Hotpoint Liberator De Luxe ‘rescued’

[triumphtoledo]

Don’t get excited - it’s yet another top loader; a 1709/10, from 1978. Not a front-loader, or a 1848 that my Mum had until around 1992...

Basically, several years ago, I was looking for a top-loader but one I was offered, from the early '80s, was a wreck. I spotted this older example in Liverpool. After bidding my maximum on eBay, I got it.

I collect the machine on Wednesday. Basically, its 90+ years-old owner has passed away and the fairly grubby machine needed disposing. Obviously, I presume that it will require some work to get it into presentable condition. How much remains to be seen…

Before then, does anyone have owners’ / workshop manuals, who would be willing to sell/copy/upload?

Once completed, the machine might usurp my excellent Hoover Logic, so, if anyone is looking for a late model Logic (A3888) that does not require work (recent suspension kit and heater - bearings are good, no mould inside and in very clean condition), let me know.

Until then, any ideas about the owners' manual / workshop (or even parts lists) for the Hotpoint would be very helpful...

Rob

 

[supermaticjames]

Hi Rob,

I was hoping this went to a good home and in glad you've saved it. It would be a dream come true for me to own a Liberator but first I'll have to get over the excitement of my first top loader.

If you could drop me an email (my address is on my profile) I will be happy to help in whatever way I can.

James.

 

[mattywashboy]

I'm glad more of these are being saved and rebuilt/cleaned up by you boys. They really are such a unique one of a kind machine.

Best of luck

Matt

 

[bvf]

great stuff

This machine is so neat…England has some unique machines next to flamboyant america…is that the original sticker on this machine or was it meant to always stay on machine..

 

[triumphtoledo]

re

Thanks for your comments Gents. I have yet to collect the machine, so I have taken a risk. At least the vendor says it works, so there is a degree of fall-back.

Presuming it is not a wreck, it shall be tidied up and put into semi-regular domestic use and not relegated to a shed. Thankfully, I am not on a water meter but a top-loader has several advantages for me - not at least helping to take up the stain and baby number two is on the way.

I do have a few queries, though:
How does the wash performance of these old toploaders compare with modern machines?

I’ve read that oil can work its way into the drum. As the transmission is beneath the drum, how can this happen? What is the cause?

Can the transmission oil be topped up or changed? What is the oil spec?

Also, as requested earlier, does anyone have owner and workshop manuals at all?

Much appreciated...

R

 

[supermaticjames]

Hi Rob,

I've dropped you an email regarding manuals.

With regards to wash performance, these beat any front loader (even vintage ones) hands down. This is due to the gyrator wash action and the colossal use of water. The spin is comparable to that of a modern front loader due to the wide diameter of the drum.

The later models were more prone to oil leaks no thanks to Hotpoint's cost cutting so you shouldn't worry. The gearbox has two shaft seals, one at the top and one at the bottom. If the top one failed the oil would work its way up the shaft and into the tub. I had a 9605 (the very last Hotpoint top loader) and it was leaking oil from the bottom of the gearbox because Hotpoint omitted the main seal during the late 80s. Your 1509 and my 15790 are unaffected by this.

The oil can be changed/topped up but you'll have to go through all the hassle I had. I'm happy to help whatever you choose to do.

James.

 

[triumphdolomite]

Nice one Rob, I hope you're not planning to cram it into a Dolly boot when you collect it My 9605 went out of service with a gearbox oil leak, I still miss it now, wash performance was great as was rinsing. I did take a 9600 off my Mum's next door neighbour that I was going to break for spares for my own, it's also got a dud gearbox, but never got around to it, it's buried at the back of the shed under a pile of doors, boot lids and bonnets.......
Congrats on having number two on the way.

Ian

 

[optima]

HPT Toploader

These Washers were great fun machines to have, but were rated (G) for washing & for Energy performance.

 

[ooversanwashers]

.

How well do you think it will clean up? Will you be respraying the really rusty parts?

 

[triumphtoledo]

James, Ian and Luke

Thanks Ian - no I am 'blessed' to own a modern estate car, which will happily swallow a washer. The top-loader should have better capacity to wash bedding mattress covers (the modern Bosch really struggles) as well as other things that a FL washer would damage.

Luke - I am not sure what the machine is like yet, as I collect it tomorrow. James has kindly e-mailed me part of the workshop manual, as well as passing on a few buyer's hints and tops - this guy really knows his onions.

Still, an owner's manual would be nice... lol.

Will keep you updated on what the thing is like after collection and testing at my parents'!

R

 

[sesteve]

Hi Rob

Well done on getting this machine. Love the retro wallpaper. Hope there isn't too much water inside - I've flooded the car a couple of times moving top loaders as they tend to hold a fair bit of water in the heater sump! I picked up, or rather my Dad picked up a new one of these last year from the lake district - I've now had 3 new top loaders. These purple machines are lovely and it looks like your buttons are in good condition too although a bit dirty - should clean up lovely.

I have a full service manual I can send you and I also have the installation instructions and user manual. I'll try and get these scanned and email them to you.

Look forward to some more pictures when you pick it up.

Cheers
S

 

[triumphtoledo]

Well, it has arrived... to save or scrap?

Well, I collected it on Wednesday. The machine formed part of a deceased estate and, according to the vendor, has not been used much – don’t they all say that?

The machine was filthy. What is it with old people that seem to slosh cooking oil everywhere? Sadly, the cabinet’s marks are down to rust, not dirt, which will not clean up easily. Even in my view, let alone that of Her Indoors, it is too scruffy for me to have in the house.

However, everything appears to be intact – although the top wood laminated cover is missing, as are the user manuals, which were thrown out a few months ago, apparently. GRRR!

Prior to loading it into the back of my car, the machine filled up with water and agitated, although it was a bit slow to get into a spin. I think that the Hotty has been unused for at least 24 months – apparently in her later years, the former owner just to engage the services of the local laundry – why else would she not have junked a tatty 1970’s washer for something more modern?

One in my shed, I took the back off and ran a test wash, while I could inspect the gubbins. Not only does the machine have a leak (and looks as though it has been doing so for some time), with water drops falling onto the gearbox, before being sprayed around the left side of the cabinet by the motor belt, but also the tripod assembly, under the agitator, looks very corroded – possibly the result of too many low-temperature washes. I ran two boil washes, which has cleared out much of the muck, raised the shares of my local electricity supplier and has made the thing much less rancid, on the inside at least. The machine does not look to dirty/rotten on the inside, though.

The spin was very lazy to start, although it has got better after 4 spin cycles and appeared to reach maximum speed.

A trickle of water also comes out of the drain pipe, when the machine is agitating – I think this is a sign of a worn pump, although the trickle does not really make much difference to the huge amount of water that the machine holds and so I think I shall leave this alone.

Anyway, the main faults list contains:

1. Rust spots on cabinet, which needs stripping and repainting.
2.Leak from support shaft – seems to be coming from the little pressed holes.
3.Shaft on which the agitator fits has side-to-side play. Unsure of cause – a bearing perhaps?
4.On spin, there is a metallic clanking noise and the agitator is not sitting square when spinning – plus the drum is unbalanced – maybe a result of no. three.
5. Very rotten aluminium base plate beneath the agitator. I suspect its retaining bolts will snap off straight away, meaning the drum will have to come out.

At the very least, the machine shall need a drum seal kit, maybe a tripod, maybe the base plate replacing (it looks to be made from aluminium but is fairly rotten, with chunks missing from it), maybe a upper bearing (what do you think?) the bellows seal in the outer drum replacing and the cabinet repainting.

I am in two minds; if I can obtain the parts cheap enough, it may be worth me renovating the cabinet, top plate and spending the time on the machine. Alternatively, I could break the machine up for parts and scrap the remains, to get at least some of my £50 outlay back. The lid is in good order, as are the buttons, heater, thermostats, flyback, knobs, rear cover, timer etc. I am holiday for a week from tomorrow, so I shall mull it over…

Pics attached… your thoughts, guidance and help are appreciated.

R

 

[sesteve]

Hi Rob

Well it sounds like a challenge if nothing else. Personally I would give it a go for restoration as its really satisfying getting these going again. The cabinet for this model is basically the same for all later models so if you can get hold of a donor machine with one in good condition then you could replace it if you didn't want to try and repair the rust. Later models had a couple of extra screws in the bottom front and a plastic rivet in the top at the front but that wouldn't stop you swapping them. You might be able to get the kickstrip off too so you could attach to a new cabinet.

With regards to the slow take up on spin - usually this is the clutch shoes but they look ok in the picture. They may need to be taken off and the mechanism cleaned up a bit to make sure they are free moving. The may have suffered with not being in use especially if it was damp from the leaks etc.

The leak sounds like it is the top seal rather than the bellows seal but its probably worth replacing both. There was a cheap seal kit on eBay but its gone - might be you but if not there is another for £25 at the moment. Its quite easy to do once you get the drive nut off but this might be a problem if there is lots of crud on it. You need a 3-legged puller, a blow torch and lots of patience!

Again, you can get a new bowl clamp kit for the bottom (link below) - that is the worst I have seen one of those in. I had to get one of these kits as the bolts were rusting on my 15792 and marking the laundry.

The pump dribble is a feature on all HP toploaders. Initially they seal but it only takes a bit of fluff on the flap valve to stop it sitting closed and then you get the dribble. Not a problem unless it gets to the point where the machine has to stop to fill.

Not sure how bad the play is that you mention. There is generally a bit of movement on these but if it is excessive and its been leaking a while then it could have caused further damage. I am wondering if the mounting has come off one of the suspension dampers if you are hearing metallic clanking and the unbalanced spin. That happened to my 1509 after I have moved it in the car but as it was the front one it was not obvious until I took the cabinet off. That might also make the agitator not look square when it is spinning.

Have a chew over and take the service manual on holiday for a bit of reading to see what you think lol. There aren't that many of these classics around and if you do get it back to working condition you will love to use it.

Cheers
S

Hotpoint Gearbox Bowl Clamp Ring Kit T/l 1509 15690 15790 15792 9600 9604 9605 96700 Includes Clamp/gasket/bolts.

Buy Hotpoint Gearbox Bowl Clamp Ring Kit T/l 1509 15690 15790 15792 9600 9604 9605 96700 Includes Clamp/gasket/bolts. online from Partmaster. Next Working Day UK Delivery and price match available.

www.partmaster.co.uk

 

[triumphdolomite]

Spares

Hi Rob
If its any use to you're welcome to have the 9600 that's been sitting in my shed for 15 years or so. As I recall it's got gearbox problems, leaking oil into the tub, I was only going to break it for spares when I had my 9605 but as usual never got round to it.
Ian.

 

[matchboxpaul]

Hi Rob.
Congrats on the new purchase - don't be too down heartened, as there will always be machines we buy that turn out to be rougher than we expect.

Thing is, magic can be worked on them - below is a photo of what was, after some detective work, to become my Hotpoint 1509/05 ...

 

[matchboxpaul]

minus the dust ...

 

[matchboxpaul]

and after some hard work from various people, here's how the machine turned out ...

 

[ooversanwashers]

triumphtoledo

I would keep it, you could try to jet wash it and go from there?
If you do decide not to keep it please tell me as I would love a project to help me learn how to fix replace and restore washers.
Thanks

 

[matchboxpaul]

I would certainly give your 1509/10 a chance of survival - externally just looks a bit weary.
Mechanically more than likely sortable and they are great machines, with the 1509 being a particularly characterful version courtesy of its styling and the /10 being the pinnacle.

Here's hoping!
Cheers
Paul

Hotpoint Automatic De Luxe 1509/05 - the Phoenix has arisen!

Hi all. In the wake of Lee's storming restoration job on his 1581/03, it gives me great pleasure to unveil another restored Amethyst Hotpoint. Many will remember Seamus' thread from last year, highlighting the plight of two machines sitting in a derelict school in Plymouth. One of the...

www.automaticwasher.org