How Long Has This Been Going On?

[launderess]

Kept reading posts from various members how they added some carpet cleaning anti-foam agent to a wash load where over sudsing occured. This set my mind wandering and was off to do some research.

The most common anti-foaming agent is a type of silicone, and is used or every thing from detergents, spa/pools, crop spraying and in general anywhere froth needs to be knocked down.

Nabbed a bottle of Amway defoamer, and added a scant 1/4 teaspoon to a wash load using 1/2 cap of a normal liquid detergent (Cheer Free & Gentle, set the Miele to 120F, and waited. No suds! Well there may have been some but no where near the amount one usually finds from using non-HE laundry liquids in hot water in a front loader.

All and all works better than adding grated soap such as Fels as one does not have to worry about soap residue or pH level. Will now beable to finish off the remaining Cheer liquid and some expensive "French" washing powder, amoung other detergents in my stash that were too high sudsing. All boxes of Tide are still being given the push as one feels neither TWB or TCW rinse cleanly.

L.

 

[kenmore58]

If there was too much soap, I just always added a little fabric softener. It cuts the suds right immediately.

In fact, if you have a carpet cleaning machine and run out of carpent shampoo, just use a mixture of liquid laundry detergent, ammonia (very little), and some fabric softener. Does a great job.

Ron

 

[launderess]

Soap works along the same principles, and for that matter fabric softener as both contain fats/oils. By it's nature fabric softener is an aqueous suspension of tallow,fats and oils designed to coat fibers. Some modern TOL fabric softeners however use surfactants instead of oils however.

 

[mielabor]

I have the same experience...

I have this bottle ready for emergencies. Only a few drops with a pipette into the suds and everything is gone within seconds. One can even use soap for washing in a front loader.

 

[bobbyderegis]

Wow! This does not affect the cleaning ability of the soap/detergent? I love my Mexican suds, but it makes tons of suds and I end up with suds lock in the first spin. Any particular brand defoamer to recommend? Can it be used at the beginning of the wash cycle?
Bobby in Boston

 

[toggleswitch]

Isn't silicone simply a form of oil?

The directions in French above say:

"......a base de l'huile de silicone emulsionee."
"......in a base of emulsified oil of silicone."

Is it used to mean "extract-of" in this case?

 

[launderess]

Yeahbut

Yes, silicone is a type of "oil" but it's properties are such that it makes an excellent defoaming agent against surfactants. Read for hours scouring "Google" on the matter, but can't remember half of it (much like cramming for a college exam), something about molecular structure and so forth.

 

[launderess]

For what is worth, silicone based antifoaming agents are what most low sudsing detergents use; but there is also long chained soaps, and other oils. IIRC vintage Dash used fish oil.

L.

 

[sudsmaster]

fabric softener is an aqueous suspension of tallow,fats and

Actually, most if not all fabric softeners may start out with tallow (a waxy type of fat) or other fat or oil as a feedstock, but most commonly these are converted via chemical processes into quaternary compounds that are themselves cationic surfactants. If I recall correctly, natural soap is also a cationic surfactant.

"The liquids added to the washing water to produce fluffier textiles are fabric softeners and not water softeners. They are usually basic quaternary ammonium compounds such as distearyl dimethyl ammonium chloride with 16 and 18 carbon atoms, which are cationic, or positively charged. A thin coating is deposited on the negatively chared fabric, giving a lubricated cloth with a fluffy feel."

"Silicones are a group of resinlike materials in which silicon takes the place of carbon... Silicone oils, used for lubrication and as insulating and hydraulic fluids, are methyl silicone polymers".

"Antifoamers are chemicals, such as the silicones, added to solvents to reduce foam so that processing equipment can be used to capacity without spillover [I suppose one can consider a washing machine as processing equipment]. Antifoam71, of General Electric, is a silicone emulsion that can be used in foodstuffs in proportions up to 100 parts per million."

(Materials Handbook, 14th Edition)

 

[mielabor]

Cationic vs. anionic...

Traditional soap is, like most other detergents, an anionic surfactant. Anionic surfactants are incompatible with cathionic surfactants. That's why adding fabric conditioner to suds will reduce the foaming but it will also reduce the cleaning power of the suds as it inactivates the detergent (usually it forms a greasy precipitation with the detergent).

 

[sudsmaster]

Mielabor,

By gosh, you're right, natural soap is an anionic surfactant. Don't know how I got it into my head otherwise. Thanks for the correction, and my apologies to anyone I misinformed.