Hobart WM-1D dishwasher

[mikeCL]

I could really use some help with this, first of all I don't know the age of it. But it's installed in a church with the external hot water heater.

First is I can't get it to pump any water into the dishwasher..

Second is the motor only hums for the cycle time.

And last is I can't find any info at all about this dishwasher and no manual.

I do have pictures but right now my internet is being crazy right now and it took me 5 min just to get to the create a new message thread here.

I do have a youtube video which should hopefully explain things

 

[stevet]

Share some info

Mike,
Send or post the serial number and I can probably give you a ballpark idea of its creation date. Also, if you have the ML-Number, that will provide the exact parts manual you need and I may be able to help there too. Don't get your hopes up too high as they stopped making these in the very early 80's and not much is available for it from Hobart. Some parts are available. Getting water into it isn't too much of a problem so let's explore the possibilities..
If you put water into it manually, does it actually make more than a humming noise? It will sound like it's only humming if there is no water going in. And of course, is the water actually turned on? Maybe someone turned it off fearing that the water line may freeze???
Steve

 

[mikeCL]

Thanks Steve for the help, I was fearing no one knew anything about this

Now that my internet speeds are working this should be more help

 

[mikeCL]

Oh I forgot to say I haven't tried to put water in it manually yet but I will try again tonight.

 

[stevet]

Start from the beginning

Mike, it sounds like your timer was in the middle of the cycle and was trying to fill for the short fill before the final rinse. Close and latch the door and let it finish the cycle. Once it stops, when you lift the latch, the timer will reset to the start position and will run thru a fill, wash, drain, short fill, drain, final fill and drain. There are 2 complete cycles in 360 degrees of rotation on the timer.
It also sounds like the motor is jammed. You may want to remove the wash arm(not an aerator) and then the part it sits on. That is called the wash arm support. Once off, you will see the wash pump impeller. See if it turns by hand. If it doesn't, then the motor is stuck and may need to re replaced.

You need to find out the story with the water supply. A WM-1D had dual fill fils, one for the wash which used building hot water and then the other one was supplied by the booster for 180 degree rinse. However, it was not unusual to see it plumbed to the booster for both wash and rinse.

 

[stevet]

Age check

Based on what I can see of the serial number, I did not hit a direct match but the machine with serial ending in 878 was built in late 1987 which should put yours not too much older that that time.

These machines used all the same pump parts and drain parts as the Kitchenaid 16 and 17 series.
They actually had the same dual strainers as the Kitchenaids when they first were built but went to a redesigned wash arm support and a single stainless steel filter.

http://https//my.hobartcorp.com/resourcecenter/ProductDocumentation/F8104 WM1 WM1D Dishwasher.pdf

 

[mikeCL]

Does the wash arm just pull right up? Good to know it uses parts from another model, that's a relief.

 

[stevet]

yes..but...

Make sure that you position the "X" so that it clears the rack supports on the side of the tank. Then just pull up by the hub not the arms and it should come out, It sounded like it was loose when you spun it.

If you want to get a feel for the spray action,look on youtube for videos of KD 15 16 or 17 series machines

 

[mikeCL]

OK got the wash arm off but the motor is locked tight.

 

[mikeCL]

Not so good news is the drain hose that connects to the drain line snapped the connection looks like corrosion.

 

[stevet]

Can you be more specific?

Pics of what and where it broke?
Start l,ooking for a kd15/16/17 motor or pump. I bet you will find one here.

 

[mikeCL]

I hope this works I'm not at home.

 

[stevet]

problem...

That part is so expensive from Hobart and only Hobart. You may want to try to solder it back together but may be better off going to a good plumbing store and take it with you and they should have something similar to it in brass, chrome or pvc. It may not be exactly like it but for all intents and purposes, this is a gravity drain machine. It can be drained into a drain line into the wall but not many homes or places are set up to line up with this setup.

 

[mikeCL]

I might try and solder it instead.. what I have a hard time finding out is removing the dishwasher from under the canbet.. I assume it's all hard lines? The booster is taking up my room from seeing what I need to see.

I think I saw a KDS-17 on youtube.. it's arms looked the same but the flow rate was impressive!

The other dishwasher we have is a kitchenaid KDI-18 That one does work, I did not get to put any dishes in it since I did not have anything to put in the dispenser.

So I assume the whole locked up motor issue is the bearing? It's not possible to free it up? It really stinks of mildew inside of the washer.

 

[stevet]

Not a bad job

to change the bearings on one of these motors.It can be done a number of ways but they all require that the motor be removed from the tank which is not all that bad.

Send me an email and I will provide you my phone number and we can discuss the whole process. Meanwhile, I will look for a parts manual for you and scan it so yu will have it at your side!
Steve

 

[mikeCL]

Hey Steve I sent you a email if I do the bearings would they be easy to find?

Also I looked a bit harder behind the limited space of the DW and I did see two lines but it's hard to say where it's going.. One of the lines comes from under the sink to the DW and the other goes to the booster.

I assume the water fill is a solenoid operated?

 

[mikeCL]

Steve here are some pictures I took yesterday.

 

[mikeCL]

The black hose is from the booster pressure relief valve.

Sorry The picture got rotated sideways

 

[mikeCL]

Will try and start unbolting the parts to get the motor out. Meanwhile try and figure out the water flow.

 

[mikeCL]

Around 3 min you see black water come from the inlet. Water will always fill inside the DW unless water is turned off.. Can't find booster water valve yet..

Hobart dishwasher:

http://hobart dishwasher: youtu.be/tMBE-pY3u94

 

[stevet]

This just keeps growing!

Figured I would answer your email here since you sent the same video to me earlier in the day.

First,you need to disconnect the pump power by disconnecting the black and white wires that come out of it. If you ever intend to use it, you don't want to keep cooking the windings and the start switch contacts.Remember, I told you that you can't buy that start switch anymore!

Second, your fill valve diaphragm is shot and that is why it is leaking.So make plans to rebuild or replace both of the valves as the second rinse valve will probably be just as bad.

Third,you photographed the supply valve for the booster a few days ago so you will need to turn that on to see if the water will run thru the booster and how well the second fill valve works.

The normal sequence is fill with valve 1 and wash pump runs, then drain solenoid opens(pump running at same time), then it closes and then valve 2 opens to partially fill and then drain snaps open again, then valve 2 opens to fill completely and then the drain solenoid opens again to drain it. The pump stops as the timer comes to the end of its cycle.

I told you that the timer has 2 complete cycles within 360 degrees of rotation. It will stop cycle 1 at 180. If you unlatch the door which you did at the end of the video, it will advance to start another cycle as seen in your clip. The machine doesn't care if the door is opened or not, it has a switch mounted at the latch to make the timer ready itself to start again as soon as the door is closed and latched.

The black stuff could be crap inside your building plumbing or the diaphragm as well. All you need is a piece of galvanized or black pipe somewhere in your water line that someone may have used in a pinch and you can get the black stuff coming out. But getting the machine working is the first priority.

In all honesty, Mike, you will probably have a much easier time pulling the machine out when you are really ready to tackle this project. You have too much stuff to fix in a very small area in which to work and it is much easier to be able to attack it from all four sides and to even turn it over if need be.(please remove the wash arm before turning it over)

You know how to reach me if you need to as well as anyone else here on the forum.
This should be enough to ponder for you for now!

Later
Steve

 

[mikeCL]

I did find in the blueprints of the pluming the booster hookup while I'm not home right now I took pictures of the solenoids valves. I noticed is the booster must be on the same line, if I open the valve the water entering in the DW slows, when I close the valve on the booster it begins to build in the booster but can't fully because of the valve leak.

 

[mikeCL]

Ok here are the pictures

 

[mikeCL]

And one more

 

[stevet]

A real Nightmare!

Those line strainers in front of the water valves look like they are cast iron instead of brass, You do NOT want to touch those clamps as the screws will probably break. The actual solenoids are the older style 3/8" Asco valves. I will check to see if there are still rebuilding kits available thru Hobart for you. You will definitely want to pull the machine out to rebuild and replace those parts.
They are flanged to the inlet piping so those 2 bolts on the egg shaped pieces will come out and the flanges will separate. You will need o-rings to reseal them when put back together.
Like I said before, this is not a quick fix project until you get it out and really look it over and determine if you can handle it.

 

[mikeCL]

I was doing more searching since they were good with keeping everthing I found these two things.. Looks like the DW was serviced in '85 but the person wirting did not press hard enough on the carbon copy so I can't make out what was serviced.

It wont be untill few weeks until I can look at this due to all the moving around, I want to store and work on it in a storage closet so once everything dies down I will start.

And I agree Steve it would be far better to have full asess of the DW you can move much faster by just having enough room.

I thank you again for the info you given me on the phone, having said that the health inspector like you said will test the water temp as I saw his report on the dishwasher which I only saw up to the year 2000.

I'm ok doing this I just hate working in limted space because of no freedom of movement.

 

[mikeCL]

Oh boy.. so I guess me turning on the water valve under the sink.. it now causes a very tiny waterflow stream into the DW now.. so now the DW is always full of water the next day after you drain it..

 

[ectofix]

That's an easy fix compared to your Hobart machine. That orange-handled gate valve (feeding the pressure reducing valve) in your picture in Post# 751297 probably just needs a new rubber washer. Any hardware store can hook you up. I recommend taking it apart and take the parts you removed with you to the hardware store.

 

[mikeCL]

Found the shut off maybe next week I might be able to free it under the sink.

Hey Steve I've been running the other DW and I noticed I can't turn the motor by hand as well.. At least the spindle part. Any info on how much it pumps a min and its psi?

 

[mikeCL]

Yikes.. I'm not really sure how I can get to the two pipes to the back of the DW.. I have my tools ready to take it apart but because the side of the sink just has a cutout for the drain, water inlet and pressure valve the rest is all solid metal.. My only other option is to cut a section out of the metal under the sink.. I can't swing my tools from the booster side because it's on the far end and narrow.

It seems like the sink was installed around the DW and any repairs to it or line disconnection was a afterthought.

I turned the main water valve off for the DW so no more filling up when it's not on, not sure if you had any luck looking for info on the solenoid valves.