How much would you be willing to pay for a Keymatic 3224/3226 door seal?

[hoover3224]

I’m Hey all you avid Keymatic fans!

Just out of pure curiosity how much would you Keymatic 3224/3226 fans be prepared to pay for a
new door seal?

I know a lot of you are desperate just like I am for a new one and I have had a few quotes and as you can imagine it’s going to be pretty expensive, just the tooling alone is extremely costly.

If you guys could give me a rough idea how much you’d be willing to spend if I was to have them made
and put them on ebay? That way could see if it would be financially viable to even have them done.

Best wishes
Cam

 

[keymatic3203]

Hi Cam

thanks for looking into this, to start the ball rolling, at between 50 and 100 pounds each, I would happily buy three, much higher than that and I would really have to consider if I could justify the expense when both my machines need major work, which is not likely to happen for several years yet.

Sorry I know I must reply to your previous thread, it looks in beautiful condition appearance wise. I'm sorry it's missing a it's timeline indicator tape, hopefully you'll find one, or be able to make one some how.

Mathew

 

[hoover3224]

Hey Mathew

Thanks getting in touch, I think you was thinking along the same lines as me, the one company I’ve spoken to has said I need to have a minimum of 25 made, I just worry I wouldn’t sell them all. I’d keep a couple for mine and look to sell the rest.

Oh I love my machine, it’s just that so many problems are rearing their ugly heads as I delve deeper into the machine, makes the door seal seem immaterial at this stage.

I’ll keep you guys updated re the door seals, I know there’s so many out there that need them!

Thanks again
Cam

 

[alanlondon]

I’d have one

Hi Cam, I have a non working Keymatic, the boot on it is long perished as are the sump pipes. It’s a restoration project I have in mind to start soon. I’d be willing to buy at least one, if not two at the same prices Matthew mentions.

Great that you’re looking into this. If I remember a few years back someone posted on eBay a few door boots in various degrees of new and used and they all went.

Good luck in this pursuit, keep us posted.

Cheers Alan

 

[hoover3224]

Hey Alan, thanks for your message!

It’s nice to see there’s a lot of interest in this as I was worried nobody would be prepared to pay the high costs.

It’s worth noting I’m not interested in making a profit, I just like the idea of being able to help out.
All I want really is to recoup as much of the total cost as much as possible.

My 3224 keymatic is just the same as far as rubber parts go.. the sump hose has totally ripped off, plus numerous other issues.. we sure give ourselves some hard projects!

I will be sending the only old door seal I have off to a rubber seal company today to have a final price agreed.

Will keep you guys updated as talks progress further.

Best wishes
Cam

 

[alanlondon]

Best of luck

Very exciting to see what they say.

Cheers Alan

 

[hoover3224]

And my boot is sent off, hopefully they can assist in our quest to get our machines water tight!

Here’s a pic of the letter I’ve included.

Best wishes
Cam

 

[hoover3224]

And my boot is sent off, hopefully they can assist in our quest to get our machines water tight!

Here’s a pic of the letter I’ve included.

Best wishes
Cam

 

[lowefficiency]

What does the cross-section of the door seal look like?

Have you considered making a mold and casting a replacement yourself? (Silicone?)

 

[keymatic3203]

Hi Alan

I remember those boots on ebay, think they went for around 60-70 pounds, I remember deciding not to go for them, as I didn't have a machine ready for one and given the unknown condition, the thought of paying a high price and for it just dry out before I could use it seemed pointless.

But maybe that selling price is a guide to what they may fetch, but I can see a bigger market for the blue ones, as all the good boots I know of are black and to have to original colour would be an attraction too, giving a larger possible market. Look forward to seeing what response you get Cam.

Low efficiency, interested if anyone has had any success in making door seals or other rubber parts, I don't remember reading about any on Aw, though I do know those brilliant fridgidaire Pulsators one member has produced. I did have a go at making one for the English electric, (same as 57 westinghouse spacemates) above all it was a lesson in how precise these things are, My basic method was to make a mould in casting plaster and modeling clay, which may sound easy but you have to think how to get the original out of the mold and then reassemble, seal and pour the silicone. I spent days on the project ans pounds on 2 part silicone to produce nothing of any use. the big problem I think was that the silicone isn't as thin as latex, so didn't run into the mould as freely as I'd anticipated, so resulted in area of holes or to thin to be of use. I've not given up, but don't have the time to revisit the project now, but I was so glad to have gone through the process as I've learnt a lot and got it out of my system. So when you add up the cost of the time and materials I invested in the experiment, that has be offset against the price I would be prepared to pay to have one made.

Mathew

 

[lowefficiency]

Mathew, I suppose I was thinking of a different approach - Making a new mold from scratch from measurements, rather than as an impression or cast from an original. 3D printing the mold might be an option, for example. That way, you ensure a uniform result, without copying any damage or distortions present in what remains of the original parts.

I've never seen this part (or even a Hoover washer) in person, but it appears as though the part might be symmetrical? If so, then modeling a replacement is as simple as modeling the profile of a slice. And if you're lucky, "modeling" might even be a strong word, as an accurate dimensioned photo of a slice might be able to be imported in software and revolved to create the new 3D model.

Just a thought.

 

[keymatic3203]

yes that is a thought

and I suppose that would be the way this company would go about it. But it still taught me how you need to think about how the mould would work, is it a one off where the mould could be broken or made in sections to make multiple copies. I wanted to try the plaster mould method as I had seen this method used with puppet and mask making in my line of work. I'm a carpenter at a theatre and work with prop makers who sculpt masks/puppet heads in clay to make a plaster mould and a latex cast. So I wanted to try it for myself, though I knew latex wouldn't be up to the job.

All good head scrathing and problem solving.

Mathew

 

[vacbear58]

Unfortunately it is not that simple as the tub in these machines drops at the front as it fills with water so it has to accommodate this movement as well as the normal stresses and strains of the boot of FL washer

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Dave,

Unfortunately its not symetrical, it angles downwards between the two pieces.

Cam, I'd be prepared to pay up to $150-$200 AUD for one of these.

Cheers

Nathan

 

[hoover3224]

Hi all,

I’m so pleased to see the interest, it makes looking into it all worthwhile!

I had considered ways of making my own moulds but I’d rather it be done professionally personally then I know it would be suitable for the job, I think we’d be pretty peeved if it decided to rip or distort or not fit properly after spending so much money.. I for one would be effing and jeffing!

I am expecting it to be £2000 at the very least and indeed probably will be much more for the entire process. I’ve been told to expect charges for drawings, tooling, manufacturing and of course the boots themselves!

As mentioned previously, I’ve no wish to make any profit and just to recoup as much of the total cost as possible. The knowledge I’ve helped you guys is profit enough for me!

I’ll keep you all updated going forward

Best wishes
Cam

 

[lowefficiency]

>> Unfortunately its not symetrical, it angles downwards between the two pieces.

I understand that it droops when in use, but is the actual seal itself asymmetrical, and not just sufficiently compliant to accommodate that droop?
(And also not just *appearing* to be asymmetrical after having taken a set from being drooped for years in a machine?)

From the images in these two linked threads, everything looks rather uniform...
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?28775
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?15393

A somewhat reliable giveaway would be if the seal has an indication mark or stamping that must be aligned when installing. And an even more reliable indication would be text in the service manual indicating an orientation.

Note that even if you let the pros reproduce the seal, details like this are important - and could reduce your costs considerably for the design and tooling phases of their efforts.

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Dave,

How it is represented in the parts diagram is the reality. The front of the boot is higher than the back of the boot. Even my brand new boot is that way. The angles down from the factory in preparation for the tub to drop when its full of water.

Regards

Nathan

 

[hoover3224]

Hi

I’d say it’s best for the boot to be made exactly as the old one is, after all these years the suspension springs and tub support wire will be potentially weaker and more sloppy so will move about more, so if the boot is made exactly as the old one is so then that will allow for any extra movement and the tubs will surly tilt even further back than they originally did? I’d assume being rubber the old ones will have stretched a bit over time.

If it was all uniform and symmetrical it would probably be too hard on the springs and of course support wires which are always a weak spot. I certainly wouldn’t want to stress my machine with a boot that was the wrong fit.

And as Nathan says it’s generally manufactured that way by design, I’ve never ran my machine with water so I can’t be 100% sure but in the YouTube vids I’ve seen the tub has a tendency to go almost vertical when full of water and heavy wet washing.

If it was to be totally symmetrical I’d expect the boot to try and tear//split under pressure.

I could be talking nonsense but it makes sense to me

Best wishes
Cam

 

[lowefficiency]

>> If it was to be totally symmetrical I’d expect the boot to try and tear//split under pressure.

It's really just a standard bellows design, the kind used for all kinds of purposes requiring flexing, offsets, and length changes. The boots on the CV joints of car axles would be a good example, as are bendy straws. Being symmetrical wouldn't be any problem for them, as the compliance and stretch allowances are just a function of the diameter of the bulge and the extra material that comes with it. And you could easily design a seal with more travel allowance than the original if desired.

Not at all trying to argue with you guys - just trying to help make sure your reproductions are correct before spending so much money, and not cascading age-related flaws from used parts down to a second generation of copies. I've seen far too many reproduction parts over the years that were made from old or worn originals, inheriting all of those problems in the process, when they could have easily been corrected......

Hopefully you hear good news from the shop working on your new seals!