Hobart FFW- Install and Modification

[mwendig]

HI Everyone,

This is my first foray into installing an industrial dishwasher although I have used them for years when I worked in restaurants growing up.

I got a Hobart FFW off of Ebay for $300, so I am already psyched. My goal is to install it into our kitchen as our standard dishwasher as we cook alot, can, freeze, butcher our own game etc. LOTS of dishes.

My questions are:

-Electrical requirements, the manual says a 50 amp breaker. The washer has a 4 wire heavy duty, perhaps 6 gauge hook up so that is clearly the 50 amp. There is also an additional 3 wires coming from a separate connection does this need a 110 plug as well? If so what amperage. See pictures.

-Is there a way to install a switch onto the tank heater, I would like to be able to turn it off and use my house temperature water for normal use, but be able to turn on the heater when we are going to run multiple loads, canning etc.

-Finally the manual references an extended wash but I don't see any switch to activate this, was this an option?

Any other help, advice, links etc. are appreciated.
[email protected]

 

[mwendig]

Extra picture

Here is a pic of the serial number plate.

 

[iheartmaytag]

I can' t help you with your question, BUT we want pictures of the entire machine man.

 

 

[mwendig]

Well I got some 6 gauge range wire and I am going to give it a shot. I am still looking for find out what the 3 120 wires are for and if anyone has put a switch in to shutoff the water heater. Any help is appreciated.

 

[stevet]

been there, done that!

I am waiting for some more pictures from my best buddy in NY who has done what you want to do years ago. He has a WM5H and a FFM unit that he converted to uses domestic or booster heated water. There are details you need to be aware of before you tackle the project so hang tight.

The 4 wire setup is used so that you have 2 hot wires 1 current carrying neutral AND a separate ground.

The whole machine runs on 120 volts except for the heater elements in the booster and if you have one, in the sump.

It also should have come with a detergent dispenser pump which may be what the other wires are for but you may want to work backwards from the end of that smaller sealtite and see where they hook up un the front of the machine. For all you know, the previous owner may have just run it on 120 and did not ever have it heat its own water.

 

[brummybear]

Get an electrician

This is a 3 phase machine, Both the heater and the pump motor are eaither 240 or 415 volt and not 110 volts.

Please get an electrician to look at it as connecting it directly to your 110 system may damage the machine and or your house wireing.

http://www.powerphase.us/distributionofthreephasepowerintheusa.htm

 

[stevet]

Correction, Please

Please be advised that your machine IS, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN a single phase machine as produced for North American use.

It is not a 3 phase unit as the timer and pump both run on 120 volts.

 

[mwendig]

I hooked up the 220 lines to a 50 amp breaker and run a water line to it. I have it all torn apart in the middle of the kitchen no installed yet just to test. It was a late night adventure but appears to work. I am still not sure what the 110 wires are I need to trace them? it also seems it doesn't use enough water and almost seems to too quiet to be blasting water around?? It does turn the detergent pump and circulates water.

Couple continuing questions:

Pictures of the switch for the heater would be great!!

How much water should be sitting in the bottom when its done? The small heating element by the rinse water isn't covered and the pipe that comes in the left side seems to be dribbling water out.

Any other thoughts on how to test to ensure its all working?

Thanks.

 

[stevet]

Bits and Pieces

I have some great pics to post of a really tricked out machine my best bud in Bay Shore, NY put together a few years ago.
Here is a quick nutshell:
Basically, He has 2 separate fill systems for the water fill.
Obviously, the OEM setup providing water to fill the booster with domestic hot water to be heated by the machine. The other is a direct feed from the domestic supply bypassing the booster.

The booster heat can be interrupted and when selected,shuts off the original fill valve and sends power to the secondary(domestic only) fill and interrupts the heat contactor circuit to the booster.

There is also a timer interrupt switch which allows the user to extend any cycle segment for as long as you desire. Good for soaking really dirty "stuff."

In the picutres to follow, the switch on the left side is for the booster heat and valve selection. The switch on the right is the timer interrupt switch.
When both switches are set in their off or normal positions, the normal workings of the machine will be the default setting. Hot water booster on and oem fill valve actuated.

As far as how much water you should have in the tank,based on your description above, after the rinse, there should be enough water to do a complete wash when the machine is started for the next wash cycle. That will insure that there is also enough water in the sump for the sump heater to heat up.If you have the 2 piece metal/plastic strainers, I would strongly suggest you remove the plastic part and install a coarse strainer from any K/A 18 thru 20 series machine in its place. Unless you are religious about turning the machine off and keeping the door latched closed when not in use but waiting for additional loads, you can run the risk of evaporating the water in the sump and melting the big round coarse strainer.

Pictures of your actual machine would be a big help.

Hang on for the pics to follow

 

[mwendig]

WOW that is quite the modification, I am jealous for sure. Pictures are coming soon and thanks for the detailed response. I am working on getting machine to a base line that is everything working the way I want it first. Then I am going to add a switch to the heater and go from the there.

Couple of remaining questions.

The 110 coming out of the back is in a conduit and is connected to the valve by the boost tank. When not plugged in the valve dribbles water into the wash area, never stopping. I hooked up a plug to it and plugged it in and the valve really opens and pours water into the wash area. Shouldn't that valve shut off when not cycling? What am I missing here. It seems that should be hooked internally somewhere but due to the conduit it appears it should be plugged in??

I have two detergent tubes, on is a clear tube with a small threaded end that hooks to the bottom of the tub fill, it dribbles rinse water out during periods of washing. What is this for?

Finally the primer switch on the detergent doesn't appear to do anything. Does the unit have to be in a particular mode to work? I am assuming when that is flipped the pump should turn?

Thanks for the help, pictures are on the way.

 

[mwendig]

O one question on his modification. What type of switch did he use to turn the heat off and what wires did he interrupt. I was looking at keeping it simple and putting a switch to interrupt the wires that hook up to the heating element at the end of the boost tank. I figured this would required a switch from a welder or similar capacity but I see he used toggle switches.

 

[stevet]

A simple switch needed

You will interrupt the wires going to the heater element contactor coil. You only have to interrupt one side of it to have it not energize to heat the booster tank, but remember, the reason for the second fill valve is because the booster tank holds 6 gallons of water which could be as cool as ambient temp of the room as well as will cause your domestic water to be cooled while the cycle is progressing. It will be difficult to get decent rinse temps that way. He used a double pole, double throw switch that cut out the contactor coil and switched the power from the oem fill valve to the auxilliary valve for the straight domestic supply.

lh switch is the one we speak of now, the rh one is the interrupt for the timer motor so you can run the machine as long as needed. The rest are all the factory switches on this particular model. There were some variations in these units as they were made for regular customers as well as specific features for Wendy's McD's and Burger Kings.

 

[mwendig]

I see now. Do you know what valve he used and what the capacity of the switch needs to be? Any pictures of the setup underneath by chance?

Thanks! This is of great help!!