed load, so I’ll try to remember to tally the water usage then.

We used to have a Flume sensor on our meter that measured water use down to the 1/10th gallon, but sadly the county updated our meters to fully electronic models that the Flume is no longer compatible with. I did keep a few cycle charts for both the front loader and the WTW4855 agipeller washer I had for a short time, but I’d have to find where I put them. The top load of course used a little more water, but not by much, definitely not comparing to a traditional machine. I’m expecting the Oasis should fall somewhere in between.

 

[littlegreeny]

1) 2 gallons for pretreatment phase

2) 8 gallons of water in the eco wash after fill is completed (Eco Active + top-off fill).

3) 3 gallons total for the three spin-sprays.

4) 6 gallons for the deep rinse.

About 17 gallons total.

 

[DADoES]

 
28.8 gallons for the full cycle.  Jerome eventually referenced a 5-gallon bucket.  So that's a little more than five-and-a-half buckets.

1) Gallons of water for the Eco Active pretreatment phase (fabric saturation and recirculation period).   5.8

2) Total gallons of water in the eco wash after fill is completed (Eco Active + top-off fill).   5.8 eco + 3.7 to basket float = 9.5

3) Gallons total for the three spin-sprays.   1.6 + 1.6 + 1.5 = 4.7

4) Gallons for the deep rinse.   8.8 to basket float + 5.8 top-off = 14.6 (photo 1)

5) Add those figures for the total of the complete cycle.   9.5 wash + 4.7 sprays + 14.6 agitated rinse = 28.8 (photo 2)

I didn't get meter photos for the eco wash and sprays.

 

[lakewebsterkid]

EcoActive

I figured it would use more water ~4-5 gallons because it does not spin and pull the water through the clothes like the Bravos/Cabrio machines do. So there needs to be a decent amount of water in the bottom of the tub as well.
If figured top off would be about 10 gallons as well.
I am shocked that the spray rinses use as much water as that. I do know that in certain machines you can increase the amount of water that is used in spray rinses.

Personally, in the MVWC565 we are using right now, on the Normal cycle, it will use at least 2 gallons of water at the end of the wash to merely 'rinse' the top of the load off before spinning. The spray rinse is probably 5 gallons or so. It really doesn't make sense why they wouldn't do a 7 gallon spray rinse or attempt to do a deep fill rinse. Some of these machines are downright odd.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Ok that's interesting, Glenn.  Thanks for getting back to us with the answer!  Did you happen to take any photos during the cycle of the wash and rinse levels?

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

These are the energy usage stickers on mine:

— Dave

 

[windrivers]

What's the point? To show that some "HE" washers really don't save resources? That at least one "HE" washer washes well, but needs a lot of water to do so? Or just to tweak Jerome because he makes generalizations you don't agree with?

 

[johnb300m]

Jerome your Consumer Affairs link is out of date. Those are reviews from 2017 the most recent. It’s 3 months into 2023.
There have been improvements, and even back then those TLs weren’t that bad.
Try checking some emotion at the door and let some data in.
Anecdotally, I know of 4 people who have agipeller TLs of various ages. 3 Maytags and 1 LG.
All 4 of them are liked by their owners totally fine. They’re not inclined to get online and complain.
None of them are walking around with dirty clothes!
If they were, I WOULD hear about it.

In fact, if anything, these top loaders are becoming MORE popular.
I’ve noticed that at my two local Home Depot’s, the front load options are dwindling. And the top load section has doubled in size.
I even asked one of the sales ladies this past weekend.
She says the top loaders have surged in popularity the past few years. LG and Maytag are the two most common. The new GEs are gaining ground too, with their good price/features package on their new Profile models.
You may hate them! But the buying public for wherever reason, is swarming to impeller top loaders.
They clean fine. I don’t see anyone around me with stains all over their clothes or reeking of BO.
www.getoveryourself.com.

 

[ea56]

Manufactures Need to Start Building Medium Size FL’s Again

My space that is dedicated for the laundry is in a closet with bi-fold doors. In order to be able to close the doors the washer and dryer can’t require more than about 28”to29” in depth. This puts most of the full size FL’s out of the question for many buyers. I don’t want to remove these bi-fold doors and hang a freakin’ curtain over the opening to conceal the WD when they aren’t in use.

I believe the reason most of the new full size FL’s are so deep is because they are all mostly 4.5 cu ft in capacity or more. Why? They are really too large for most users that like to sort their loads. Why can’t manufactures offer 3 to 3.5 cu ft capacity FL’s like in the past? I think if they did lots of us that have dedicated laundry closets with limited depth would purchase FL’s again.

The smaller 2 to 2.4 cu ft FL’s are just a bit too small for the average user. And the 3.5 cu ft Speed Queen FL is just to expensive for most buyers.

Eddie