Hotpoint drain heater?

[jed0nly]

I own a Hotpoint refrigerator from the 50s. It runs pretty good, but I have issues with the freezer over freezing and the drain freezing as well. Also, water drips from the top roof of the inner fridge and doesn't have a way to make it back to the tray under the condenser. This makes the fridge wet.

I did some poking around, cleaned the drain tube going from under the condenser to the pan, and removed the drain cover running across the top of the fridge. I found them rain heater to be cracked and rusted in spots.

I'd like to replace the drain heater and move forward with troubleshooting.

I've researched off and on for about 5 years, and finally have started poking around this section of the Internet recently. Cool stuff in here.

 

[rp2813]

I've never heard of a heater of any kind on a manual defrost refrigerator.  I have a '57 GE Combination, a two-door refrigerator/freezer with freezer on top.  In the fresh food section, accumulated frozen condensate on the ceiling-mounted serpentine coil melts on its own each time the compressor cycles off, and drains into a trough mounted on the rear wall.  This trough routes the condensate to both rear corners of the cabinet, where it runs down the wall to the cabinet floor, which has channels that route it to a drain that empties into a pan behind the front grille.  The condenser fan blows warmed air over the pan to evaporate the water.

 

Per GE specs, the compressor won't cycle on again until the serpentine coil reaches a temperature a few degrees above freezing, so frost accumulation is effectively removed.  This is an entirely passive system and it works extremely well.

 

The manual defrost freezer section has a drain near the rear wall which routes melted frost through a rubber tube down to the trough in the fresh food section, where it follows the route described above to the same pan behind the front grille.

 

Being a subsidiary of GE, I would expect your Hotpoint to employ a similar system, although perhaps not exactly the same since yours has both fresh and frozen food sections behind a single door.

 

Interior pictures, including the coil and drain, would be helpful if you can post some.

 

 

 

[jed0nly]

There is a drain from the freezer, it spouts out of the roof of the fridge and drips down behind the evaporator into the trough to be drained to the pan below. In the channel are lines and a thin wire loop that I'm assuming is a heater for the drain. The drain freezes, and the freezer really freezes.

I'm not sure if there is a heater in the floor of the freezer or not. I just assumed there was for defrost.

Pictured is the freezer door "automatic defrosting",
The drain from the freezer, and the channel or "drain" housing coolant lines and the thin wire loop that I believe is the heater.

 

[jed0nly]

I also found this stuck to the back. Doesn't really help much, but still neat. What do you think that red thing is? Looks like some sort of plug.

 

[rp2813]

Yeah, that's a system I'm not familiar with, however, I still don't see heaters on the diagram besides those for the liner (presumably to keep the exterior from sweating) and butter conditioner if there is one, and I can't make out the thin wire you mentioned.  If it's a heating element, it could have been a field repair due to problems like the freezing over you're seeing, or it's not a heater, and something else is causing the problem. 

 

What is your cold control set at?  If it's turned to its coldest to keep the refrigerator section adequately cooled, that might explain the super frozen freezer, and could also indicate system problems.  Judging from where you have the thermometer mounted, it may be giving a colder than actual temperature reading, but of course you would notice if things seemed to be spoiling too soon.

 

Is there anything we can see in the freezer section where that frozen-over line exits?  I think this system was used more on Hotpoints, but it might be found on GE single door models too.

 

I'm not an expert on refrigeration theory, but maybe a blockage has formed in the closed system.  Others here with more knowledge may be able to provide a better diagnosis.

 

No idea on what that red plug is.

[this post was last edited: 8/12/2016-00:57]

 

[gansky1]

You can pry off the plastic cover from this drain channel and you'll see a heat-tape that prevents this from freezing over. My Hotpoint had the exact same problem. Measure the length of the heater strip and you should be able to get a generic replacement part at your local appliance store for around $10. Wire in the new strip and replace it in the channel as it was originally and you should be good to go.

 

[customline]

I have a '56 Hotpoint refridgerator............

And your freezer should only be manual defrost and your bottom section should have a regular defrost. That's the "heater" depicted on the schematic behind your fridge. This "heater doesn't extend beyond the freezer. You shouldn't have to set your cold control very high on these units unless something's wrong, like a freon leak. You either have a freon leak or your door gasket is leaking cold air and has to be replaced.

 

[customline]

And also..........

The thin wire loop you're describing is the thermostat line, not a heater.

 

[rp2813]

Very Interesting

Greg, can you elaborate on how this system works, and why there are two very different drains from the freezer? 

 

I'm wondering if this single door design employs the same type of automatic defrosting of condensate from the freezer's evaporator as happens in the fresh food section, which I presume would drain through the channel up front, and if the rear drain tube is for manually defrosting the interior of the freezer.

 

I guess one of the "liner" heaters shown on the diagram is located in that plastic channel.

 

In any case, I'm glad the fix is simple, just as I was hoping it would be.

 

[jeff_adelphi]

There is only one freezer drain, the tube in the back. The white plastic channel covers the refrigerant tubes that run from the freezer coil down to the ref. coil. Because the tubes are connected to the freezer coil that's always well below freezing temp. they placed a low wattage heater inside that channel, to insure that the tubes warm up enough during the off cycle, to allow the ref. coil to defrost fully. The heater is on when ever the compressor is off. The heaters I have replaced were around 10-15 watts. There is no heater in the freezer, as it is only manual defrost.

 

[rp2813]

Jeff, thanks for the explanation.

 

Now let's hope our friend JZ can find a heat strip and restore normal operations.

 

[jed0nly]

The wire loop rides in a channel in that plastic piece attached to the roof. It is covered by a piece of aluminum tape. I'll have to try and find it, it was broke and rusted, so I pulled it out to try and find a replacement. I was assuming this was some sort of resistance wire. The coolant lines are for the freezer, and I assumed this heater only aided in getting the water to the back. Because it isn't working, I'm guessing that why the ice builds up in the fridge.

My dial is set to 4 1/2 out of 10, and it fluctuated between high 30s and low 50s, which I assumed was fine. No issues with food spoiling or cooling.

If it says automatic defrosting, that means for the evaporator and not the freezer?

 

[jed0nly]

The frozen line exits from between the floor of the freezer and the roof of the fridge. If you remove the plastic channel thing, it uncovers a hole where the lines go into and where the wires come out. The freezer does seem to defrost some, as water trickles out from time to time out the rear drain spot and at the bottom of the freezer door, it pools up there sometimes. The freezer door is a bear to keep aligned 100%.

The channel ices at the back, close to the evaporator. I think if the wire was a heater, it would keep the freezer lines from building up ice and also allow this melt to flow to the back and make its way to the trough. My apologies if I didn't word it right, the plastic isn't a drain for the freezer.

 

[rp2813]

Yes, the "automatic defrosting" only applies to the evaporator on the rear wall of the fresh food section.  It didn't seem misleading when these machines were new, but after 1960 the claim lost some of its validity. 

 

As Jeff stated, that channel up front has a heating strip because the tubing it encloses is much colder than that on the rear wall, heat is required to keep it from freezing over like it's doing now, and as a result possibly keeping the rear wall tubing from completely defrosting.  You can see in the picture that a blob is forming where that channel dumps into the trough, and that would only get bigger over time.

 

You still need to manually defrost the freezer interior, but the drain tube in the rear spares you from having to deal with the water, which is a nice convenience.

 

For automatic defrosting of both sections, you need to look for 1960 and later models sporting the terms like "Frostless," "Frost Free" or "Frost Guard" on the front. 

 

 

 

[rp2813]

"<span style="color: #ff0000;">I think if the wire was a heater, it would keep the freezer lines from building up ice and also allow this melt to flow to the back and make its way to the trough."</span>

 

Yes, it is a heater and it's intended for that exact purpose, and it only kicks on when the compressor is idle. 

 

Per the reply from Greg (gansky) further up, a generic heating strip to replace the failed one should be available at most appliance part retailers.   Once you've installed it, the ice on that section of freezer line should no longer linger.

 

[jeff_adelphi]

Here's the heater I have used in the past to fix this problem. My memory of 10-15 watts was wrong, it's only a 6 watt heater.

http://www.supco.com/web/supco_live/products/SH221.html

 

[jed0nly]

Sweet. I thought I. Read someone say it was a thermostat.

 

[jed0nly]

Jeff, that looks very similar to what I pulled out of it! Thanks!

 

[jed0nly]

Question:

That kit says you can't alter or splice it. I cut the heater wires off at the connector that is under the plastic channel. I'm assuming I have to take this kit all the way to where it ties in, wherever that is.

How difficult is that to do?