Help organize Sarah’s mid century kitchen

[sarahperdue]

Hi Everyone,

I think I’ve got the floor plan for the kitchen. Please let me know what you think.

Also, please help me decide what goes where—dishes, coffee, cookware, etc.

Thanks,
Sarah

 

[maytagbear]

Is there

a heat proof surface, other than the oven door, to land hot items? It saves the oven hinges!

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[sarahperdue]

Lawrence,

I have two built in Corningware counter savers. My master carpenter and I went down to the house today and worked on the layout. We had to make some changes. I wanted counter space next to the oven, but I haven’t figured out how to do it. For the moment, the cooktop is to the right of the ovens, and there is nothing to the left.

I will post a picture of the new plan soon. It’s challenging working with both the small space and existing cabinets. There are definitely places where being able to customize cabinets to the space would have helped a lot.

 

[sarahperdue]

The latest

Here’s the latest plan

 

[mattl]

I seem to recall a much larger cooktop in earlier discussions.  Did you change it out for a smaller unit?

 

Plan looks pretty good, one issue that bothers me a bit is the peninsula not lining up with the end of the cabinets on the sink wall, may be a non issue.

 

[combo52]

New [ Vintage ] Plan

It is looking good, it looks like a really fun kitchen to work in.

 

I love the two vintage refs at either sides of the kitchen as there will always be someone that wants something from the ref and they won't have to get in the middle of things to grab a soda etc.

 

The island not lining up with the sink line of base cabinets actually looks much better than if it was lined up.

 

Having the wall oven next to the CT is also fine, items can be taken from the oven and either set on an extra element or on one of your Corning Savers. [ Note : setting hot items on an open door will not hurt the hinges, but you have a FD oven anyway, LOL, however you could use the shorter lower oven door if you liked, it is almost strong enough to stand on. ]

 

 

Putting the GE Kitchen Combo on the same side as the sink is a much better place for from a plumbing perspective, also having it on that side you will not to worry about the spin vibration causing a cake to fall as it might if it is next to the WO, LOL.

 

John L.

 

[mattl]

While the sketch looks good, I guess I'm spoiled- I'd like to see a 3D rendering.  I've designed a good number of kitchens and that tool really does help with visualizations.  You might want to go to HD with a rough sketch and have your layout worked up with a basic white flat door cabinet.  Of course they can't include a wall fridge in the sketch, but some basic cabinets will give you a decent idea.

 

[sarahperdue]

Doubts...

I'm very pleased with the current plan but fretting about cabinet space. My current kitchen is pretty small, and I'm not sure I've ended up with the same amount of cabinet space in the country house kitchen.

I'm messing about with the latest plan a bit but hoping I won't end up making major changes. I'm thinking about stacking two wall cabinets with counter in between to the left of the ovens. They will be behind the door, but I'm hoping the 12" depth won't interfere too much. Thoughts?

A more radical possibility is to move the combo to the peninsula, put the ovens on the east wall where the combo is now and put 12" base cabinet and an 18.5" pantry where the ovens are now. I'm not sure I like this idea.

Sarah

 

[sarahperdue]

3D

MattL

Thanks for the suggestion. I have a basic 3D app and have messed around with it using the geometric feature to create boxes and rectangles for things like the wall fridge. I wasn't in love with the app, but I might give it another go. An advantage to having the cabinets there on site is that we have been able to drag them around and go back and forth between the kitchen and the cabinets. That's helped a lot with visualizing how it's going to look.

Using already made cabinets has it's own set of challenges. While I'm happy that I'm doing the metal cabinets, it would definitely be easier to create the cabinets to fit the space.

Once again, I'm doing things the hard--but fun way.

Sarah

 

[mattl]

I forgot you had that neat little kit- it really helps.  Being that the 'north' wall is mostly fridge I agree there is a lack of upper storage.  What cabinets do you have left to work with? If you hung uppers over the peninsula  it will really close in the space, but give you needed storage.  Hard decisions, but you are having fun with it.  Glad it's all coming together!

 

[chachp]

Great kitchen.

 

<span style="font-family: 'book antiqua', palatino; font-size: 14pt;">Sarah, it looks really good.  You must be having such a good time with this.  Did you ever decide on your color scheme?</span>

 

[sarahperdue]

A matter of inches

I've realized that my plan has the 18" deep wall fridge butting flush against the 12" deep corner cabinet. I'm not sure this is going to look right, but I still want the curved cabinet between the right side of the fridge and the door.

What do y'll think about adding a 3" spacer between the corner cabinet and wall fridge? Should it be more? Do you have other ideas?

Thanks,
Sarah

 

[mattl]

Yes, visually the 3" spacer helps.  I would not do any more, perhaps less since visually the cabinets should line up, you're pushing the end of the fridge over part of the curved corner unit.  Might want to try 1 1/2" filler...

 

[mattl]

Just a thought- not related to the fridge, what if you moved the ovens to the end of the sink wall and put the smaller cabinet from there by the cooktop.  In my experience you need space on each side of the cooktop.  The height of the wall ovens might serve to anchor the end and visually tie in a bit with the Americana on the other wall.

 

[sarahperdue]

Moving the ovens

Hi Matt,

Is this what you mean? Except instead of swapping the ovens with the item at the end of the sink wall, which is a 30” GE combination washer/dryer, I’d move the combo to the peninsula and move a 30” cabinet from the peninsula to the left of the cooktop.

I think I like this idea.

Regarding the wall fridge, I just remembered that the 68” install measurements already include 2” of clearance space on either side. I don’t think I’ll need the 2” on the right side because the curved upper cabinet is 6” shallower than the fridge.

Thanks tons!
Sarah

 

[mattl]

You got it.  Play around with that and see how it works for you. Sorry I don't recall all the details of what you have to work with so I'm just working off your sketches.

 

When I did kitchen design I liked to move stuff around on the computer and then look at the renderings.  There were a few times stuff that looked good onn paper just didn't work once you looked at it.  I always liked going through the catalogs and working in unusual pieces. You definitely have a few of those, can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[sarahperdue]

Take 23

I think I like this new arrangement. I can use my built-in counter savers--one will fit to the right of the ovens and the other will fit on the counter to the left of the cooktop.

I've been planning to have the three turquoise appliances, white cabinets, dishwasher, ice maker and combo with the stainless cooktop and hood paired with red linoleum countertops and a grey linoleum floor with a turquoise accent strip around the perimeter. I'm beginning to think it would be warmer to use a coral/orange instead of the red. Also, I have a floor that I think is heart pine in the wing I'm planning to deconstruct. I'm thinking about using it for the kitchen floor if there is enough.

I'll add the picture in a second message from my phone.

Thanks, as always, for your enthusiasm and help,
Sarah

 

[sarahperdue]

The latest

Here’s the drawing

 

[mattl]

I like the fact that when you come in the door on the south wall you are not walking into a large "box".

 

Not knowing the rest of the site lines I'm not sure what the other openings lead to so unsure if this layout impacts other things.

 

Got to say the updated layout feels "right" to me FWIW.

 

[114jwh]

Hi Sarah

Really love your ideas for a retro kitchen!

I'd be hesitant though on having the dishwasher and ovens within a walk-through space. If you think about it, a 32" space isn't a lot of room and when you have the dishwasher or oven open, its going to block access through this walkway. Loading or unloading the dishwasher or cleaning the oven requires them to be open for longer periods of time.

Maybe I'm visualizing this wrong though? Is it 32" with the dishwasher fully open or closed?

I really love the idea of a red countertop but I know what you mean though. Had you thought about maybe doing a grey countertop, like the grey cracked ice and then a different color with the floor using the VCT. Like a cream color with red accent VCT tiles here and there?

 

[combo52]

Kitchen Design

Hi Sarah, I would leave the combo in line with the sink as it is much easier to hook up, it is also less noisy on an outside wal;.

 

You only need  a 24" wide cabinet for the FD wall oven, although if you want to use a 27" wide cabinet you can change out the FD when it becomes unserviceable and put in a vintage GE P-7 double oven.

 

I love the idea of coral-orange over red.

 

John L.

 

[vacbear58]

Updates

Hi again Sarah,

Its certainly coming on, but I would like to suggest a couple more tweaks to your design.

I would be concerned about the placement of your cook top for a few reasons:
Firstly its a long way from the sink for draining pans.
Secondly, does the door to the right of the GE wall fridge form a thoroughfare through to other parts of the house via either of the doors by the Americana? If so, the placement could be dangerous if you are carrying hot pans across the kitchen and someone is rushing through.
Third, if the wall behind the current position is an internal wall you are going to have to have one heck of a long duct from the hood to the outside.
And finally I am thinking of your poor feet as you have to go back and forth while preparing a meal.

Fortunately I think the solution is simple:

Swap the positions of the fridge and the cooktop - if I recall correctly you had the cooktop there before. Actually, it will be quite easy to do as your base under the cook top is 33" and you have two cabinets under the fridge one of 18" and one of 15". If you place the 15" next to the 30" base you should have three doors of the same size which will help the look of it all. i would suggest it might be best to arrange them from the door 18" 30" and 15" (the arrangement of these two depending on whether the 15" door hinges on the left or the right) and then on to the corner cabinet.

The cooktop and base will fit right in where the two cabinets come out and I think you will be able to use the 30" wall cabinet to the left of the hood - this will avoid the need for a filler piece although you may still choose to use a smaller one to help align the cabinets wall and base - as I read it the wall space to fill is 69" (64" fridge + 5" filler) which are being replaced by a combined length of 66" - it will also work a lot better with the wall quadrant you want at the end of the run.

The fridge can then go on the wall where you are currently showing the cooker hood but in this case you do not need a filler although you might choose to have one so the left edge of the fridge aligns with the left of the base cabinet.

I would strongly agree with John L that the combo is should NOT be in the peninsula. Aside from his comments, it would be unwise to "fix" a layout with an appliance you have no means of knowing how long will last. Much better, if you have one, would be to replace it with a 30" cabinet (or even slightly smaller which would help address the issue someone mentioned above regarding the clearance for the dishwasher door) - and of course - more storage! If you agree with this I think you should revisit the idea of having a small sink by the ice machine, which I think you had in an earlier iteration. This will make the area under the fridge much more useful as a secondary preparation area and indeed with the likes of an electric frypan or portable hot plate (dare I say induction) which can be put away after use it could be a complete second cooking centre. Indeed, now I think of it, you could even have something like a classic GE wall oven mounted under the counter instead of a cabinet (which is a very common practice in modern kitchens) would would make a wonderful baking centre. Well food for thought at least.

I think the space to the left of your oven has a window and I think you mentioned putting a love seat or something of the kind there. I would suggest that would be a good space for the combo so that you have the flexibility to replace that at some time in the future with an alternative. Note that if you have a suspended floor you will need some reinforcement under the combo to help deal with the vibrations as it spins - it will need to be a great deal less by a wall (where the joists under the floor are supported) than right in the centre of the room - a thickish piece of waterproof ply under the combo should be sufficient. Finish off with a smaller chair or even a stool that has a back on it. I cannot tell the scale but there might be space for a shallow shelf at counter top height which, combined with a stool could make a small nook for writing lists or, if its not heresy in this kitchen, using a lap top or tablet. You could also sit to look out the window rather than back into the room, much as I am sure you relish the thought of enjoying the sight of all your hard work.

Finally, do please find a space inside a cabinet where you can tuck in a small microwave oven which will not be seen when the door is shut. I appreciate you are having a vintage kitchen but with a family I think it would be very useful, they might not share your enthusiasm and appreciation for everything vintage once they have to use it.

I hope this helps, that you for sharing this project with us - I also loved the little scale cabinets you showed us, I would have loved something like that when I was a child, I would still in my 60s!

Good luck

Al

 

[sarahperdue]

Arrangements...

John, Matt, everyone,

I'd be lost without you guys...

My appliance problem is all Kelly's fault. That first model 12 Mixmaster was a gateway drug to Coffeemasters, toasters, roaster ovens and eventually steel cabinets. And you people, it's entirely your fault that I absolutely have to have a 30" laundry appliance in a kitchen the size of a postage stamp. And I love you all. I wish Kelly was here to help sort this out. He'd be having so much fun.

Ok, John, your reasons for keeping the combo on the outside wall and not having the ovens and dishwasher in the path are really, really good ones... I'm definitely going to give it a good think, but in all other aspects, this is the best plan so far. And, yes, it's 33" inches with the dishwasher and oven doors closed.

I have a 28" Geneva cabinet that is designed to house the ovens. I like the cabinet, and it does give me some space flexibility if I need to change the ovens out. On the plus side, the French doors and small lower oven on the Frigidaire will be a smaller intrusion on the path than a P7 or other standard double oven.

So, how tall is the door on a Hobart KDS Superba? Hopefully not as tall as the Bosh I have in the Tuscaloosa house.

Now, John, this is really scary: "you can change out the FD when it becomes unserviceable" When?? How fragile is this beast?

Regarding the combo in the peninsula-- Is it possible to add some sound dampening insulation or coating to it while you are working on it?

Hook ups and plumbing aren't big issues because the subfloor is coming up because there is rot and termite damage that needs to be addressed. We will be doing all of the kitchen plumbing at that time and installing a PEX manifold so that the house plumbing can be turned on and off by zone/location should a problem arise.

And, yep, I get just how small 33" is. Thursday, I went down and dragged the cabinets into position to get an idea of space. I'll be lucky to have room for a card table and four chairs in the middle of the kitchen. While small, the 33" passage seems simply palatial compared to the original 2' door between the peninsula and the Americana.

Sarah

 

[spacepig]

I can't help much with configuration, but my vote is for red countertops. We went with something different for the main house, but we will be putting in red countertops in the caretaker's cottage. Cabinets will be white, fridge is a white (but now off white due to age) GE combination, and the stove is a turquoise GE Americana.

Can't wait to see your kitchen when it's finished. It's going to be fabulous!

 

[sarahperdue]

Brilliant!

Thank you, Al,

The back wall is the one place I didn't think about putting the wall fridge. I like it.

The combo really can't go to the left of the ovens because that window extends below counter height. So, what do you think about having it on the south wall between the cooktop and the corner? That gets it out of the peninsula and against an outside wall. We're using rock wool insulation which should help dampen the sound. Really, I should let go of the combo, but I just don't want to...

It isn't on the drawing yet, but I'm hoping an 18" wall cabinet + curved glass shelves will fit between the window and ovens. I've drawn in the curved shelves on the right side of the sink.

Maybe I should post a poll-- combo yes or no?

Alas, the spot for the loveseat is now occupied by the Americana. It was a casualty of the great mis-measuring fiasco that forever banished the wall fridge from the space between the windows. So, now, I think the best I can hope for is a comfy chair by the window.

This rearrangement swaps the 30" combo in the peninsula for a 24" cabinet and increases the path from 33" to 39." I think that's a good thing.

Regarding microwaves--we haven't had one since our last one died about 15 years ago. Since then, I've upgraded our everyday dinner ware to Corning Centura, so a microwave might be downright dangerous. You have reminded me that I need a spot for the Toast-R-Oven. I have a Corningware Electromatic skillet. It, despite the misleading name, is a thermostatically controlled hotplate. I do a lot of cooking in Corningware, and I have Farberware with the aluminum clad bottom, so induction isn't a great fit for my cookware.

I like the idea of bringing back the bar sink, but I'm too tired to figure out where to put it now.

So, here's the latest drawing--not in color this time. I'm off to bed.

Tremendous thanks for all of your help.
Sarah

 

[mattl]

I think this latest iteration works quite well.  Feels like a lot of counter space and a good flow.  The glass cabinet sounds great, hope it fits..

 

[sarahperdue]

Glass cabinet...

Would actually be a standard metal cabinet with curved glass shelves on the window side.

Let me see if I can find a picture... here are two.

I'm also curious about suspended glass shelves. I'm planning to use a short 18" upper cabinet above the peninsula and think it would be awesome to have a glass shelf underneath for wine glasses and such. It also occurs to me as I type that it might be a good idea to reverse the 24" cabinet in the peninsula or the short upper so that is opens to the Americana side since I'm thinking the drinks will be in the Americana outside of the main kitchen flow.

Sarah

 

[bradfordwhite]

ambitious project

 

I feel silly offering this because I don't know all of what you're dealing with on that house.

 

I'm seeing a traffic flow that cuts through the working area of the kitchen.  Also, two corners which are typically wasted space because it's difficult to access those deep corners.

 

If it were me, I'd simplify by putting all or most of the cabinets in a row on one wall.  This gets rid of wasted corners and countertop miters.  It also eliminates passing traffic in the kitchen from getting in the way of the cook.  The GE wall frig would practically be an accent right in the middle of the end wall with 12" storage cabinets below and a rounded decorative floor to ceiling cabinet on the end, possibly on both sides if space allows.  This would also allow space for a table in the kitchen, or a couch, or other appliances.

 

OR 

 

create a "U shaped kitchen.  This will still eliminate the traffic flow from interfering with the cook and the corner cabinet would be usable from the other side.  You could also gain a sit at counter with knee space for stools at the peninsula.  

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[mattl]

Got ya on the glass shelves.  Those could easily be made up at a glass shop.  I was picturing a cabinet with a curved glass door, duh...

 

[sarahperdue]

No silly ideas

Hi Keith,

Thank you for putting so much thought into your suggestions and drawing them. Alas, I don’t have room for either. With the straight line design, I’d have to sacrifice the window to the left of the cooktop. I love the U shaped design but there are only 36” between the windows over the sink and the 3rd window—not enough room for my ovens and the peninsula. The kitchen is really very small. My grandmother had her fridge on the back wall, so it is a familiar work flow and a pretty tight work triangle.

On the bright side, the corners that appear to be wasted are actually Geneva’s version of lazy susans. They called it “Merry-Go-Round,” and it’s pretty neat. The cabinet doors rotate with the round shelves. I think they are easier to access than the modern ones with the fold out doors.

Again, thanks so much for your ideas. I have had a fantasy about living in a tiny house, but the challenges of getting everything I want in this space has been a reality check!

Sarah