help with a capacitor for a rollermatic washer please

[rollermatic]

this capacitor is off my 1965 rollermatic model wcda-65. one of the terminals broke off causing the washer not to start up in either spin or agitate mode. when I bypass the capacitor the motor starts fine which tells me that the faulty capacitor is the problem.

this washer must have the capacitor wired in series with the starting winding for it's spin mode. it was one of the first rollermatics and used the type of clutch that did no slipping under normal use. the motor is directly coupled to the tub thru the rollers and as the tub builds up speed so does the motor. it takes about 17 seconds for the motor to gain enough speed for it's starting windings to cut out under normal use.

I thought about soldering a new terminal (or wire) onto the capacitor but there is also oil that keeps oozing out the top, I'm assuming the capacitor must be replaced.

I could change out the clutch with one I have from a later model that used the slip type clutch allowing the motor to start immediately and gradually bring the tub up to full speed thru the action of the clutch. I have one but it goes to another rollermatic I am in the process of restoring (a thread on that restore will be posted soon). plus I would like to keep this machine working as it was originally designed.

the capacior is a delco 125 volt that says it is 124 mfd. it's about 3 inches long and 1 1'4 inches wide.

I understand basically what a capacitor does but do not know what 124 mfd means. nor do I have the first clue as to where to find a new one that will work.

any help from you appliance pros will be greatly appreciated.

 

[rollermatic]

another

pic

thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Unimatic1140]

124 mfd means 124 microfarad, something like this should work...

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[rollermatic]

thank you robert

I was on e bay myself (now) and saw a few of them at 124-149 mfd at 120 volts. that was my next question, would one rated at 124-149 be okay to use?!

I also did a quick look up of what mfd means but again I'm not big on electronics. I know a capacitor stores electricity so I'm assuming it stores the current instead of sending it directly into the delicate starting windings that would burn up by being energized for as long as they are during spin mode on these machines.

again thanks, I will order one of these. eventually if I run across a clutch somewhere that is the slipping type (forget the actual name of them) I will change that clutch out. I know it's gotta be easier on both the motor and the roller transmission to have the clutch bring the tub up to speed rather than the motor. but I just love watching it spin and waiting all that time to hear the start windings finally kick out!

3 of my machines are 1965 models and have this non slip clutch and capacitor on them. the other 3 are later models with no capacitor.

any other info by anyone would be appreciated.

and joe from Columbus, if you see this, I got your text but was unable to return it due that my cell phone is junk! I did try to call you and I do have a kds-17 available. I need to thin out my supply here anyway!

 

[vacosaurus]

The 124/149 mfd should work fine. Those electrolytic capacitors vary some what as far as actual capacity. When you replace a capacitor you should never use one with a smaller Mfd. value or smaller voltage value. Bill,

 

[philr]

Pete, does your WCI-65 have only one capacitor with 3 terminals and two ratings or does it have two separate capacitors? Mine has two separate capacitors mounted in the rear cover but I think it might have been a mid-1966 change (my WCI-65's cabinet and mechanism are from a 1966 WCIAK) or a later replacement as both my 1965 and 1966 Tech Talks show a single capacitor with two ratings.

 

This is the more complicated style as early Rapidry models had a switch linked to the high speed roller and solenoid that switched the MFD rating.

 

Also, I'll email you about dishwashers...

 

[tolivac]

For motor starting on single phase 120V/240V the start capacitor works in conjunction with the motor start winding and centrifical switch to create a phase shift in the AC current going into the motor-The phase shift creates the twisting magnetic feild to get the motors rotor to start turning-once it gets to 75% of the motors rated speed the centrifical switch disconnects the start winding and cap from the circuit.The motor then works from the run winding alone.17 sec sounds like an abnormally long start cycle-in this amount of time BOTH the start cap and motor winding can overheat-unless the motor maker and cap maker says its OK.Could something in the washer mechanism be causing this long cycle-like something needs lubing or replacing.Its putting an abnormal drag on the motor as its trying to start-this is probably what caused the cap to fail.Start caps are for intermittent duty only-Often on the cap package they are rated in so many starts per hour.The 124-149 Uf value should be an OK replacement-exact values aren't required here.Graingers and most well stocked appliance shops carry motor start caps.3 Ph motors don't need start caps,windings,or start switches-the 3 ph creates the twisting feild already so the motor can start.

 

[philr]

The start windings can be energized quite a long time on these washers as their motors take a long time getting to full speed when they're starting to spin a tub that's full of water. The "impact clutch" or "safety clutch" used on early Rollermatics didn't allow much or any slippage in normal operating conditions...

 

Later Rollermatic and 1-18 models have a "Sure Spin" clutch and this one allows some slippage for easier motor starting (that allowed to eliminate the large start capacitors used in pre-1967 Frigidaire washers). 

 

[rollermatic]

thanks for the input

phil,my custom imperial machine has the capacitor with 3 leads, as you said it switches when the machine is in high speed rapidry mode. but this machine is a custom deluxe with no rapidry, so it has only one capacitor with 2 leads.my 3rd 1965 model is also a non rapidry modelso it has a two wire capacitor.

I have the service manual on all of the 1965 model rollermatics, I downloaded it from this site about 5 years ago. looking thru all the wiring schematics yesterday I saw none that listed a two capacitor machine, at least for 1965.

my other machines are all later models that use a slip type clutch and have no capacitors at all.

tolivac, the washer has always worked perfectly since I got it in 2009,it was my first rollermatic. there is no binding or unusual drag, it purrs like a kitten! bearings are great, very free and smooth turning tub. it just takes it a while to get up to full speed during spin phase as it is a solid tub washer and has to throw all that water out the top of the tub. maybe 17 seconds is not quite accurate on my part, it's been over a year since I ran it last with a load in it. but I know it's a good 12-15 seconds. we had one when I was a kid and this one spins out exactly like the one I remember then. thanks for all the info and for mentioning grainger. I did see on the web that they carry capacitors.

hello vacosaurus, I see you are in Cleveland! I have quite a few dishwashers from the Cleveland, northern ohio area! and that speed queen wringer washer I am trying to give away came from Cleveland. I used to live in Sandusky when I worked at cedar point for 10 years. love northern ohio!!! thanks for your info.

 

[tolivac]

Thanks for the info on the long start spin cycle for the Rollermatic washers-think the motor windings would be "beefier" on those than other cap start motors.The "3 lead" caps they must have a seperate cap value for other motor speeds.On the appliance parts meant to say Appliance Parts stores-or older time hardware stores carried motor start caps.--But since these are electrolytics-be sure to get a fresh stock one.An old one would have dried out on the shelf,going bad.The 3 lead caps are no longer common-you may have to use 2 seperate caps.

 

[rickr]

That's what I did when I did the restoration on this Rapid Dry. I used two new caps. Works just great.

 

[philr]

Rick, did your 1966 originally used just one 3 wire capacitor? The capacitors on my washer seem to be original. They are wired together and the connectors on them aren't visible. In the wiring between both caps and the switch, there's just one clear connector with two wires in that appears to be original also. There are also two mounting brackets in the door and they seem to be factory-installed. 

 

1966 was a transition year as single and two speed models got the Sure-Spin clutch that year but the 4 speed Rapidry models kept the impact clutch and capacitors.

 

[hydralique]

Damn, but that turquoise set is gorgeous! My grandmother had the washer in yellow, but not the dryer and anyway turquoise always beats yellow . . .

 

[cornutt]

That old cap may itself be the cause of the long start time -- after so many years, its actual value is probably only a small fraction of the rating.

I've linked to a cap from Mouser that looks like a near-exact replacement.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier/PSU12415/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22Q7Mu45KzMTPBSJ6ZfxMpZo%3d

 

[rickr]

.

Hi Phil, yes, my set is from 1966. It had the three connector capacitor, but I could not find that replacement, so I used two caps from Mouser to replace it. I think this machine uses an impact clutch rather than the sure spin.

 

[rollermatic]

that turquoise set

is awesome! I always loved the lighted control panel on the one my aunt had! I used to beg to do the laundry just so I could have fun with it!

thanks for all the input, and the reference to mouser. and also thanks for naming those clutches, sure spin vs impact. I could not remember their names, it's been about 4 years since I did any serious rollermatic work. but with a week off this week and the weather freezing here in cinti I decided to jump in to the wonderful world of Frigidaire rollermatics again!

I did tear into another one I have had for about 4 years, will do a thread on it in the next day or so.

 

[davetranter]

Start capacitor

Just my 'two cents' worth', but in view of the long ramp-up time on this machine, it may be worthwhile parallel connecting two 60-70MFD caps, in order to avoid the capacitor overheating. Modern caps are physically smaller than old ones, and as a result get hotter faster. I had this problem on a single phase compressor. Your opinion please, Tolivac??

All best

Dave T

 

[cornutt]

If you could find a "low ESR" cap that would help with the heating too. But I didn't see one at that value in the Mouser catalog.

 

[tolivac]

Compressors-When I worked a stint at a tool repair place-long start times on compressors-Is the compressor pump in good condition?Unloader valves working(This is CRITICAL)if the unloader isn't working that puts an abnormal load on the motor-the unloader releases air from the pump cylinders when the compressor stops.You should hear a breif hiss of air after the compressor stops-if not your unloader is not working.Clean air filters on the pump intake is another thing to check.The valves in the pump cylinder heads may need replacing.And make sure all of the moisture condensed in the tank is drained out.This is another thing that relates to safety-a corroded tank is DEADLY!!!It can explode with tremendous force-enough to destroy the garage or shed the compressor is in.Most compressors built today have automatic drain valves.Try to find capacitors rated for compressor duty-and has the largest number of starts-often indicated on the cap or the box it comes in.Rated in starts per hour.
Rick: BEAUTIFUL pair of Turquoise machines--love that color!!!Glad the two caps are working.