How are your appliances connected
- Thread starter mielabor
- Start date
Help Support :
Better fared have the other type of transformer buildings, the "pepper shakers". These are still erected to replace older models. The older models are made of steel. The new version is made of concrete. Here is a steel "pepper shaker".
Reply to post# 272432:
The hot water can be a byproduct of electricity production. So theoretically it is waste that is put to good use. In some newly built up areas in Amsterdam (e.g. "IJburg") all hot water comes from a central supply too. There is no gas supply so one is forced to cook electrically and use the generated hot water for washing and heating the house. However, although this is designed as an energy efficient system it turns out that in practice the running costs are higher than when ordinary gas heaters had been used.
Condensation in high rise building flues: I don't think that can be a problem. When you have a high-efficiency furnace the combustion product will condense anyway, even with a flue that is as short as one metre. Flues of high-efficiency furnaces are always connected to a sewer pipe. In newer apartment buildings and sometimes also in apartments that have been renovated, the flues of furnaces do not end on the roof but are running through the side walls. So no matter the height of the building the length of the flue will be the same on every floor.
The hot water can be a byproduct of electricity production. So theoretically it is waste that is put to good use. In some newly built up areas in Amsterdam (e.g. "IJburg") all hot water comes from a central supply too. There is no gas supply so one is forced to cook electrically and use the generated hot water for washing and heating the house. However, although this is designed as an energy efficient system it turns out that in practice the running costs are higher than when ordinary gas heaters had been used.
Condensation in high rise building flues: I don't think that can be a problem. When you have a high-efficiency furnace the combustion product will condense anyway, even with a flue that is as short as one metre. Flues of high-efficiency furnaces are always connected to a sewer pipe. In newer apartment buildings and sometimes also in apartments that have been renovated, the flues of furnaces do not end on the roof but are running through the side walls. So no matter the height of the building the length of the flue will be the same on every floor.
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,685
To Steve:
I have no idea how far is the heating plant but I believe it's a small one enclosed in some of the other buildings since mine is a pure residential area and no kind of industry is allowed. I'm going to investigate this tomorrow and will tell you.
To me is cheaper to pay the water company for hot water, it's around 6 € per 1000 L of hot water (US guys: 3,6 cents per gallon) plus I have no maintenance fees for my boiler (around 100€ per year because of compulsory quality checks) and no methane or oil to pay.
Electric water heating is used, with small boilers like in Holland, but it is very energy UN-wise and not economic. Electricity at current prices is around 0,23 € /KWh (US friends: 0,36$ per KWh).
Gas and oil are up to 50% cheaper than electricity but as I said if I can choose I like to get already hot water. The best situation would be like my parents have: solar heating plus gas back-up boiler used for also recirculation of water. This allows them to spend something like only 30 € of gas in the summer months from May to October. Also in winter they have an inlet temperature of around 35-40 °C compared to 7°C at the weel (yup, they have a private old fashioned weel).
I have no idea how far is the heating plant but I believe it's a small one enclosed in some of the other buildings since mine is a pure residential area and no kind of industry is allowed. I'm going to investigate this tomorrow and will tell you.
To me is cheaper to pay the water company for hot water, it's around 6 € per 1000 L of hot water (US guys: 3,6 cents per gallon) plus I have no maintenance fees for my boiler (around 100€ per year because of compulsory quality checks) and no methane or oil to pay.
Electric water heating is used, with small boilers like in Holland, but it is very energy UN-wise and not economic. Electricity at current prices is around 0,23 € /KWh (US friends: 0,36$ per KWh).
Gas and oil are up to 50% cheaper than electricity but as I said if I can choose I like to get already hot water. The best situation would be like my parents have: solar heating plus gas back-up boiler used for also recirculation of water. This allows them to spend something like only 30 € of gas in the summer months from May to October. Also in winter they have an inlet temperature of around 35-40 °C compared to 7°C at the weel (yup, they have a private old fashioned weel).
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,685
Oh, about cogeneration (using waste heat in electricity producion) in Ferrara, a city near Bologna, almost all the hot water and heating is done this way. They have the incinerators that serve the Bologna metropolitan area and with the burning of our trash, via a system of heat pumps generate electricity and heat in a very efficient manner, around 85% of combined efficency, I think that the network runs with superheated water at 110°C and quite some bars of pressure.
About condensing in pipes: My parents heater/boiler is one of the condensing units, fumes get out of the chimney at only 55/60°C and in cold days you can see the condensate even before getting to the outlet, at times ice forms right on the outside of the chimney. Also the chimney is connected, on the inside, to a waste water pipe in a continuous drain and of course it's enamelled so it doesn't corrode even with liquids (installed in 2003 and still no signs of corrosion).
About condensing in pipes: My parents heater/boiler is one of the condensing units, fumes get out of the chimney at only 55/60°C and in cold days you can see the condensate even before getting to the outlet, at times ice forms right on the outside of the chimney. Also the chimney is connected, on the inside, to a waste water pipe in a continuous drain and of course it's enamelled so it doesn't corrode even with liquids (installed in 2003 and still no signs of corrosion).
Understood, thank you. I'm not sure that huge boilers for huge buildings are availabe as condensing types. Even if they are available, these boilers tend to be a bit more complicated and prone to break-downs. May not be wise in an indutrial/commerical setting.
Oil-delivery trucks blocking traffic circulation and fuel-oil storage tanks become an issue. (Traffic in many parts of Manhattan is hell). I'm not confident, either, that the gas mains in Manhattan could handle it if the skyscrapers of say 100 stories (levels) and smaller buildngs all came on-line seeking huge-demand gas service.
Also, at or below 20*F (-7*C) the gas companies require large industrial/commerical users of natural gas to stop using it. (Of course you'd have an interuptible-service agreement with a huge finanical incentive i.e. lowered rates). In order to GET gas service, if your usage is that large one has to to sign such an agreement. So FEH to natural gas. [There are gas/-oil burners with automatic change-over that receive signals over a telephone line as to when to change over to/from gas. The thinking is that on very cold days more gas is used than comes out of the earth. Forcing huge users to stop using gas ensures a supply (at adequate pressure) for homes and small commerical users.
In New York City commerical users of electricity pay a "penalty" fee for their greatest demand at one time. This makes eletricity extremely exopensive to them. As such, many larger buildings use city STEAM for air-conditioning. Some coolers are absorption principle, others are driven by steam-trubines. (then the "spent" steam [desuperheated] makes hot water for the taps or maybe goes to a second absortion unit.
BTW, more and more new large apartmetns buildings use hotel-style PTAC (Packaged Terminal Air-Condtioners). Some use hot water through coils for heat, others use a heat pump with back-up electric reisitance coils. Method #2 allows for tenants to pay for their own heat. The utilites like all-electric units in that the electircal demand in winter is greater-utilized, which makes for greater COST efficiencies (for the utlity). Even when such units are used, cooking tends to be gas, and hot water is centralized, being provided by the building using steam or a fossil-fuel.
Managing electrical demand at peak times is critical in NYC. Strangely, some newer Manhattan apartments have electric cooking, but that is because many Manhattanites don't use their stoves!
(Can you just picture our very own Launderess frying-up some chicken, okra and collard beans with corn-bread!) I can!
Oil-delivery trucks blocking traffic circulation and fuel-oil storage tanks become an issue. (Traffic in many parts of Manhattan is hell). I'm not confident, either, that the gas mains in Manhattan could handle it if the skyscrapers of say 100 stories (levels) and smaller buildngs all came on-line seeking huge-demand gas service.
Also, at or below 20*F (-7*C) the gas companies require large industrial/commerical users of natural gas to stop using it. (Of course you'd have an interuptible-service agreement with a huge finanical incentive i.e. lowered rates). In order to GET gas service, if your usage is that large one has to to sign such an agreement. So FEH to natural gas. [There are gas/-oil burners with automatic change-over that receive signals over a telephone line as to when to change over to/from gas. The thinking is that on very cold days more gas is used than comes out of the earth. Forcing huge users to stop using gas ensures a supply (at adequate pressure) for homes and small commerical users.
In New York City commerical users of electricity pay a "penalty" fee for their greatest demand at one time. This makes eletricity extremely exopensive to them. As such, many larger buildings use city STEAM for air-conditioning. Some coolers are absorption principle, others are driven by steam-trubines. (then the "spent" steam [desuperheated] makes hot water for the taps or maybe goes to a second absortion unit.
BTW, more and more new large apartmetns buildings use hotel-style PTAC (Packaged Terminal Air-Condtioners). Some use hot water through coils for heat, others use a heat pump with back-up electric reisitance coils. Method #2 allows for tenants to pay for their own heat. The utilites like all-electric units in that the electircal demand in winter is greater-utilized, which makes for greater COST efficiencies (for the utlity). Even when such units are used, cooking tends to be gas, and hot water is centralized, being provided by the building using steam or a fossil-fuel.
Managing electrical demand at peak times is critical in NYC. Strangely, some newer Manhattan apartments have electric cooking, but that is because many Manhattanites don't use their stoves!
(Can you just picture our very own Launderess frying-up some chicken, okra and collard beans with corn-bread!) I can!
Amana-PTAC Heating and Air Conditioning Solutions
Looking for reliable Packaged Terminal Air Conditioners? Check out industry-leading Amana brand durable PTACs to enjoy comfort at your home or office.
www.amana-ptac.com
Thanks Theo and all for the information
~The heat content or caloric value of gas is not expressed as kW but as MJ/m3.
Understood. If I were to buy an air-conditioner when I hit the lottery *BIG* and move to England, France, Greece or the Netherlands, what would the size (heat moving abilty/capacity) be rated (what units?) I thought that might be KW. How many KW would I need for one room? for three rooms? etc.
~The heat content or caloric value of gas is not expressed as kW but as MJ/m3.
Understood. If I were to buy an air-conditioner when I hit the lottery *BIG* and move to England, France, Greece or the Netherlands, what would the size (heat moving abilty/capacity) be rated (what units?) I thought that might be KW. How many KW would I need for one room? for three rooms? etc.
oh *WAVES AGAIN* we DO vent furnaces throught the side-wall too. But I can't picture a flue for a huge building (say two metres/yards wide) blowing out the side of a building.
Knowing my mouth, someone here will prove me wrong! LOL
Knowing my mouth, someone here will prove me wrong! LOL
Sorry to be a pest. Enquiring minds want to know!
~It worked like that till we switched from the two hot wires system to the hot wire + neutral system.
So at the time of conversion to a hot and a neutral wire
So Theo.........
Were all the neutals made unswithced and uninteruuped?
Were they allowed to remain permanently?
Were they converted to unswithced and uninteruuped later in time.
How about in new construction/renovations? still 2-pole switches etc?
Was this how all of Europe converted over to 220v?
Also when did the Metric system come into widspread use and what systems of meaurement were used before it? ... (I am intrigued by the use of English sizes in the Netherlands for hose connection etc. )
~It worked like that till we switched from the two hot wires system to the hot wire + neutral system.
So at the time of conversion to a hot and a neutral wire
So Theo.........
Were all the neutals made unswithced and uninteruuped?
Were they allowed to remain permanently?
Were they converted to unswithced and uninteruuped later in time.
How about in new construction/renovations? still 2-pole switches etc?
Was this how all of Europe converted over to 220v?
Also when did the Metric system come into widspread use and what systems of meaurement were used before it? ... (I am intrigued by the use of English sizes in the Netherlands for hose connection etc. )
We have a 6.8kw cool/8kw heat Reverse Cycle heat pump, that cools and heats an area of 4.5m by 8.5m.
Prior to Metrication, we used Imperial Units and even today, copper pipes and tap fittings are still referred to in Imperial units. Colloquially that is, scientifically they are converted to mm.
Washing machine taps etc are 1/2 inch (But a different thread to the US) large outside taps are 3/4 inch. Copper water pipes are usually 1/4 or 1/2 inch. Galvenised pipes are a minimum of 1/2 inch usually.
Waste pipes are measured in mm which are usually described as Mils in the same way we describe mL.
Prior to Metrication, we used Imperial Units and even today, copper pipes and tap fittings are still referred to in Imperial units. Colloquially that is, scientifically they are converted to mm.
Washing machine taps etc are 1/2 inch (But a different thread to the US) large outside taps are 3/4 inch. Copper water pipes are usually 1/4 or 1/2 inch. Galvenised pipes are a minimum of 1/2 inch usually.
Waste pipes are measured in mm which are usually described as Mils in the same way we describe mL.
Reply on post# 272482:
When moving to the Netherlands, having air-conditioning is not of primary concern as the outside temperature seldom rises over 30C (86F). I have a two-room apartment that is insolated on two sides (the other two sides are joining other apartments) so I have no windows that are in the shade. On sunny days in summer it can be hot inside and opening windows doesn't help much as hot air that rises up along the heated walls is the only refreshment I can get. I tried a portable airco with a capacity of 1500 watts of cooling power but I could only manage a temperature reduction from 35C to 32C and it made a lot of noise plus it used a lot of electricity. So I have abandoned it and just bear the heat. I think that the duration of the period that the temperature in my apartment is over 30C is about one month per year or so and usually split into several shorter periods.
So there you have it, there is not much information about air-conditioning available here in the Netherlands. I do not know of anyone who has it.
When moving to the Netherlands, having air-conditioning is not of primary concern as the outside temperature seldom rises over 30C (86F). I have a two-room apartment that is insolated on two sides (the other two sides are joining other apartments) so I have no windows that are in the shade. On sunny days in summer it can be hot inside and opening windows doesn't help much as hot air that rises up along the heated walls is the only refreshment I can get. I tried a portable airco with a capacity of 1500 watts of cooling power but I could only manage a temperature reduction from 35C to 32C and it made a lot of noise plus it used a lot of electricity. So I have abandoned it and just bear the heat. I think that the duration of the period that the temperature in my apartment is over 30C is about one month per year or so and usually split into several shorter periods.
So there you have it, there is not much information about air-conditioning available here in the Netherlands. I do not know of anyone who has it.
..."But I can't picture a flue for a huge building (say two metres/yards wide) blowing out the side of a building."...
Neither can I. Here every apartment has it's own furnace. Apartment buildings with a central furnace were built in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s but that set-up has fallen out of favour. Later apartment buildings and renovated apartment buildings have individual furnaces for each apartment with flues through the wall.
Neither can I. Here every apartment has it's own furnace. Apartment buildings with a central furnace were built in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s but that set-up has fallen out of favour. Later apartment buildings and renovated apartment buildings have individual furnaces for each apartment with flues through the wall.
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,685
The conversion from BTU to Watt/Hour is 1 Kwatt/hour = 3.412 btu
As an exampe again I can tell you that my house is fitted with split type reverse heat pump air conditioners that are really quiet (around 32 db at full power) and to cool a room of 3,5x3,5 metres (132 sqfeet) we needed to install a unit with a power of 2500Wh (it is 8500btu) and on really hot days (outside temp of 40°C) we can't get less than 26°C even after more than an hour of contiuous operation, shame on the double glass window that is 2,5x2,8 metres...
Also in Italy it was common (a bit less now) to name pipes according to their size in inches. Actually, if you ask for a 19 mm pipe you could see printed on the pipe the mark 3/4 inch too.
The same is for air conditioners, you see 3 marks: "frigorie", the same as calories but for cooling, BTU and KW hour.
The use of non S.I. units is illegal since the 1973 I think and before the wide adoption of the S.I. units there was the c.g.s. system (centimetre, gram, second) system that is called "the engeneering system" and used similar units to the S.I. system but had many interesting variaton like in the definition of an Ampere ond the force being expressed in KGF (Kilograms force) rather than Newtons.
We have the same conversion for gas as the one Theo pointed out, corrected for zone and gas type/density. This month we had a correction coefficent of 1,03. The LHV is of 38MJ/cubic metre so it's not real methane in the pipes (that would have been 49,98MJ/cubic metre) .
I called my water company today and I've asked them about the heating, well... I couldn't expect anything worse, I waited for something like 5 minutes and the girl at the phone didn't know a thing. Hopefully I was able to call the administrator for our condo and this is what he told me:
it turns out that the heater plant is on the building next to mine, at number 24, just under a sport suppiles retailer and the heating is via gas that derives from gassification of biomaterial (garbage I believe) but I think that the thing runs on "standard" gas like my hobs and it claims to use "greener energy sources" only because there is a "green certificates" campaign. Like when you buy the right to burn fossil fuel if somebody else generates energy in a enviromentally safe way for you and sells you the green certificate of clean energy production. I hope that it is clear, it's becoming a real mess in the energy generation field because of these "green certificates" market.
And again I hope my Italian-English is clear enough for you to undestand, there'll never be enough proof reading!
As an exampe again I can tell you that my house is fitted with split type reverse heat pump air conditioners that are really quiet (around 32 db at full power) and to cool a room of 3,5x3,5 metres (132 sqfeet) we needed to install a unit with a power of 2500Wh (it is 8500btu) and on really hot days (outside temp of 40°C) we can't get less than 26°C even after more than an hour of contiuous operation, shame on the double glass window that is 2,5x2,8 metres...
Also in Italy it was common (a bit less now) to name pipes according to their size in inches. Actually, if you ask for a 19 mm pipe you could see printed on the pipe the mark 3/4 inch too.
The same is for air conditioners, you see 3 marks: "frigorie", the same as calories but for cooling, BTU and KW hour.
The use of non S.I. units is illegal since the 1973 I think and before the wide adoption of the S.I. units there was the c.g.s. system (centimetre, gram, second) system that is called "the engeneering system" and used similar units to the S.I. system but had many interesting variaton like in the definition of an Ampere ond the force being expressed in KGF (Kilograms force) rather than Newtons.
We have the same conversion for gas as the one Theo pointed out, corrected for zone and gas type/density. This month we had a correction coefficent of 1,03. The LHV is of 38MJ/cubic metre so it's not real methane in the pipes (that would have been 49,98MJ/cubic metre) .
I called my water company today and I've asked them about the heating, well... I couldn't expect anything worse, I waited for something like 5 minutes and the girl at the phone didn't know a thing. Hopefully I was able to call the administrator for our condo and this is what he told me:
it turns out that the heater plant is on the building next to mine, at number 24, just under a sport suppiles retailer and the heating is via gas that derives from gassification of biomaterial (garbage I believe) but I think that the thing runs on "standard" gas like my hobs and it claims to use "greener energy sources" only because there is a "green certificates" campaign. Like when you buy the right to burn fossil fuel if somebody else generates energy in a enviromentally safe way for you and sells you the green certificate of clean energy production. I hope that it is clear, it's becoming a real mess in the energy generation field because of these "green certificates" market.
And again I hope my Italian-English is clear enough for you to undestand, there'll never be enough proof reading!
Answer to post# 272493:
Neutrals are sometimes switched and sometimes not. Ordinary light switches are single pole and only the hot wire is switched. For special situations, like bathrooms switches are two pole and neutral is also switched. Main switches in the fuse box are always double pole and the neutral is switched there too.
The switches have not been changed after the introduction of the neutral wire. With the two hot wires only one wire was switched in ordinary light switches. The only change is that the new fuse box that was installed has switches. Previously one could only switch off the electric circuits by removing the fuses. Also the new fuse box only has fuses for the hot wires. The neutral is not fused. The previous fuse box had two fuses per circuit.
The two hot wires system was not in general use in the Netherlands. As far as I know it was only used in the centre part of Amsterdam. The only other place that I know of where this system was used is Brussels in Belgium. Maybe they still use it there.
The metric system was forced upon us by the French during the French occupation in the early years of the nineteenth century. There was much opposition against the new units and when the French left in 1815 it was uncertain whether the metric system would be continued. However, in 1816 the "Dutch Metric System" was introduced and made compulsory by law. It was similar to the previous metric system except that the unit names were derived from old units. E.g. a kilogram was called "Dutch pound" and a kilometre was a "Dutch mile". The "Dutch Metric System" was abolished in 1870 and from that time the international unit names were used. Note that many people still use "pound" and "ounce" for 500 grams and 100 grams respectively although the use of these names has been illegal since 1937. So "Dutch pound" is 1000 grams and "pound" is 500 grams.
Nowadays almost every country uses the metric units. The only exceptions are the USA, Myanmar (Birma) and Liberia still use the imperial units. An odd company indeed
It is indeed curious that we still use inch sizes for pipe fittings (in Dutch we say "gas thread" for these sizes). I have no information that this will be changed in the near future.
Neutrals are sometimes switched and sometimes not. Ordinary light switches are single pole and only the hot wire is switched. For special situations, like bathrooms switches are two pole and neutral is also switched. Main switches in the fuse box are always double pole and the neutral is switched there too.
The switches have not been changed after the introduction of the neutral wire. With the two hot wires only one wire was switched in ordinary light switches. The only change is that the new fuse box that was installed has switches. Previously one could only switch off the electric circuits by removing the fuses. Also the new fuse box only has fuses for the hot wires. The neutral is not fused. The previous fuse box had two fuses per circuit.
The two hot wires system was not in general use in the Netherlands. As far as I know it was only used in the centre part of Amsterdam. The only other place that I know of where this system was used is Brussels in Belgium. Maybe they still use it there.
The metric system was forced upon us by the French during the French occupation in the early years of the nineteenth century. There was much opposition against the new units and when the French left in 1815 it was uncertain whether the metric system would be continued. However, in 1816 the "Dutch Metric System" was introduced and made compulsory by law. It was similar to the previous metric system except that the unit names were derived from old units. E.g. a kilogram was called "Dutch pound" and a kilometre was a "Dutch mile". The "Dutch Metric System" was abolished in 1870 and from that time the international unit names were used. Note that many people still use "pound" and "ounce" for 500 grams and 100 grams respectively although the use of these names has been illegal since 1937. So "Dutch pound" is 1000 grams and "pound" is 500 grams.
Nowadays almost every country uses the metric units. The only exceptions are the USA, Myanmar (Birma) and Liberia still use the imperial units. An odd company indeed
It is indeed curious that we still use inch sizes for pipe fittings (in Dutch we say "gas thread" for these sizes). I have no information that this will be changed in the near future.
Your English is fantastic, guys!
Better than mine!
Thanks everyone for all of your efforts and for going out of your way to get answers. What a truly magnificent group!
Better than mine!
Thanks everyone for all of your efforts and for going out of your way to get answers. What a truly magnificent group!
~we can't get less than 26°C even after more than an hour of contiuous operation, shame on the double glass window that is 2,5x2,8 metres...
One hour is probably not enough time. In concrete buildings there is a tremedous amount of heat stored in the concrete.
Also air-condtioners must be properly sized. Too big, and they won't dehumidify. Too small and they won't cool enough.
In my own house I added central air-condtioning and purposely sized it a bit too small (dehumdification is most important here. Smaller units run nearly constantly and dehumidify better]. I left the through-the wall-units in [that the house came with] for quick cooling. Once the room is cooler, only the central system runs.
I understand that Europe as a whole has a more temperate and
reasonable climate, which of course varies county-by-country. But I also do remember that due to climactic changes there were a large number of deaths in France during a relatively recent heat-wave. Attributable, perhaps to lack of residential A/C.
Hey Louis *WAVES* don't you have air-conditioning?
My aunt (who has had central air-conditoing since before 1970) goes back to visit her native Greece. She was complaining bitterly that there are (were? )no window screens there and that the bugs ate her up! Open the wondows and die of noise from motorcycles, bugs and dust. Close them and die of heat. *LOL* she was also annoyed that the windows she saw open "INWARDS" making blinds and shades imposible. It's all what you get used to, I guess...... In all fairness she loved the wrap-around balconies (the size of a large room) and huge glass "French" doors.
Of course now there are split-sytem reverse-cycle units showing up!
One hour is probably not enough time. In concrete buildings there is a tremedous amount of heat stored in the concrete.
Also air-condtioners must be properly sized. Too big, and they won't dehumidify. Too small and they won't cool enough.
In my own house I added central air-condtioning and purposely sized it a bit too small (dehumdification is most important here. Smaller units run nearly constantly and dehumidify better]. I left the through-the wall-units in [that the house came with] for quick cooling. Once the room is cooler, only the central system runs.
I understand that Europe as a whole has a more temperate and
reasonable climate, which of course varies county-by-country. But I also do remember that due to climactic changes there were a large number of deaths in France during a relatively recent heat-wave. Attributable, perhaps to lack of residential A/C.
Hey Louis *WAVES* don't you have air-conditioning?
My aunt (who has had central air-conditoing since before 1970) goes back to visit her native Greece. She was complaining bitterly that there are (were? )no window screens there and that the bugs ate her up! Open the wondows and die of noise from motorcycles, bugs and dust. Close them and die of heat. *LOL* she was also annoyed that the windows she saw open "INWARDS" making blinds and shades imposible. It's all what you get used to, I guess...... In all fairness she loved the wrap-around balconies (the size of a large room) and huge glass "French" doors.
Of course now there are split-sytem reverse-cycle units showing up!
~These sockets are the norm around here and are used for the 80% of white appliances and 100% of brown appliances.
OK white-good is major appliances. What are brown-goods?
Grey-goods (to me) means semi- or completely illegal products used in the U.S. that are inteded for other markets!
Ever seen cleaning-product brands (known in America) with Russian or Hebrew labels? I have. LOL
OK white-good is major appliances. What are brown-goods?
Grey-goods (to me) means semi- or completely illegal products used in the U.S. that are inteded for other markets!
Ever seen cleaning-product brands (known in America) with Russian or Hebrew labels? I have. LOL
Colours of Goods...!!!
White Goods - Washers, Dryers, Cooking & Refrigeration etc
Brown Goods - TV`s, Video, Hi-Fi, Audio etc
Pink Goods - Haircare, Razors, Beauty prods etc
Now off to photograph my utilities!!! very educational thread!!!
White Goods - Washers, Dryers, Cooking & Refrigeration etc
Brown Goods - TV`s, Video, Hi-Fi, Audio etc
Pink Goods - Haircare, Razors, Beauty prods etc
Now off to photograph my utilities!!! very educational thread!!!
Similar threads
