Here We Go Again Folks! Miele Needs New Brushes

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launderess

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Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage
Or at least that is what Miele USA tech support is saying.

Whilst doing some washing the other day noticed the machine was making a rather interesting whine noise during spinning. At first one thought "Oh no, it's the bearings", but a few quick test of the tub (spun around empty, gently pushed about up and down), show it's as tight as ever and no strange grinding or other sounds.

A long listen whilst the machine is spinning indicates to us the sound is coming from the motor area, so contacted Miele. After years of telling one my unit (1070) had a brushless motor they are now saying it does and they need to be replaced. However as per usual they cannot be sure without a callout nor would they say what are general signs motor brushes are worn or gone.

It never rains but pours! *LOL*
 
Miele UK

My Dear Launderess I have to say that you get the same response from Miele in the UK. Just double up on what you think it could cost and add £100.00 for the call out. I had 2 little things in the dryer last year that sense how long the load will take to dry and they cost £275.00
 
Age?

Hi Launderess, would like to know how old your washer is? We have a Miele 5740 which is still spring chicken but we are really impressed thus far.

Could it perhaps be a driving belt?

Hope you can resolve the issue.

regards
 
Sounds more like motor bearings to me. Noisy motor bearings will usually work for years before they actually fail.
 
Stand Down,

Contacted Miele this morning to make arrangements for servicing and got one of the "old school" techs who knew older machines including mine inside and out.

After describing the sounds and circumstances when it occurs was advised that no, it wasn't the brushes (if that were the case the machine simply wouldn't spin period) causing the "noise". Started the machine up and allowed it to spin and from listening tech further stated it simply was the sound of a "normal" older machine.

Upshot is no service call at this time even though the brushes in theory should have been replaced by now. Tech's advice was "if it ain't broke fix it", thus calling out a tech just to change brushes that aren't yet gone isn't worth the money.

One thing that has me worried is the motor bearings, but tech didn't think that was it either and in such a case if they were going that means a new motor.

All and all will keep my eyes peeled for a newer model Miele or SQ at a good price to purchase as a "daily driver" to perhaps take the work load of the 1070. Would mean getting shot of perhaps the Whirlpool portable to make space, but we'll light that firecracker when we come to it.

Thanks for the advice gang.
 
Life Span

Hi Not sure of the age of your 1070 but I would expect that it will go on for many years making the odd noise.
My 1st Miele is with an X and still in daily use 37 years after we got it and its had some very heavy use over the years My 2nd Miele I got when I was 42 and i'm 58 now so thats 16 years and that one I gave to a builder you helped with some work when we moved and thats still going well. The current one is now 9 years old and I cant make up my mind weather to keep it or change as we are now planing a refit of the house over the next 2 years. If i keep this one I'll get Miele to do a full service. Good Luck with the 1070 and I wish you well to use it

MIke K
 
Launderess,  I know you enjoy your Miele,  sounds like your tech. was the right guy.  I hope your machine provides many more years of use.  It is distressing when you are happy with what you have, and whats available to purchase now, is just not the same.  alr
 
Miele brushes

Had a Miele washer about 14 years ago and that needed brushes it would wash but not spin, I believe that nearly all Miele washers have a double motor a silent wash one and the spin brush one all combined in one unit hence the expense. Now IMHO you will soon notice if the spin brushes have worn you get intermittent spins that whine up in pitch then subside again after a while the carbon gives way to the spring and thats what you don't want as it then scores the commutator which has to be smoothed again or you wear brushes down in a short while. One of the easiest ways to tell if your brushes are wearing out is to look at the bottom of the machine in the dark you will notice blue sparking, you can buy replacement brushes off ebay for a fraction of the price Miele charge :)

Austin
 
Dear lady, the bearing sound will be several octaves below the brush sound. More a growl than a whine.

I've had brushes wear to failure in a vacuum and their noise didn't change.
 
Motor bearings

Actually, motor bearing failure does not always mean you need a new motor, although I suppose it does if a Miele technician is doing the job. Usually you can't change the front bearing as the pulley would need to be removed and that is a very tight press fit. The rear bearing can be pulled off the armature and a new one fitted, they are a standard ballrace bearing you buy at a bearing store. Often it is only the rear bearing that gets noisy anyway, so it can be a cheap way of giving an old motor a new lease of life.
I found when I was in the trade that a lot of customers with Miele machines seemed to think that only Miele employees were capable of repairing them but they are not actually much different to any other make. For this reason I didn't get to do many and the ones I did work on were often over 20 years old.
 
I would think in an expensive peice of equipment such as the Meile washer the motor bearings could easily be replaced.For motors in service where stress is applied to the side of the shaft-the bearings will wear faster-as in a belt pulling on a motor shaft pulley-or say in a woodworkers router-the side pressure exerted by the router user to make the router bit cut or shape the wood edge.And-with the side pressure you get kind of a diagnal stress applied to the rear bearing of the motor rotor.Most motor makers specify what kind of side stress the bearings can take-if the stress is too much-the bearings wear more quickly.I had to do a lot of bearing replacements in the power tool motors I worked on-those being in motors that were involved in situations where side stress applied to the bearings-or improper lubing by the tool user.Motor pulleys and gears can be easily removed with a gear or wheel puller-used this tool many times to remove a gear or pulley from a motor shaft in order to replace bearings or replace the motor rotor.An arbor press can be used for this,too.The arbor press is also used to apply the new bearings.
 
Not sure about this old Miele but it is common on European front loaders to have a non-removable pulley. The motor is assembled without the pulley, then the pulley is fitted on the shaft, then the tip of the shaft is burred over in a press so that the pulley can't be removed. I'm not sure what the correct name for this process is. It is like the end of the shaft forms a rivet when pressed. It is common on vacuum cleaner motors too - fit the fan, then punch the end of the shaft so fan can't be removed. It means when the pulley end bearing wears out, you have to replace the armature/bearing/pulley as a unit. Some non-genuine suppliers can supply a modified armature with a bolt or nut on the end, so that the pulley is removable for future repairs. Not sure about this Miele but is is the case for some other Euro front loaders.

It is common enough for motor brushes to get a bit noisy as they wear down - as the length of the brush gets shorter, they aren't held quite as firmly and can jiggle and chatter a bit - as it happens at a high speed it creates a real high pitched scream. It can come and go over time as the brush beds in to its new position. It does NOT mean the brushes are worn out, just that they are somewhat worn.

I'd respectfully suggest, Launderess, that it is giving you notice that is it eventually going to need new brushes, but is giving you plenty of notice so you have time to source reasonably priced brushes from overseas, and to get your head around fitting them yourself. (with help and encouragement from your friends here.)
 
So Many Well Wishes, And Thank You

Will try to respond here to all queries generally.

Mile USA did not start putting serial numbers on washers and dryers until the 19XX series, therefore the exact age of my washer is rather unknown. We do know the 10XX series (W1065 and W1070) were the second set of units imported to USA shores after the W770 series at around the late 1980's through early 1990's. So leave us say our washer is at least twenty years old though we've only had it for about 15 or so years.

The motor used for these early Miele washer is a huge cast iron job that weighs quite allot. It's actually two motors (one side for wash tumble, other for spin) and is sealed. So if the motor brushes go the entire unit must be replaced. Am sure there are those whom rebuild such motors but Miele isn't one of them. Should the motor fail under warranty it is replaced, if it is an older unit one can pay Miele to do the work (subject to parts being available), or DIY again if one has access to the proper parts and equipment do do the work.

Tech told us that these huge cast iron motors probably were some of if the not the best Miele made. By the 19XX series Miele went to the smaller "gray" units most are familar with.

MieleUSA as changed their callout costs. Now there is a flat fee just to arrive and sort out the problem, then follows an hourly rate to make repairs. Swapping out an motor on older washers is time consuming, whilst the brushes (motor) is less it's still going to take time. Techs who knew their way around these "older" units are becoming harder to come by, so the new young dogs are rather "slow" because they've rarely if ever encountered these beasts.

Then there is the fact newer Miele washer are designed to be serviced totally from the front. Older units like mine are the same to an extent but getting to the motor is a tight squeeze and again not for the faint hearted.

As for replacing the motor brushes oneself, probably not on. The parts aren't *that* expensive when compared to purchasing abroad (exchange rate) and shipping( again exchange rate) but doing the install is just not up one's street at the moment. Besides if Miele does the repair there is a warranty of one year on parts and labour, if one does it and something goes south, that is that.

The whine isn't that loud. Certainly nothing like what one has seen of Miele and other washers on YouTube whose motor bearings have gone. It also could also all be in one's head, thus making a moutain out of mole hill.

Miele will replace the motor in field, but at $1500 USD just for the part, that is half the price of a W3033.

One does not know and maybe will one day bite the bullet and have Miele install a new motor,control board and timer (the three critical parts) but one's main worry would be the tub bearings. That requires the unit be sent to Miele's main campus in NJ and probably more than the machine is worth.

Problem one runs into with these Miele units sold in USA is that there are parts which run on 120v thus aren't "off the shelf" ready from the EU. Miele washers and to an extent dryers run on 120v/240v (220v?) which means there are parts fed directly with 120v. Obviously EU machines have no need for 120v parts so they aren't found.

Capacity wise there isn't that much difference between the 1070 and 3033. The main differences are in water usage, heating power, and of course cycles and what not.
 
Do Meile motors have the "brush stop" feature-many motors in power tools I worked on did-if the brush got too short-the motor would stop.AEG,Bosch used this as I remember.Would signal the user to have the motor serviced-besides brushes-the tool repairman put a "service kit" in the machine-this was grease,brushes,and gaskets.That is hard to fathom the perm attached pulleys and fans-if that were the case --would not buy such an item.Would rather have the motor completely serviceable.
 
I have worked on a Miele double ended motor before - not sure if is is the same as this one or not - is there more than one type of double ended motor?
(induction motor for wash, brush motor for spin)
The brushes were easily replaceable. Motor didn't have to be removed from the machine.
Don't know the model number I worked on, but it would have been a 1980s model with brown dashboard.
I'd be very surprised if the motor was sealed to the extent that brushes were not easily replaceable.
 
Brushes Are Easily Swapped Out of the Motor In Field

It's the motor bearings that spell doom for these huge cast iron beasts.

They cannot be taken apart and "rebuilt" in the field so to speak in order to replace or lubricate motor bearings so the only choice is to replace. A new motor runs about >$1400 USD, plus labour.

Now of course if anyone wishes to take the older motor with bad bearings, open it up and repair, then put it back together suppose that could be done, but there isn't that much call for such services on Miele washers on this side of the pond.

Most persons will simply listen to the tech's advice and scrap the Miele and buy new when something major such as the motor or tub bearings need to be replaced.

That nice lad from Holland and his friends who rebuilds Miele's on Youtube probably could do well here in the States. *LOL*
 
I think there was a video posted by someone( I know his name but right now Vodka and cranberry juice  is preventing me from remembering it) in this forum who has a W3033 showing that there is a transformer inside the machine that converts 120V to 220V so that the internal components of the newer machines  are actually using 220v.

 

I also doubt that any USA Miele repair person is equipped to do maintenance on any type of part on the spot--maybe the old experienced techs could but these newer ones? They show up, connect their laptop to the machine which displays the inside of the machine identifying  defective part, then they install a replacement and charge $170 for just showing up plus the cost of the part.  If all you are going to do is replace a part even I  could do it if I had the parts, the laptop and the software, but perhaps not a motor.    I like the sound of the W1070 motor sealed and protected - shows that they were intended to last a long time. Not sure how the previous models work, but on mine the service person can tell the location and date of manufacture from using the laptop.  My model was produced in the year 2000, I think the place  of manufacture was Dusseldorf, so the laptops are useful for some things.

 

As for a newer machine. My current thinking is that even though a new motor is 1/2 the cost of a newer model right now I think I would go with the new/rebuilt motor instead of replacing my 220V for a 120V(which would require me to run 120V to the machine) that doesn't have the flexibility I have with my W1986.....which doesn't even have the flexibility that the W1070 has.  I am keeping the thing for as long as I possibly can...old or not because newer(even Miele) is not necessarily better.

 

I wonder if they could install a new brushless motor in place of a motor that has brushes?

 

 

 

 

 
 
sealed motor

Does anyone know how its sealed? Having only worked on a few Miele washers the one I did the brushes on had like a foam cover on it I assume to cut down noise, once the foam was removed you could see the two brush covers.

Austin
 

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