Hot/Cold filling

[cbosch]

Heating machines

As someone who does a lot of 90degree cycles I thought I would be more efficent with a hot and cold machine that would at least use hot water then heat it to the max temperature but now on my cold fill machine I have not noticed any difference in the amount of electricity I use. The ehating process alows the enzymes in the soap to work before reaching the maximum heat. Therefore a chemical wash is achieved and then a high heat wash follows.
I certainly would not like a machine that had no heater as I could not achieve such high temperatures with a water heater

 

[vivalalavatrice]

Very glade!

Good! I knew you would have answered...I'm glade of that!

At the end, like Steve said there's not an EXACT rule...it ALWAYS depends on the area, on the habits...
We know that it wouldn't make sense to let the washer heat up the water fillng it with cold only, when in your house you have a storage hot water available! So where tho hot-water-system is accumulating, washers MUST have to be filled with hot water...and the DW too!

If otherwise you produce hot water instantaneally (storage-less), you have not any hot water left to be used! Once your washer/DW has filled up starts to heat up the water by itself.

The problem (maybe I was not clear, but I'll translate the article so you will understand what I mean) is that here is beginning to become common the storage-hot-water-system (the only way to get hot water with solar energy or from burning wood), and as here we have got ONLY COLD-FILL-OLY washers available... what to do?!?!? The DW manufacturer says you're able to hook up the only DW hose to the HOT water tap either... but what about the WASHERS! There should be available either the HOT&COLD fill whashers here either, the same that the Italian producers make to sell abroda, like Indesit or Rex!
Someone hooked up thw COLD fill washer valve to a mixing-tap (blender...how to say "miscelatore"), but the valve got demage! I know infact that they're different form cold fill and hot fill...

The STAIN-TROUBLE then would be solveble somehow...

Anywasy, me I've alwasy do the washing up in the DW starting with COLD fill... and the old DW was better that the new one as it took shorter (60°C, starting withe cold fill, 60min!), instead of this one I have (65°C, starting withe cold fill, 75min!!!). Never had any demage...

The washer... well it takes obviously 2h if you fill cold and you have to reach 90°C!!! Lucky we have got 220V and the heater is 2000W...

Thanks all for the precious informations and the very appreciate suggests!

GoodBYE
Diomede

 

[launderess]

Miele washers on 220/240v power can heat even the most frigid tap cold water to boiling in a short amount of time. They always have been able to do so, but the design was altered by Miele awhile back in response to consumer complaints that the water heated too fast for enzyme detergents to work properly. Those were probably the days before "Fraken-Enzymes" that work in everything from cold to hot water.

Natural enzymes tend to have a sweet spot of 100F (body temp) to 120F, and are killed off at about 140F and certianly by 200F water temps. Though there are natural enzymes which are perfectly happy at extreme temps, and can be found living in places like hot springs. Some European washers such as those by AEG added a "Bio" cycle button to the control section. When this button was selected the washer would "pause" heating water at around 100F for awhile before proceeding onto hotter water temps. This gave the enzymes a chance to work before being killed off one presumes.

All this palaver is part of the infamous "profile" washing so many people, especially those over on THS rave about. Theory beind the process is that cold water prevented certian stains from setting and or flushed away, warm water for enzymes, and hot to boiling water to activate the often used perborate bleach.

Detergent formulations have changed over the years, with new types of enzymes and bleach activators that allowed boil wash bleaching to take place at temps of 120F to 100F. EU detergents are changing again as perborate/borates/borax is removed from laundry products by EU mandate due to environmental concerns. Borates are harmul to plants and thus the waste water from laundry can do damage.

Peeped a box of Persil the other day and indeed perborate bleach and activator seems to have been replaced by percarbonate bleach. Percarbonate bleach works at all water temps without an activator, but best at 100F and above. Cooler water requires long contact times, but will bleach.

In theory long as today's European washers have the same heating power as their older cousins, they should have faster cycles as less water is being used for washes. Subsequently less water needs to be heated. However think as part of cost cutting design, heating power is being cut back somewhat, which in theory due to smaller amounts of water being used makes sense. My Miele W770 has two 1500 heaters, and am here to tell you it can "boil" the roughly 6 gallons of water used for normal cottons quite quickly.

L.

 

[bingwsguy]

Just my thoughts

I have tested it both ways and can say that starting with cold fills and letting the machine heat to the temp selected provides much better results both in the washing machine and dishwasher for me. I haven't pre-treated any stains on laundry or scraped any lasagna or cooked egg pans in years. Cold water works on protein and hot water works on grease, but if I want to remove them all in one load, I need to start out cold then heat up to hot. I have found it is actually more energy efficient to let the machines heat that very little amount of water on their own vs. drawing off a water tank.
The points of longer cycle times are very true and it took some getting used to, but multi tasking is a great thing.

 

[lavamat_jon]

I have to say that I have found the results to be the same as the last poster; in our hot/cold fill Hotpoint, it always struggled to get blood stains out whereas that has never really been a problem with our cold fill machines.

In terms of hot water not reaching the machine, we often had to purge our tap for about a minute before we used our old Hotpoint so that hot water would get to the machine - and we have a standard boiler and hot water tank like most UK households. Plus, when the machine would fill with hot water it would often take a while to fill, often 2-3 minutes, whereas the fill on the cold water machines we've had after are done filling within 30 seconds if that. The cold fill definitely is a much better system in my opinion.

In terms of time; our WM64 would take about an hour to an hour and fifteen for a 40*C cottons wash - the Miele and AEG can both do that cycle in the same amount of time. The Hotpoint would take about 90 minutes for a 60*C cottosn wash; the Miele will do cottons 60*C in 1.05-1.25 depending on how big the load is, and the AEG if time saver is selected will do cottons 60*C in 75 minutes. Bear in mind that the Hotpoint didn't take as much time for the rinse cycles, either, and that it always took longer to heat than any of my machines do now.

Jon

 

[aquarius1984]

my Hotpoint

and mums wm62 identical to Jons mums did a great job on hot and cold fill. I prefer it actually. My chef whites were always amazingly white and protein stains such as blood vanished. The house where i live now has a combi boiler next to the washer and barely half a litre of cold water runs into the machine before the hot enters. I guess my experiences are the flip side LOL. But in general im not too bothered about cold fill only machines. Its one less pipe to worry about when disconnecting I guess. Peace to ya'll Nick.

 

[lavamat_jon]

The house where i live now has a combi boiler next to the washer

That would be the best set up, for a hot/cold machine... where our washer used to be in the old kitchen was right at the other end of the house from the hot water tank. Bit stupid really, god knows how many litres of water we used to waste when purging the hot tap for the washer or for washing up!

Still, we noticed a big improvement in wash performance when we upgraded to the Bosch from the Hotpoint... have to say was glad to get rid of the WM64. Was a truly awful machine - aunt thinsk exactly the same to her WM62 though they still have it... mind you I think it's been repaired a gazillion times. Not sure if the washing performance difference was cos of the hot/cold fill scenario, but our whites became white again with the Bosch, and now are much whiter than my aunts are. Mind you, mum did religously use Fairy back then, though I did use Ariel Non Bio in the last 6 months of having the machine and noticed better results.

Jon

 

[aquarius1984]

SCREAMS!

Fairy in a Hotpoint! ariel is bearable now the recommend it. But in a real one, fairy oh no! Produces warrant to arrest mrs jons mum for washercrime. LOL. My mum has the usual hot water tank set up, yeah same too, on other side of the house. The house is only 18 years old so why did they not think of putting the tank over the kitchen, utility? They put my bedroom there instead, but then i guess i would not have been able to listen to the washer while in bed i guess. Lol. My mum used to wash mainly at night for economy 7. She would stick a load in before bed. The joy of listening to our Electrolux Jetsystem ALC through my childhood nights on the longest cycle made me the washerfreak i am i think. Who needs Brahms Lullaby?

 

[lavamat_jon]

Fairy in a Hotpoint...

Well, mum did start using it when we had a Hoover and Fairy was recommended by Hoover, so I guess she can be excused for that LOL. My bedroom in my old house was also above the kitchen... used to love waking up on a Saturday or Sunday morning to hear the Hoover or later on the Creda washing away ;

Jon