An interesting article. It makes me want to go out and buy refills for my old cartridge pen.
How The Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive
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lordkenmore
Well-known member
I enjoyed this piece!
I have a weakness for fountain pens, and I've got several on a pencil tray a foot away from the keyboard I'm using. They aren't anything special--they range from a cheap Sheaffer (probably a few dollars new, if even that), a German pen from a company I've otherwise never heard of, and a Cross. All use ink cartridges. Elsewhere I've got some slightly better pens...but all have issues IIRC. (They are more important to me for history than actual use now.)
But these days I seldom write by hand, and so they mostly collect dust.
I can't say for sure what advantages might exist with fountain pens, since it's been so long since I really wrote anything by hand. But one thing I definitely remember noting when I was in high school: it seemed like my absolutely horrible handwriting was a bit more legible when I wrote with a fountain pen. I can remember sometimes using a fountain pen for homework. But I never, ever took one to school--to much worry about something happening to it. (Not an unreasonable worry, given some of the realities at that school...)
My mother took classes at a local college, and I remember her telling me about someone in one of those classes that even had a Mont Blanc! Apparently, though, said pen was seldom used, for fear of something happening to it. Seems like a shame...
I later went to that same college, and German professor (I never had him, but I'd met him through my mother) had a fountain pen. He talked about how sad it was the decline of cursive (this was late 80s/early 90s era). Then, he told me about how when he was in Germany, his elementary school son was expected by the German schools to use IIRC fountain pens with real ink, and cursive. Meanwhile, kids his age were told in America to print using a pencil...
I later on took a speech class when I was about 30. Long story, but the relevant part was that I got a fountain pen (which could use bottled ink). It was a decent pen. I could have gotten by with a cheap ballpoint, but I liked using the pen, even if I had to constantly refill it. We had to fill out evaluation slips on classmates' speeches, and so perhaps my slips were a bit more legible, thanks to the pen. I now wonder if anyone noticed and wondered: what sort of weird pen is that freak in the corner is using?
I have a weakness for fountain pens, and I've got several on a pencil tray a foot away from the keyboard I'm using. They aren't anything special--they range from a cheap Sheaffer (probably a few dollars new, if even that), a German pen from a company I've otherwise never heard of, and a Cross. All use ink cartridges. Elsewhere I've got some slightly better pens...but all have issues IIRC. (They are more important to me for history than actual use now.)
But these days I seldom write by hand, and so they mostly collect dust.
I can't say for sure what advantages might exist with fountain pens, since it's been so long since I really wrote anything by hand. But one thing I definitely remember noting when I was in high school: it seemed like my absolutely horrible handwriting was a bit more legible when I wrote with a fountain pen. I can remember sometimes using a fountain pen for homework. But I never, ever took one to school--to much worry about something happening to it. (Not an unreasonable worry, given some of the realities at that school...)
My mother took classes at a local college, and I remember her telling me about someone in one of those classes that even had a Mont Blanc! Apparently, though, said pen was seldom used, for fear of something happening to it. Seems like a shame...
I later went to that same college, and German professor (I never had him, but I'd met him through my mother) had a fountain pen. He talked about how sad it was the decline of cursive (this was late 80s/early 90s era). Then, he told me about how when he was in Germany, his elementary school son was expected by the German schools to use IIRC fountain pens with real ink, and cursive. Meanwhile, kids his age were told in America to print using a pencil...
I later on took a speech class when I was about 30. Long story, but the relevant part was that I got a fountain pen (which could use bottled ink). It was a decent pen. I could have gotten by with a cheap ballpoint, but I liked using the pen, even if I had to constantly refill it. We had to fill out evaluation slips on classmates' speeches, and so perhaps my slips were a bit more legible, thanks to the pen. I now wonder if anyone noticed and wondered: what sort of weird pen is that freak in the corner is using?
@ liamy: Likewise, but over long periods the grip required for a ballpoint, rollerball or pencil leaves an impression in my fingertip and the side of my middle finger. I think the point the author makes about fatigue is a valid one in this regard.
When I worked at MGM in the late '70s, one of my jobs involved cataloguing newly shot film for the negative vaults. It was all done on paper by hand. My co-worker and I went through boxes and boxes of Pentel Rolling Writers, which would eventually disintegrate from the intensive use. I had to take protective measures for my fingers with all of that writing all day, every day.
@ LK: Ironically, the school I attended through 3rd grade taught Palmer Method, yet we all used ballpoints. The school I started attending in 4th grade taught Noble & Noble, but required everyone to use cartridge pens. This had nothing to do with cursive. It was all about not ruining the wooden tops on our desks.
When I worked at MGM in the late '70s, one of my jobs involved cataloguing newly shot film for the negative vaults. It was all done on paper by hand. My co-worker and I went through boxes and boxes of Pentel Rolling Writers, which would eventually disintegrate from the intensive use. I had to take protective measures for my fingers with all of that writing all day, every day.
@ LK: Ironically, the school I attended through 3rd grade taught Palmer Method, yet we all used ballpoints. The school I started attending in 4th grade taught Noble & Noble, but required everyone to use cartridge pens. This had nothing to do with cursive. It was all about not ruining the wooden tops on our desks.
ultralux88
Well-known member
I do tend to prefer pens that require less pressure to the paper, like the uniball ones. I honestly rarely ever use print, my print never progressed past 5th grade, as soon as they allowed us to write in cursive if we so chose, I made it my primary form of writing. I also don't hold my pen the way they taught us to, I came up with something else I found more comfortable.
I went to Catholic school from 2nd thru 6th grade and we were required to write with fluid ink, either a fountain pen or cartridge pen. I used to have very nice handwriting, but having to write so much and so rapidly when I worked for the Human Services Dept.my handwriting began to deteriorate. And then with the use of computer keyboards it has gone downhill even more. But if I take my time I can still write nicely. I do believe that using a fountain or cartridge pen is easier on the hand, because no pressure is required. For much of the time I worked at the Human Services Dept. I wrote with a fountain pen. I have a beautiful Parker 51 that I used then. The Parker 51 was for many years the most popular pen in the world. My Dad had a black Parker 51 that he used exclusively.
It’s a shame that cursive handwriting isn’t taught anymore like it was with my generation. But from what I’ve been reading that trend may be ending. I’ve read that the current belief is that cursive writing is beneficial in that it promotes better thought processes in the young, by using their brains to coordinate making the letters on paper that correspond with what they are trying to express. And its really sad that so many young people can’t read cursive writing. I’ve heard some kids call it “antique writing”.
I guess I’m just a hopeless dinasor, LOL.
Eddie
It’s a shame that cursive handwriting isn’t taught anymore like it was with my generation. But from what I’ve been reading that trend may be ending. I’ve read that the current belief is that cursive writing is beneficial in that it promotes better thought processes in the young, by using their brains to coordinate making the letters on paper that correspond with what they are trying to express. And its really sad that so many young people can’t read cursive writing. I’ve heard some kids call it “antique writing”.
I guess I’m just a hopeless dinasor, LOL.
Eddie
I have somewhere a Sheaffer fountain pen my dad gave to me at my 8th grade graduation. I used that pen for many years writing Christmas, birthday, thank you and other cards. I thought it was pretty cool. Back then people commented on my handwriting. Now it has deteriorated. Probably 20 years ago I put the pen away. I have always kept the original box. Both of my parents had beautiful handwriting. My dad was left handed but school made him write right handed growing up. My moms dad was English and taught my mom the script form of writing with all the curlicues. Her twin sister wanted no part of that and had very small but neat as a pin cursive. My grandchildren cannot read cursive. Sad, but schools stopped teaching when Kim was in 2nd grade. Brenden never had any lessons and thinks we should come in the 2018 and give it up. I still write everything in cursive. Kim was filling out a job app not long ago and it said do not print signature, must be cursive. She was beside herself and we had to teach her how to sign her name. I told her, her sig is her trade mark. I told her I can look at the writing and know how wrote it by the hand writing.
The article has it right. I collect fountain pens, have, er, a couple hundred of them. I wasn't taught cursive any more intensively than anyone else my age (57) but my handwriting is a lot better than most, because of the way a fountain pen forces you to write.
Cursive (which is still taught at least in some schools) is not that hard to read, if it's legible, of course. I remember being given a facsimile of the Declaration of Independence in first grade. It took awhile, and I had to as for help, but I was able to decipher most of it. It's a matter of whether you WANT to learn. Maybe most kids see no reason to do it, but stop pretending it's so hard. Puh-leeze!
Cursive (which is still taught at least in some schools) is not that hard to read, if it's legible, of course. I remember being given a facsimile of the Declaration of Independence in first grade. It took awhile, and I had to as for help, but I was able to decipher most of it. It's a matter of whether you WANT to learn. Maybe most kids see no reason to do it, but stop pretending it's so hard. Puh-leeze!
A friend of mine taught ceramics at an elite nearby boys' college prep school for 25 years. One of her students wanted to engrave something in cursive on a piece he was creating and asked for her help, so she wrote it out for him. He told her three humps in the "m" didn't look right and she advised that yes, it has three humps.
Upon examining the piece after firing, she saw that he had written an "n" instead of an "m" and asked the kid why. He said three humps just didn't look right. Neither does the word he misspelled, which I've forgotten, but as I recall it lended the inscription a certain irony.
Sigh.
Upon examining the piece after firing, she saw that he had written an "n" instead of an "m" and asked the kid why. He said three humps just didn't look right. Neither does the word he misspelled, which I've forgotten, but as I recall it lended the inscription a certain irony.
Sigh.
Not that I actually write much anymore with a pen or pencil but I do like the gel type pens because they glide across the paper easily.
In grade school we began our writing classes having to use a quill and ink bottle.. well not a real bird quill but a plastic quill and removable nibs, and blotting paper. I think it was the 2nd year, perhaps gr. 3 or 4 when we were allowed to use a fountain pen or a cartridge pen. I'm foggy on the details now when we were allowed to use a ballpoint.
Article reminded me that in the UK they call ballpoints Biro's and not ballpoints. Or at least they used to.
In grade school we began our writing classes having to use a quill and ink bottle.. well not a real bird quill but a plastic quill and removable nibs, and blotting paper. I think it was the 2nd year, perhaps gr. 3 or 4 when we were allowed to use a fountain pen or a cartridge pen. I'm foggy on the details now when we were allowed to use a ballpoint.
Article reminded me that in the UK they call ballpoints Biro's and not ballpoints. Or at least they used to.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
But from what I’ve been reading that trend may be ending. I’ve read that the current belief is that cursive writing is beneficial in that it promotes better thought processes in the young
I haven't fully read any articles, but I know I've seen articles that apparently talk about advantages. I think I saw one this week.
But I wonder if schools will spend much (if any) time on cursive, no matter what studies/evidence exists... There are so many demands in this era of things to be covered. It can also be argued that recess has value, and that has also gone bye-bye at many schools (at least the last I heard).
I haven't fully read any articles, but I know I've seen articles that apparently talk about advantages. I think I saw one this week.
But I wonder if schools will spend much (if any) time on cursive, no matter what studies/evidence exists... There are so many demands in this era of things to be covered. It can also be argued that recess has value, and that has also gone bye-bye at many schools (at least the last I heard).
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Parker 51
I at least recognize the name. Probably the result of too many hours reading old magazine ads... LOL
I remember seeing ads for Parker (and also Waterman and IIRC Mont Blanc) ca. 1990. One ad for Parker talked about the pens being a dual system--you could have either a cartridge, or use an ink reservoir. I remember seeing a Parker that had this system on display at the mall, and talking to the sales person. She obviously knew nothing of her products, and insisted you bought ink cartridges for that pen.
I at least recognize the name. Probably the result of too many hours reading old magazine ads... LOL
I remember seeing ads for Parker (and also Waterman and IIRC Mont Blanc) ca. 1990. One ad for Parker talked about the pens being a dual system--you could have either a cartridge, or use an ink reservoir. I remember seeing a Parker that had this system on display at the mall, and talking to the sales person. She obviously knew nothing of her products, and insisted you bought ink cartridges for that pen.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Yet another boring memory from Lord Kenmore's dull life.
I think we were first required to have a pen in 5th or 6th grade. As the teacher said, we were learning penmanship. (Not sure if 5th was the official grade--I was in a split class, and that was one subject the teacher could teach both grades at once IIRC.)
At some point before that, pens could not be used on school work (although possession of a pen was OK). I'm not sure if there was a point where pens were tolerated, but not required (say, 4th grade? regular 5th grade classes?)
Then, come junior high, I had a teacher who banned the use of pens. He hated the look of errors crossed out IIRC.
I think we were first required to have a pen in 5th or 6th grade. As the teacher said, we were learning penmanship. (Not sure if 5th was the official grade--I was in a split class, and that was one subject the teacher could teach both grades at once IIRC.)
At some point before that, pens could not be used on school work (although possession of a pen was OK). I'm not sure if there was a point where pens were tolerated, but not required (say, 4th grade? regular 5th grade classes?)
Then, come junior high, I had a teacher who banned the use of pens. He hated the look of errors crossed out IIRC.
The Parker 51 did not use a cartridge, the user filled the pen from a bottle of ink. In the 60’s, Parker introduced a Parker 61 that was convertible, and could use either a Parker cartridge or liquid fountain pen ink. These pens were inferior to the original Parker 51’s, which were excellent writing insturments. There are many informative articles online about the 51. I’ve added links to a couple here.
Eddie
https://www.vintagepens.com/Parker_51.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_51
https://www.penaddict.com/blog/2016/7/7/the-parker-51[this post was last edited: 11/17/2018-03:05]
Eddie
https://www.vintagepens.com/Parker_51.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_51
https://www.penaddict.com/blog/2016/7/7/the-parker-51[this post was last edited: 11/17/2018-03:05]
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Just to clarify, if needed: the Parker pens I mentioned above were undoubtedly some other model. They definitely could use either bottled ink or cartridges. They came along long after the 51 was apparently retired (1972, according to the Wikipedia piece).
I do have an old Parker pen that will only apparently work with bottled ink. It's one of those types that had a cap on a block intended to sit on a desk. I think it came from a yard sale when I was young. As I recall, it worked pretty well, although IIRC it needed refilling a lot. Then, I suppose it might have been intended for the businessman who didn't need a pen for anything more than signing important letters...
I'm now idly wondering when cartridges became an option... I'd have to guess that bottled ink was the only option during the fountain pen heyday, and I'd speculate that cartridges might have come along to try to make the pens more appealing in an era of more convenient ballpoint pens.
I personally preferred ink when I had the choice--one huge argument is that I think bottled ink was probably cheaper, and certainly less wasteful than plastic cartridges. I never minded filling a pen. The only issue was just making sure the pen got refilled often enough if one took the pen out of the house. But, of course, that was also an issue with cartridge fountain pens. One could, I suppose, carry an extra cartridge, but then with bottled ink, one can refill quickly just ensure one has enough ink.
I know I got one pen that could be used with either ink or cartridges new. It included a sampler cartridge or two, and I don't think I ever touched that cartridge, until I needed one for a pen that couldn't take bottled ink.
These days, though, I'm a cartridge user, because that's what the current collection of pens are intended for. That said, I write so little these days that a cartridge lasts...
I remember my father (who once liked fountain pens) talking about refilling cartridges with regular ink. It should be easily possible, but I never tried it.
I do have an old Parker pen that will only apparently work with bottled ink. It's one of those types that had a cap on a block intended to sit on a desk. I think it came from a yard sale when I was young. As I recall, it worked pretty well, although IIRC it needed refilling a lot. Then, I suppose it might have been intended for the businessman who didn't need a pen for anything more than signing important letters...
I'm now idly wondering when cartridges became an option... I'd have to guess that bottled ink was the only option during the fountain pen heyday, and I'd speculate that cartridges might have come along to try to make the pens more appealing in an era of more convenient ballpoint pens.
I personally preferred ink when I had the choice--one huge argument is that I think bottled ink was probably cheaper, and certainly less wasteful than plastic cartridges. I never minded filling a pen. The only issue was just making sure the pen got refilled often enough if one took the pen out of the house. But, of course, that was also an issue with cartridge fountain pens. One could, I suppose, carry an extra cartridge, but then with bottled ink, one can refill quickly just ensure one has enough ink.
I know I got one pen that could be used with either ink or cartridges new. It included a sampler cartridge or two, and I don't think I ever touched that cartridge, until I needed one for a pen that couldn't take bottled ink.
These days, though, I'm a cartridge user, because that's what the current collection of pens are intended for. That said, I write so little these days that a cartridge lasts...
I remember my father (who once liked fountain pens) talking about refilling cartridges with regular ink. It should be easily possible, but I never tried it.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
One dumb question...
We're still waiting for Lord Kenmore to ask anything but a dumb question, comes mutters from the back of the audience.
But do fountain pens develop a wear pattern to match specific users? And, if so, does that mean that a well-worn pen will only work well for one person?
I wonder because something I read many years ago (a short story maybe?) suggested that possibility.
Although...I have to say that I've had used pens, and they all seemed to work acceptably for me.
We're still waiting for Lord Kenmore to ask anything but a dumb question, comes mutters from the back of the audience.
But do fountain pens develop a wear pattern to match specific users? And, if so, does that mean that a well-worn pen will only work well for one person?
I wonder because something I read many years ago (a short story maybe?) suggested that possibility.
Although...I have to say that I've had used pens, and they all seemed to work acceptably for me.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Penelope Keith in posh mode...
A Parker Pens advert for the biro version, circa 1975.
A Parker Pens advert for the biro version, circa 1975.
John,
The reason I mentioned the Parker 61 in my last post on this thread is because thats what I thought the unknowledgeable sales person must have been showing you,
I first remember seeing Sheaffer Cartridge pens in about 1958, but research shows that Sheaffer first came out with the cartridge in 1955, see link below.
http://www.sheaffertarga.com/Sheaffer 1958 to 2003/Sheaffer Pen 1958 to 2003.html
I used to refill my cartridges all the time, first by just putting the punctured end in the ink and squeezing the air out and letting the vacuum draw the ink in, not very efficient. Then later on with either an eyedropper or a syringe. I when attended school I would carry an extra cartridge in my pocket and also keep extras in my desk. When I used a fountain pen, I would just refill it every day, and that way I almost never ran out of ink away from home. Back in the heyday of fountain pens, before the ballpoint, running out of ink wasn’t too much of a problem, because everyone used them, and would have a bottle of ink on hand that they would kindly let you refill your pen from.
The pen that you describe having is a desk pen. Almost every business back in the day had them, banks, dept. stores, postoffices, and they were out on the counters for customers to use when needed for business.
http://www.myantiquepens.com/2014/04/introduction-sheaffer-student-cartridge.html
A person’s fountain pen was a valued possession. When my Father graduated from Law School and passed the Bar Exam, my Mom bought him the Black Parker 51 that he used everyday until he died 10 years later. And then my Mom used it too for the rest of her life. Everyone of my report cards was signed with that parker 51.
Now we have about a hundred cheap ballpoint and other pens all over the house. But, whenever I go shopping I still use the same Papermate Slim Ballpoint pen that I found in a parking lot about 15 years ago. David brings all these other pens home from work where he finds them, and they are in every junk and desk drawer. Back in the old days it would have been unheard of for most people to have owned more that one, maybe two pens at a time. And this is when everyone wrote all the time. Now most pen use is limited, due to the computer. Go figure, huh.
Eddie[this post was last edited: 11/17/2018-10:55]
The reason I mentioned the Parker 61 in my last post on this thread is because thats what I thought the unknowledgeable sales person must have been showing you,
I first remember seeing Sheaffer Cartridge pens in about 1958, but research shows that Sheaffer first came out with the cartridge in 1955, see link below.
http://www.sheaffertarga.com/Sheaffer 1958 to 2003/Sheaffer Pen 1958 to 2003.html
I used to refill my cartridges all the time, first by just putting the punctured end in the ink and squeezing the air out and letting the vacuum draw the ink in, not very efficient. Then later on with either an eyedropper or a syringe. I when attended school I would carry an extra cartridge in my pocket and also keep extras in my desk. When I used a fountain pen, I would just refill it every day, and that way I almost never ran out of ink away from home. Back in the heyday of fountain pens, before the ballpoint, running out of ink wasn’t too much of a problem, because everyone used them, and would have a bottle of ink on hand that they would kindly let you refill your pen from.
The pen that you describe having is a desk pen. Almost every business back in the day had them, banks, dept. stores, postoffices, and they were out on the counters for customers to use when needed for business.
http://www.myantiquepens.com/2014/04/introduction-sheaffer-student-cartridge.html
A person’s fountain pen was a valued possession. When my Father graduated from Law School and passed the Bar Exam, my Mom bought him the Black Parker 51 that he used everyday until he died 10 years later. And then my Mom used it too for the rest of her life. Everyone of my report cards was signed with that parker 51.
Now we have about a hundred cheap ballpoint and other pens all over the house. But, whenever I go shopping I still use the same Papermate Slim Ballpoint pen that I found in a parking lot about 15 years ago. David brings all these other pens home from work where he finds them, and they are in every junk and desk drawer. Back in the old days it would have been unheard of for most people to have owned more that one, maybe two pens at a time. And this is when everyone wrote all the time. Now most pen use is limited, due to the computer. Go figure, huh.
Eddie[this post was last edited: 11/17/2018-10:55]
My handwriting has never been something to brag about; it's probably better now than at any time before. One thing that brings me compliments repeatedly is my signature. I do strive to write each letter and I want it to be legible to a total stranger. Most signatures disintegrate over time - people don't "have time" to write it out. And the more frequently they are called on to sign documents the shorter their signature seems to be.
What really polished off my handwriting was deciding to go into architecture. I started down that path in the fall of 1971, long before computers came along, and learning to letter was taught immediately after entering school. As a result, I have printed/lettered most of my life. My lettering has evolved into a hybrid of lettering and writing - some characters get joined, others remain distinctly separate. It has been several decades since I used a fountain pen, not sure if switching back to one would help my penmanship or not.
lawrence
What really polished off my handwriting was deciding to go into architecture. I started down that path in the fall of 1971, long before computers came along, and learning to letter was taught immediately after entering school. As a result, I have printed/lettered most of my life. My lettering has evolved into a hybrid of lettering and writing - some characters get joined, others remain distinctly separate. It has been several decades since I used a fountain pen, not sure if switching back to one would help my penmanship or not.
lawrence
