I just got back from the Pyrennees and a fantastic vacation. My Brother-in-law is on sabbatical in Banyuls and has this fantastic villa with the most peculiar top-loading HA washer; maybe one of you European types can explain its function.
How the hell does this work?
- Thread starter bajaespuma
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It has a "dry" feature that adds 1 hour of irritating time to the wash cycle where the washer seems to be operating with some heat and tumbling and there's a constant trickle of water down the drainpipe. It took me a while to realize that I had translated "Temps de sechage" incorrectly as drying "temperature" when it really meant "drying time". You set the large knob on the left to your desired fabrics/cycle. You then select your desired spin speed and, with the large knob on the right, desired wash temperature. What I then learned is you select desired drying "time" with the "sechage" button and when the wash cycle ends, it goes into a heated tumble cycle that must be like what happens on a condenser dryer, only without any/much air flow.
I realized this when I saw that the cycle knob only progressed to the point between "10" and "11", but then the "sechage" knob slowly progressed from "60" to "STOP" as the cycle proceeded.
In most other ways, it was like the top-loading Mieles I had seen in France decades ago. My Brother-in-Law, the PhD. wouldn't accept the fact that the dispensers were for: Pre-wash detergent, Main Wash detergent, Bleach and "Adouccisant", but would instead throw one of these into the tub at the beginning of the cycle:
OK, forgive me, I'm kvelling a little bit
By the way, here's what the backyard looked like:
By the way, here's what the backyard looked like:
The tiny laundry room was off to the right with its own chinmey for an old laundry stove over a hot counter. Here's the kitchen:
I LOVED this stove. Electric grill on the left, two FAST electric burners in the middle and two powerful gas hobs on the right. A large gas oven on the right and a small electric broiler/oven on the left. Couldn't read the brand as the lable had worn off, but I cooked on this two nights and fell in love with it, even though I managed to burn the rice pilaf because I set one of the electric elements on high instead of simmer. Tant pis.
This kitchen had one of the largest refrigerator freezers I've seen in a French kitchen, an Arthur Martin(made by Electrolux), and although it worked very well, it was a dorm-style fridge manufactured with a large "Vac-U-form".
This kitchen had one of the largest refrigerator freezers I've seen in a French kitchen, an Arthur Martin(made by Electrolux), and although it worked very well, it was a dorm-style fridge manufactured with a large "Vac-U-form".
We had a dandy Bosch dishwasher that was a little annoying to operate:
We were there for the annual Banyuls wine festival and what do I spy with my little eye at the back of the winery during the tasting:
God bless the French. They even spend thousands of Euros on a 1/2 size professional ware-washer to make sure there globes are spotless for the tasters:
On Saturday, October 10th, 2009, the entire village of Banyuls Sur Mer, was drunk (even the children) from 10 in the morning until early the next day. The whole town ended up on the beach in the afternoon for huge bonfires and lunches of roasted Catalan sausages, Moules, frites and, of course, more wine. They finished off the day with boat races and a nice fireworks show over the harbor. Local sailors aren't hard to look at.
Hm, that detergent dispenser looks awfully familiar to me!
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temps de sechage and trickling sound
To shed some light on this:
This must be a combined washer/dryer machine (I saw a French "Brandt" and a "Thompson" working like this)
In their early days (around 60s/70s) those machines had an added drying cycle:
Once the wash timer was done (prewash/wash/rinse/spin) it would hand things over to the dryer timer (heat, blow dry and condense by minutes). After the drying timer was done it would in turn pass back to the main timer which then clicked the machine into OFF position. You could choose whether you wanted a wash-only cycle or a wash-and-dry-afterwards cycle.
Depending on make and model this was done by adding a small and steady stream of cold water trickling down the side wall of of the outer tub to condense the steam accumulated in the basket. The heating element was ON all the time: Radiant heat was hoped to heat the inner wash basket to temperatures high enough to dry the load being tumbled (and by being flopped down on the hot basket wall, water residues in the fabric was hoped to evaporate). Some machines had added blowers in them to lead the moist air towards the water-cooled outer tub.
Many models were accused of being too hot for fabrics, making them shrink or damaging them. (consumer reports here said "they basically tumble-iron the clothes with unknown heat values").
Only then, many manufacturers turned to adding fully featured blowers and external air heating elements (and also external steam condensers) like they are used in today's standalone dryers.
Even though these machines (newer type 2) are being sold up to this day, they cannot do away with one single flaw: To wash you need a relatively small basket to insure proper friction and dipping/lifting action but to tumble dry you need roomy large drums and high volume air streams to keep the clothes "floating" and sufficiently aired.
But if you have an expensive appartment, these combos might be your choice (instead of a laudry couple "washer/dryer") - remember: Living space can be filthy expensive in Europe (4-digit monthly rent in some countries/cities).
Hope this helps.
To shed some light on this:
This must be a combined washer/dryer machine (I saw a French "Brandt" and a "Thompson" working like this)
In their early days (around 60s/70s) those machines had an added drying cycle:
Once the wash timer was done (prewash/wash/rinse/spin) it would hand things over to the dryer timer (heat, blow dry and condense by minutes). After the drying timer was done it would in turn pass back to the main timer which then clicked the machine into OFF position. You could choose whether you wanted a wash-only cycle or a wash-and-dry-afterwards cycle.
Depending on make and model this was done by adding a small and steady stream of cold water trickling down the side wall of of the outer tub to condense the steam accumulated in the basket. The heating element was ON all the time: Radiant heat was hoped to heat the inner wash basket to temperatures high enough to dry the load being tumbled (and by being flopped down on the hot basket wall, water residues in the fabric was hoped to evaporate). Some machines had added blowers in them to lead the moist air towards the water-cooled outer tub.
Many models were accused of being too hot for fabrics, making them shrink or damaging them. (consumer reports here said "they basically tumble-iron the clothes with unknown heat values").
Only then, many manufacturers turned to adding fully featured blowers and external air heating elements (and also external steam condensers) like they are used in today's standalone dryers.
Even though these machines (newer type 2) are being sold up to this day, they cannot do away with one single flaw: To wash you need a relatively small basket to insure proper friction and dipping/lifting action but to tumble dry you need roomy large drums and high volume air streams to keep the clothes "floating" and sufficiently aired.
But if you have an expensive appartment, these combos might be your choice (instead of a laudry couple "washer/dryer") - remember: Living space can be filthy expensive in Europe (4-digit monthly rent in some countries/cities).
Hope this helps.
PS: forgot something
Regarding the basket space: Many manufacturers recommended in their user's manuals "....to take out half the load from the drum after spin, then to dry the first half and once this was done: to put in the second half load and to dry it as well (choosing a dry only cycle)"
meaning: They were pretty aware of this problem.
Regarding the basket space: Many manufacturers recommended in their user's manuals "....to take out half the load from the drum after spin, then to dry the first half and once this was done: to put in the second half load and to dry it as well (choosing a dry only cycle)"
meaning: They were pretty aware of this problem.
... just about AEG toploaders
Guess AEG never had an in-house plant to produce toploaders so they rebadged Brandt TL (e.g. Lavamat 84/86/87) and Zanussi TL (e.g. Lavamat 585)
Alex/Logixx Brandt TL combo is badged Privileg. Here the very same machine was sold badged as AEG Lavamat 2087 and even Sangiorgio .
My guess is that average quality in latest *EURO*[flamestop] toploaders is even worse than frontloaders.
Can't understand why many recent toploaders (Brandt, Bosch/Siemens, Candy/Hoover) have just ONE baffle in the drum
Guess AEG never had an in-house plant to produce toploaders so they rebadged Brandt TL (e.g. Lavamat 84/86/87) and Zanussi TL (e.g. Lavamat 585)
Alex/Logixx Brandt TL combo is badged Privileg. Here the very same machine was sold badged as AEG Lavamat 2087 and even Sangiorgio .
My guess is that average quality in latest *EURO*[flamestop] toploaders is even worse than frontloaders.
Can't understand why many recent toploaders (Brandt, Bosch/Siemens, Candy/Hoover) have just ONE baffle in the drum
Exactly!
Whirlpolf, thank you for that detailed explanation; it sounds spot on to what I heard. Sad thing is, after all that, the clothes still came out of the drum wet. This machine was a "Brandt". Thought it was, like Miele, a German brand.
Whirlpolf, thank you for that detailed explanation; it sounds spot on to what I heard. Sad thing is, after all that, the clothes still came out of the drum wet. This machine was a "Brandt". Thought it was, like Miele, a German brand.
As stated above, the drying feature on this machine is horrible.
- The clothes become super hot. Even after the 20-minute cool-down cycle, the drum is still too hot to touch.
- Unless you only load a tiny amount of clothes in there, items will either be wrinkled beyond belief or damp in the center - usually both.
- The drying cycle takes ages and, on top of that, consumes lots of water. A two hour cycles uses 60 liters / 16 gallons just for "drying".
- Clothes dried in there have a weired smell to them.
Alex
- The clothes become super hot. Even after the 20-minute cool-down cycle, the drum is still too hot to touch.
- Unless you only load a tiny amount of clothes in there, items will either be wrinkled beyond belief or damp in the center - usually both.
- The drying cycle takes ages and, on top of that, consumes lots of water. A two hour cycles uses 60 liters / 16 gallons just for "drying".
- Clothes dried in there have a weired smell to them.
Alex
launderess
Well-known member
All Combination W/D Units Suffer The Same Basic Problems
There is no getting around that tumble drying laundry requires a large tub diameter than washing for the same weight of textiles. So yes, while one can launder 5kg in a tub, drying will only hold about 2.5, and even then the results are normally poor.
Much better to have final high speed spin or a separate extractor/spin dryer, then hang laundry up to dry than waste energy attempting to dry laundry in these combo units. Even if one had to use a small space heater and fan in a room to create a warm breeze to dry laundry, would be faster and probably cheaper energy wise than to run long and multiple loads in a small combo unit.
There is no getting around that tumble drying laundry requires a large tub diameter than washing for the same weight of textiles. So yes, while one can launder 5kg in a tub, drying will only hold about 2.5, and even then the results are normally poor.
Much better to have final high speed spin or a separate extractor/spin dryer, then hang laundry up to dry than waste energy attempting to dry laundry in these combo units. Even if one had to use a small space heater and fan in a room to create a warm breeze to dry laundry, would be faster and probably cheaper energy wise than to run long and multiple loads in a small combo unit.
dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
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Actually, using a washer dryer uses LESS energy than separate washing and drying:
according to the Euro energy label
-a A class washer uses 0,19 kW/kg of laundry
-a B class condenser dryer uses 0,64 kW/kg of laundry (witha rough subdivision of 60% B class, 30% C class, 10% A class heat pump driven, all vented dryers are C class or less)
- Total 0.83 kW/kg of dry clean laundry
- a A class washer dryer (most of the current European range is A class) uses 0,68 kW/kg for washing and drying, if the W/D were B class that would be 0,81 kW/kg, less than the 0,83 needed for separate machines.
The results are another thing even if I must say I never had problems, just be careful to put the right quantity of clothes in the drum while drying.
according to the Euro energy label
-a A class washer uses 0,19 kW/kg of laundry
-a B class condenser dryer uses 0,64 kW/kg of laundry (witha rough subdivision of 60% B class, 30% C class, 10% A class heat pump driven, all vented dryers are C class or less)
- Total 0.83 kW/kg of dry clean laundry
- a A class washer dryer (most of the current European range is A class) uses 0,68 kW/kg for washing and drying, if the W/D were B class that would be 0,81 kW/kg, less than the 0,83 needed for separate machines.
The results are another thing even if I must say I never had problems, just be careful to put the right quantity of clothes in the drum while drying.
