aquacycle
Well-known member
Whatever you say.
Ladies and Gentleman, point proven.
Ladies and Gentleman, point proven.
How are Liquid Detergents Made?
- Thread starter liberatordeluxe
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liberatordeluxe
Well-known member
Your like a bunch of witches round a cauldron ganging up. GROW THE F UP!
aquacycle
Well-known member
Your like a bunch of witches round a cauldron ganging up
ever stopped for a second to ask yourself why? Maybe you should take on bored a bit of advice once in a while and we can hang our conical hat's up.
ever stopped for a second to ask yourself why? Maybe you should take on bored a bit of advice once in a while and we can hang our conical hat's up.
Here, Here! If you just need to know the manufacturing process & history of detergent, then click this:
-- Dave
-- Dave
liberatordeluxe
Well-known member
Im not listening to advice off you AquaCycle or Aquarius so not interested.
Thanks Dave for the link. That's all I wanted to know.
Thanks Dave for the link. That's all I wanted to know.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
You can't achieve at home about making what one refers to "laundry detergent"....unless you've a full chem laboratory with all the needed stuff...
Many chemicals are involved in it, things you can't simply get at home...petrolchemical and not only... there're also several made from vegetal substances like vegetable oils...
<span class="st">Alkyl benzene sulfonate to mention one, and other various blends of chemicals you can't simply get ready at home...
Before someone would think this, unlikely to be anyway, but I mention it anyway:
All the DIY recipes you could find online are more </span>correct to be called soaps, even though contain borax and soda, baking soda and oxy stuff, are based on soap...which makes them more similar to a laundry soap than "syntethic" detergents we're used to think about liquid detergents...
In fact two totally different things....I don't really know step by step the procedure for making liquid laundry detergents, nor the powders....
But I think the powders and liquid are made thanks to both liquid and solid ingredients, needless to say liquids do have a different composition than powders (are just not the same thing but in liquid form). They though do have some components and surfactans in common like the one I mentioned before (which is one of the main component in about every detergent powder or liquids), then others you may find are Sodium Lauril Sulfate or Alchil-poli-glucosides, I believe some initially comes in "liquid" form or anyway are obtained thanks to a "wet" reaction, but detergents are obtained also with ingredients in solid form, left solid in powders and in solution for liquids...
All I know is that I've read somewhere that for the production of powders you'd need an atomization tower, thing that leads me to think that infact some ingredients for powders needs to be dehydrated in this atomization tower.....of course....
So actually I think solid components for liquids are brought in solution, and liquids components for powders are dehydrated....
Many chemicals are involved in it, things you can't simply get at home...petrolchemical and not only... there're also several made from vegetal substances like vegetable oils...
<span class="st">Alkyl benzene sulfonate to mention one, and other various blends of chemicals you can't simply get ready at home...
Before someone would think this, unlikely to be anyway, but I mention it anyway:
All the DIY recipes you could find online are more </span>correct to be called soaps, even though contain borax and soda, baking soda and oxy stuff, are based on soap...which makes them more similar to a laundry soap than "syntethic" detergents we're used to think about liquid detergents...
In fact two totally different things....I don't really know step by step the procedure for making liquid laundry detergents, nor the powders....
But I think the powders and liquid are made thanks to both liquid and solid ingredients, needless to say liquids do have a different composition than powders (are just not the same thing but in liquid form). They though do have some components and surfactans in common like the one I mentioned before (which is one of the main component in about every detergent powder or liquids), then others you may find are Sodium Lauril Sulfate or Alchil-poli-glucosides, I believe some initially comes in "liquid" form or anyway are obtained thanks to a "wet" reaction, but detergents are obtained also with ingredients in solid form, left solid in powders and in solution for liquids...
All I know is that I've read somewhere that for the production of powders you'd need an atomization tower, thing that leads me to think that infact some ingredients for powders needs to be dehydrated in this atomization tower.....of course....
So actually I think solid components for liquids are brought in solution, and liquids components for powders are dehydrated....
liberatordeluxe
Well-known member
Thanks for info Kenmore.
spoodles
Well-known member
YOU'RE like a bunch of witches...
Cheers!
If you wanted to know the answer to something and the answer is given, try saying thanks or even acknowledging that people bothered to post it, instead of ignoring it in favour of asking "Where can I buy Tide?" and resorting to name calling.
Cheers!
If you wanted to know the answer to something and the answer is given, try saying thanks or even acknowledging that people bothered to post it, instead of ignoring it in favour of asking "Where can I buy Tide?" and resorting to name calling.
liberatordeluxe
Well-known member
I did say thanks! Don't you read?
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Found this...maybe can help a little more:
I see we need to bring in the big guns on this one children....
think about what you are saying and to whom in any given thread......your reputation and such is based on how you come across......if it acts like, and behaves like, and talks like........it's gonna get responded like, accordingly!...on this or any other website, as well as in real life!
its what I say to my children, not that they listen either, but you will catch more bees with honey than you will with vinegar in your rinse water!
maybe even a refresher course to our rules and regulations of this website may be in order, not a command, just some good advise!....and maybe bring some maturity to the table next time....
now if we can get back on subject......try this link for one manufacturer, and check others as well.....they list their ingredients, and in what order by quantity.....but does make you wonder how it is created!
www.thecloroxcompany.com
think about what you are saying and to whom in any given thread......your reputation and such is based on how you come across......if it acts like, and behaves like, and talks like........it's gonna get responded like, accordingly!...on this or any other website, as well as in real life!
its what I say to my children, not that they listen either, but you will catch more bees with honey than you will with vinegar in your rinse water!
maybe even a refresher course to our rules and regulations of this website may be in order, not a command, just some good advise!....and maybe bring some maturity to the table next time....
now if we can get back on subject......try this link for one manufacturer, and check others as well.....they list their ingredients, and in what order by quantity.....but does make you wonder how it is created!
Ingredients Brands Listing | The Clorox Company
The Clorox Company champions people to be well & thrive every single day. Get company news, learn what’s in our products and search job opportunities.
www.thecloroxcompany.com
paulc
Well-known member
Further reading
In regards to the 3 chamber pods, originally developed and marketed as Tide pods then re branded as Ariel and rolled out across Europe.Designed to dissolve in three stages.
www.talkingretail.com
In regards to the 3 chamber pods, originally developed and marketed as Tide pods then re branded as Ariel and rolled out across Europe.Designed to dissolve in three stages.
Ariel unveils new 3in1 Pods | Talking Retail
Category-innovating laundry brand, Ariel, is set to revolutionise the fabricare market this summer with the launch of its latest technological advancement, Ariel 3in1 Pods.
www.talkingretail.com
Thank you Yogitunes, for your recommendations. It's sound advice, I hope that its heeded. This is actually quite an interesting thread, it's just difficult weed through the chafe.
There are allot of very well informed people on this site, who are very kind to offer their knowledge and insights. I hope we can keep sight of that and appreciate what everyone has to offer.
I know that I'm an infrequent poster here and hope that I'm not speaking out of turn but felt the need to offer my opinion.
Todd
There are allot of very well informed people on this site, who are very kind to offer their knowledge and insights. I hope we can keep sight of that and appreciate what everyone has to offer.
I know that I'm an infrequent poster here and hope that I'm not speaking out of turn but felt the need to offer my opinion.
Todd
Think
It would be interesting to do a tour/walk thru of a detergent manufacturing facility.
Then again if we knew everything that is used, and where it came from, and mixed in, we might run out screaming LOL.
Ben. I'm curious about your concern with animal fat? Animal fat "tallow" (beef) is used in some soaps, but I'm not aware of it used in detergents here in the U.S ?
Some detergents there ( Persil ) have some soap added to the mixi, but is animal fat used to create that soap?
Dri Pac Soap Flakes that are made there, are all veg fats. Or at least I thought so?
It would be interesting to do a tour/walk thru of a detergent manufacturing facility.
Then again if we knew everything that is used, and where it came from, and mixed in, we might run out screaming LOL.
Ben. I'm curious about your concern with animal fat? Animal fat "tallow" (beef) is used in some soaps, but I'm not aware of it used in detergents here in the U.S ?
Some detergents there ( Persil ) have some soap added to the mixi, but is animal fat used to create that soap?
Dri Pac Soap Flakes that are made there, are all veg fats. Or at least I thought so?
mrb627
Well-known member
American Detergents
In regards to American Detergents, I do not believe there are any American offerings that can stand the higher washing temperatures preferred in other countries. They simply burst into foam. I can't help wondering that they may be designed to do this on purpose to persuade the American to wash in cooler temperatures. A conspiracy!
Malcolm
In regards to American Detergents, I do not believe there are any American offerings that can stand the higher washing temperatures preferred in other countries. They simply burst into foam. I can't help wondering that they may be designed to do this on purpose to persuade the American to wash in cooler temperatures. A conspiracy!
Malcolm
And now that most new US washers have a maximum wash temperature of around 105 degrees F, detergents will be formulated to clean well in ever-cooler temps.
Moral of the story: Buy a washer that has an internal water heater if you want to wash in temperatures high enough to, oh, I don't know...kill active dry yeast!
Aside: I enjoy when the Brits bicker. I think it's because of their awesome accents!
Moral of the story: Buy a washer that has an internal water heater if you want to wash in temperatures high enough to, oh, I don't know...kill active dry yeast!
Aside: I enjoy when the Brits bicker. I think it's because of their awesome accents!
superelectronic
Well-known member
Aside: I enjoy when the Brits bicker. I think it's becau
Somehow I doubt any of this feuding has been conducted in cut-glass RP accents. It's more like a screetching cat fight outside some parochial nightclub in the early hours, complete with face slapping, hair pulling and accusations of who's been looking at whose man... Classy.
Somehow I doubt any of this feuding has been conducted in cut-glass RP accents. It's more like a screetching cat fight outside some parochial nightclub in the early hours, complete with face slapping, hair pulling and accusations of who's been looking at whose man... Classy.
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Malcolm....I just do not know if you refer as foamy hot washes just the ones in FL's and with HE stuff...for what I could experience while using american HE in boilwash in a FL and the regular detergents always in boilwash in an agitator (servis Twin Tub) they never sudsed up too much or at least I could not notice differences from the Dixan (Italian name for Persil) or the average european ones ..same is for powders..never got "burst in foam"... rather once 95°c is reached foam tend to dismount more than with 60°c or 40°c washes...
So I find your thoughts really curious...I could experience it differently.
Regarding washing temperatures in the US....I don't think this is callable a "preferrance".....nor that there's a cospiracy about it regarding detergents foaming on purpose (at least for now)..LOL. Even though Obama Government and all his ECO- BS manias:" let's save the planet, is dying, everybody do cool washes" and blah blh blah (that is the fashion of the moment about everywhere) are pushing for machines that just don't use water, and the little they use is colder, in response leading detergents makers follows these directives also, suggesting people to do the same, so choose cooler washes instead thanks to their phantom "improvements" to their detergents...but I do not think they arrived to do what you say.....again, my personal experience is different.
I think the fact that in the USA boilwashes are not common is not imputable to a preferrance....
It's just that averagely with the TL agitators there was not the need to use high/boiling temperatures as it is required for front loaders to do the job....differently than europe, central hot water lines/heaters in homes developped way earlier in the USA, fact that made machines coming without it since early days as not needed for the most, and running on simple 120 volt (otherwise higher voltage supply would have been needed for the built in heater) so this since the "age of wringer washers", and again, differently than most of Europe they used to be (averagely) directly filled from hot water tap in case of wringers and connected to it for automatics, thing that could not happen elsewhwere in Europe where even agitator machines would come with their own heater since central water lines were still not that common...and later also automatics (machines that as we know in Europe are most of the FL kind)...
Exception is a country like UK that would make double fill automatics (mosly FL's but also TL's) since the early days of automatics because of earlier and more common developping of central water lines than rest of Europe, even though still making machines with heaters also reaching boiling point or heating water theirselves whenever there was not an hot water tap connection ( situation that was anyway more likely to be than USA),... the things in UK were held slightly differently than rest of europe in this sense....and even there the FL kind was, in the long run, "preferred" mostly, as it allowed savings in matter of electricity/energy for reasons above, and so like through all the europe the "savings" matter won (Energy/electricity as we all know in europe always been historically way more expensive than USA, matter that played actually a crucial point to the fact that in europe the FL or H axis set up was generally preferred to agitator type of machines, this since, as we can realize, it generally required less energy to heat the less wash water they used than agitator kinds ) this with a series of others facts like laundry areas locations spaces etc....
There is to say that actually the "boilwash" became part of usual washing habits for europeans in the past for these reasons, that's true... and that's why an European could find absurd the fact that an american machine does not " boil" water (thing I could hear very often) , and for this reasons would think it does not wash good by not realizing that "boilwash" isn't actually needed with them.....
Then if we want to say it all....nowadays there're really few people (FL's owners) who would still run very hot washes on a regular basis even here in Europe, or at least the same way it was used in the past, I mean with temps higher than 60°c...this is because laundry habits changed, subsantially laundry is no longer brought as dirt as it was once....you put in this mix the trend of people to make mixed washes with other fabrics kinds (mixed synthetics and now even colored, things "unthinkable" back then) and you get very few people who would do boilwashes on a regular basis....
But this is related to other speeches I already made on here....
Then, also like it is in the USA, various international agreements about this " Green freaks" policy , things agreed mainly also with governments of the EU zone, created a disposition pushing toward this "Eco-saving fashion", and this tendency is spreading just about everywhere and everything (HE appliances or Class A+ in Europe, cars, etc...), but of course this is well known.....so even here in Europe you've many detergent makers that now suggest low temperature washings always more, claiming you no longer need hot washes and you could get same results with 40°c as if it was 60°c etc.. same is for machines manufcturers....
Anyway...all this to say that I found american detergents to be just perfect for "hot washes" and can't really understand how one could say the opposite, at least my experiences were totally different from your one Malcolm.
I just do not know how we arrived to speak about american detergents in a thread called "how liquids detergents are made"....
But if someone wants to get american detergents I'd just don't suggest ebay (which with the recent USPS postage increase do have CRAZY costs, not to mention stuff is usually more expensive there) but I'd suggest this service called "my american shopper" who would purchase on your behalf from any american store and ship stuff to your door just about everywhere you're, Europe is fully served anyway, ....this with reasonable shipping fees way lower than USPS ( with DHL courrier) this thanks I imagine to the large amount of packages they moves... thus getting a pre-calculated amount of customs fees with the possibility to have them pre-paid and avoid unexpected "tips" to the delivery guy...
It's a nice service, I use it often...
[this post was last edited: 7/25/2013-15:16]
So I find your thoughts really curious...I could experience it differently.
Regarding washing temperatures in the US....I don't think this is callable a "preferrance".....nor that there's a cospiracy about it regarding detergents foaming on purpose (at least for now)..LOL. Even though Obama Government and all his ECO- BS manias:" let's save the planet, is dying, everybody do cool washes" and blah blh blah (that is the fashion of the moment about everywhere) are pushing for machines that just don't use water, and the little they use is colder, in response leading detergents makers follows these directives also, suggesting people to do the same, so choose cooler washes instead thanks to their phantom "improvements" to their detergents...but I do not think they arrived to do what you say.....again, my personal experience is different.
I think the fact that in the USA boilwashes are not common is not imputable to a preferrance....
It's just that averagely with the TL agitators there was not the need to use high/boiling temperatures as it is required for front loaders to do the job....differently than europe, central hot water lines/heaters in homes developped way earlier in the USA, fact that made machines coming without it since early days as not needed for the most, and running on simple 120 volt (otherwise higher voltage supply would have been needed for the built in heater) so this since the "age of wringer washers", and again, differently than most of Europe they used to be (averagely) directly filled from hot water tap in case of wringers and connected to it for automatics, thing that could not happen elsewhwere in Europe where even agitator machines would come with their own heater since central water lines were still not that common...and later also automatics (machines that as we know in Europe are most of the FL kind)...
Exception is a country like UK that would make double fill automatics (mosly FL's but also TL's) since the early days of automatics because of earlier and more common developping of central water lines than rest of Europe, even though still making machines with heaters also reaching boiling point or heating water theirselves whenever there was not an hot water tap connection ( situation that was anyway more likely to be than USA),... the things in UK were held slightly differently than rest of europe in this sense....and even there the FL kind was, in the long run, "preferred" mostly, as it allowed savings in matter of electricity/energy for reasons above, and so like through all the europe the "savings" matter won (Energy/electricity as we all know in europe always been historically way more expensive than USA, matter that played actually a crucial point to the fact that in europe the FL or H axis set up was generally preferred to agitator type of machines, this since, as we can realize, it generally required less energy to heat the less wash water they used than agitator kinds ) this with a series of others facts like laundry areas locations spaces etc....
There is to say that actually the "boilwash" became part of usual washing habits for europeans in the past for these reasons, that's true... and that's why an European could find absurd the fact that an american machine does not " boil" water (thing I could hear very often) , and for this reasons would think it does not wash good by not realizing that "boilwash" isn't actually needed with them.....
Then if we want to say it all....nowadays there're really few people (FL's owners) who would still run very hot washes on a regular basis even here in Europe, or at least the same way it was used in the past, I mean with temps higher than 60°c...this is because laundry habits changed, subsantially laundry is no longer brought as dirt as it was once....you put in this mix the trend of people to make mixed washes with other fabrics kinds (mixed synthetics and now even colored, things "unthinkable" back then) and you get very few people who would do boilwashes on a regular basis....
But this is related to other speeches I already made on here....
Then, also like it is in the USA, various international agreements about this " Green freaks" policy , things agreed mainly also with governments of the EU zone, created a disposition pushing toward this "Eco-saving fashion", and this tendency is spreading just about everywhere and everything (HE appliances or Class A+ in Europe, cars, etc...), but of course this is well known.....so even here in Europe you've many detergent makers that now suggest low temperature washings always more, claiming you no longer need hot washes and you could get same results with 40°c as if it was 60°c etc.. same is for machines manufcturers....
Anyway...all this to say that I found american detergents to be just perfect for "hot washes" and can't really understand how one could say the opposite, at least my experiences were totally different from your one Malcolm.
I just do not know how we arrived to speak about american detergents in a thread called "how liquids detergents are made"....
But if someone wants to get american detergents I'd just don't suggest ebay (which with the recent USPS postage increase do have CRAZY costs, not to mention stuff is usually more expensive there) but I'd suggest this service called "my american shopper" who would purchase on your behalf from any american store and ship stuff to your door just about everywhere you're, Europe is fully served anyway, ....this with reasonable shipping fees way lower than USPS ( with DHL courrier) this thanks I imagine to the large amount of packages they moves... thus getting a pre-calculated amount of customs fees with the possibility to have them pre-paid and avoid unexpected "tips" to the delivery guy...
It's a nice service, I use it often...
[this post was last edited: 7/25/2013-15:16]
not so much as "American" detergents, as to each manufacturer ma make for their own country as well as others, and then have to compensate for washer types, and washing conditions....not to mention maybe regulations of phosphates....here in the US and other areas, its regulated, other parts of the world its not!...
jumping over to keeping liquids in suspension, my thoughts were we had hand dishwashing liquids for years, but getting the housewife to change from heavy duty trusted powder to a liquid, and only using a small cap, and convince her its gonna give the same cleaning power was not easy at first.....this was the late 70's early 80's, today its common place...people don't take to change right away...they got us in the US to change to FLer's, not so bad....the real challenge is the extra low water usage...and their only choice is to force them into it, by govt regulations, and eliminating traditional TLer's.....not everything comes easy....
now their trying, yet again, to get us into these little packets, one drop per wash....we have been there before, seems like another fad.....we had decades ago Salvo tablets, Tide Purex, Wisk and countless others have had a tablet or packet one way or another.....even the dishwasher is a tablet.....some like them, some don't....bottom line is your paying a higher price for that convenience, or thoughtless attitude towards laundry, throw it in and walk away!...most don't pay attention to washing like they used to....
I don't think were getting off track here on this titled thread, its interesting of how their made, and to whats put in them versus a powder, pros and cons....there doesn't seem to be enough info for us to find out, like its a big secret.....but yeah, their definately working on making them work better in cooler temps......but we have already had that before...ColdPower, AllTempCheer.....
their just trying to build a better mouse trap!
jumping over to keeping liquids in suspension, my thoughts were we had hand dishwashing liquids for years, but getting the housewife to change from heavy duty trusted powder to a liquid, and only using a small cap, and convince her its gonna give the same cleaning power was not easy at first.....this was the late 70's early 80's, today its common place...people don't take to change right away...they got us in the US to change to FLer's, not so bad....the real challenge is the extra low water usage...and their only choice is to force them into it, by govt regulations, and eliminating traditional TLer's.....not everything comes easy....
now their trying, yet again, to get us into these little packets, one drop per wash....we have been there before, seems like another fad.....we had decades ago Salvo tablets, Tide Purex, Wisk and countless others have had a tablet or packet one way or another.....even the dishwasher is a tablet.....some like them, some don't....bottom line is your paying a higher price for that convenience, or thoughtless attitude towards laundry, throw it in and walk away!...most don't pay attention to washing like they used to....
I don't think were getting off track here on this titled thread, its interesting of how their made, and to whats put in them versus a powder, pros and cons....there doesn't seem to be enough info for us to find out, like its a big secret.....but yeah, their definately working on making them work better in cooler temps......but we have already had that before...ColdPower, AllTempCheer.....
their just trying to build a better mouse trap!
Pods: They've already grabbed a larger market share than old-school tablets like Salvo did back in the day. I'm betting the farm they'll keep improving and become the #1 detergent format. Just don't eat them.
Tide's pods are brightly-colored and marketing is obviously aimed at the college-age/20's set. If those comsumers remain loyal to the format, it will take over---just as liquids have trumped powders (at least in sales). I've also noticed they've been moved to prime shelf space in some stores, probably due to incentives from Proctor & Gamble. Note: Kirkland Signature Ultra Clean Pods (Costco) recently beat out Tide Pods as the best-cleaning of the format--albeit by only 2 points--at CR.
Convenience is a big factor with these, and, as we recall, liquids took off in a big way once they were marketed as being more convenient than powders. You can put a couple of them in your pocket and head down to the laundry room in your apartment building/dorm, or you can drag a big jug of liquid with you.
It's only a matter of time.[this post was last edited: 7/25/2013-16:21]
Tide's pods are brightly-colored and marketing is obviously aimed at the college-age/20's set. If those comsumers remain loyal to the format, it will take over---just as liquids have trumped powders (at least in sales). I've also noticed they've been moved to prime shelf space in some stores, probably due to incentives from Proctor & Gamble. Note: Kirkland Signature Ultra Clean Pods (Costco) recently beat out Tide Pods as the best-cleaning of the format--albeit by only 2 points--at CR.
Convenience is a big factor with these, and, as we recall, liquids took off in a big way once they were marketed as being more convenient than powders. You can put a couple of them in your pocket and head down to the laundry room in your apartment building/dorm, or you can drag a big jug of liquid with you.
It's only a matter of time.[this post was last edited: 7/25/2013-16:21]
