how to repair 70's Moffat stove clock?

[dlb]

Hi, I think this is the wrong place to post this but I read that this is the best forum to ask about old stoves so I'll try anyway. Just let me know if there's somewhere else I should post about this in the future.

I just acquired an old Moffat stove that looks like it's from the 70's. Like most other old stoves I've come across, everything works well except the clock. I'm handy and like fixing old junk but have no experience with old clocks. Can anyone here give me any tips on what to look for with this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[rp2813]

Can you provide a picture of the clock?  Does it have any manufacturer information on it (like "Telechron," etc.)?

 

[dlb]

I don't see any name on the clock/timer. It looks surprisingly generic. I'm attaching pics now.

I have another old stove, a Kenmore of a similar vintage, which I'm harvesting some parts from. It has a similar clock/timer that I might be able to use parts from but its clock doesn't work either unfortunately. I figured at the very least, I could disassemble the Kenmore clock to get an idea of how they are put together without risking damage to the Moffat's clock.

 

[rp2813]

Thanks for the pix.  Yes, it's hard to say who the clock maker may have been.  Others here who are more familiar with Moffats may be able to offer more information.  I'm not entirely sure, but Moffat may have ties to a U.S. manufacturer, which could possibly help to determine the source of the clock.

 

Your clock may just need a good cleaning that you could do yourself.  Grease, etc. from cooking vapors has a way of getting into places you wouldn't expect.  Definitely save the Kenmore clock.  It may have the same type of motor.  Even if a motor is stuck, it may not be a lost cause.  If the clock turns out to be made by Telechron/GE, then there's a way to revive a stuck rotor (motor) to get things moving again.

 

[dlb]

I dug into it a little bit this morning and have a few more details I can add now.

1) There are what appear to be some part #s on the schematic which make it look like the motor and clock are made by GE. See photo.

2) The overall clock assembly has a sticker saying it was made by Robertshaw of Canada.

3) The motor has '3250 series' stamped on it (my Kenmore parts stove has the same one in it).

4) I checked for voltage and the motor is getting 120V.

5) When I put the multimeter probe on the electric motor, I can feel it vibrating slightly, and also humming very quietly.

6) Several times when I put the multimeter probes on the clock assembly, the wheel on the electric motor turned very slowly, and just slightly. I got excited and thought I may have somehow kickstarted it but nope.

7) All the gears seem to move well, even the one in the back that appears to be driven by the motor. When I push the gear around, the wheel on the motor spins.

8) When I removed the motor and clock cover, I found a dark dust below where the motor would sit, and a red dust below the clock. The red dust doesn't look like rust and I don't see any rust on the clock gears but I don't know what else it would be.

And that's where things currently stand.

 

[114jwh]

Moffat stove made by Camco

Your stove was made by Camco (or possibly the precursor, GSW)! They made zillions of this design of stove in various configurations/incarnations and under a variety of brand names for the Canadian market. This design also lasted for probably 25-30 years so finding a donor stove shouldn't be too difficult. Camco was the result of a merger between Canadian General Electric and GSW (who owned the Moffat name at the time) so GE, Hotpoint, McClary, Kenmore and some others from within this lengthy timeframe should also have compatible parts.

A Moffat stove was a Moffat even throughout the various and complicated ownership changes over the years so not sure there would be an equivalent US model. The article below talks a bit about Moffat's history. Moffats were always well made and reliable stoves.

As to fixing the clock, no ideas on that type. Earlier ones than yours used GE clocks. I have an older Moffat that had a GE clock in it. It wasn't working either so I used the toaster oven trick on the rotor and got it going perfectly. You can read about it by searching the archives and many other places on the net. This Robertshaw looks different however the concept might give you some ideas.

Good luck and let us know how it goes![this post was last edited: 9/20/2019-01:33]

We used to make things in this country. #231 & 232: Moffats Limited (Weston, Ontario) and W.C. Wood (Guelph, Ontario)

progress-is-fine.blogspot.com

 

[dlb]

Hi 114jwh. Thanks for the info! I'm really enjoying this forum so far, there seems to be a good community of knowledgeable and helpful people here.

I've done some searching for this toaster oven trick you mentioned but I can't find anything about it. Can you point me to a thread that covers it? Many thanks.

 

[114jwh]

Here is a video I found below when searching. I think I remember reading at the time there was also a method utilizing a light bulb to heat the rotor as well.

I can't remember for sure but I believe I used the blue can of 3 in 1 oil - I didn't have the spray this guy uses.

However, your motor is different so not sure you'd want to attempt this. Just thought it might give you some ideas.

I was looking at your pictures again - interesting that the wiring diagram references a GE timer yet the actual part is a Robertshaw. Looking at the faceplate on the clock I'm wondering if it wasn't replaced at some point already. I'm not sure that faceplate would have been white originally given the age of the stove. I've mostly seen them in either a brushed aluminum type of color or matched the backsplash. Kinda think maybe they already swapped it out once from a newer white stove which would explain why it isn't a GE part? Maybe not but just a hunch.

Edit: Sorry, looked again. Your diagram shows four timers, presumably for models with different features. Yours appears to be the one on the far left in the pic - the Lux 670. It matches the first three digits of the model number in one of your other pics. I think Robertshaw and Lux were the same company at some point. [this post was last edited: 9/20/2019-02:32]

 

[rp2813]

Yes, unfortunately, that's not a Telechron motor/rotor.  If you can find a donor Telechron unit, then the fix will be easy.

 

The video above does demonstrate how to revive a Telechron rotor, but it's way more time consuming than the light bulb method, which involves balancing the small end of the rotor on top of a light bulb (60 watts should be fine) and letting it heat up on the bulb.  This takes maybe 15 minutes as opposed to 45 in a toaster oven.  I also recommend the plain old can of 3-in-1 oil -- the one with the blue label -- instead of a spray.  After shutting off the bulb, add one drop of oil at a time to the rotor gear.   It should be absorbed fairly quickly.  I wouldn't add more than ten drops maximum.  If it stops absorbing turn the bulb on again for a few minutes and repeat.  Don't add too much, or that will slow the rotor down and the clock won't keep correct time.

 

I wouldn't recommend using pliers on the rotor gear.  That is just asking for trouble.

 

I can't suggest anything for the motor you have now, but as stated above, the Telechron revival process may provide you with some ideas.

 

 

 

[dlb]

Thanks fellas. Yes, the motors I have (the spare in the Kenmore appears to be the same model) spin just fine, and are not sealed units so warming the grease and oiling them doesn't seem like it would do any good.

I'm not sure how to measure the resistance in the coil but I put the leads from the multimeter on the hot and ground wires that go to the motor since that seemed like the only way to do so. The lowest ohm setting on my meter is 200 but I didn't get anything with that. When I set the meter to 2000, I got 1150 ohms. That video about resurrecting the Telechron motor said 11 or 12 ohms should be about right so that makes me think the coil is hooped. Any thoughts on that?

Anyway, at this point I'm just checking the local online used stuff sites for cheap, uninteresting old stoves that have similar looking analog clocks that work. If I can find some, I might buy them just for the clocks and scrap the rest. We'll see.

 

[cfz2882]

I think the field coil is ok since you felt vibration from the motor-most timer motors I have measured resistance of were ~300-600 ohm.Might be able to oil the motor bushings and get it turning again if lucky,but that red dust suggests badly worn steel gears and bushings.The aluminum drum of the motor should turn very easy.

 

[dlb]

Update: I talked with a friend who is experienced working with old radios and asked for his take on this. He said that old clocks on stoves have less to do with stoves and more to do with clocks, so he suggested I find a vintage clock/watch repair place and see if they can help. There are a few such places around here so I spoke to one and gave him my stove clock to work on. He said he wasn't sure he could fix it but would give it a shot. That was about a week ago now so I look forward to hearing back from him soon.

In the meantime, I found something else that I like way more: a "digital" analog stove clock! This one appears to have come stock on another Moffat stove of the same vintage that was given to me, and looks like it's made by GE. It fits in my stove perfectly but I'm not positive I have it hooked up correctly (when I removed the last clock, I labeled what each wire was connected to) and neither the clock or the oven are working now. So if someone has a stove with a GE 3AST51 clock/timer, if you can tell me what wires go where that would be dandy.

Anyway, if the other clock gets fixed I'll put it back in the stove and then go about figuring out how to make the digital-analog one to work.

On top of that, I was also given a matching harvest gold Moffat fridge! It was in absolutely toxic condition and after 12+ hours of disassembling and bleaching, I still have a few more hours of cleaning to do but it will be worth it. So much yellow, chrome, and faux wood. I'll post pics once it's done and in the kitchen.

 

[turquoisedude]

David, I'm not sure if they do range clock/timer repairs, but I found a place in Scarborough, Ontario this summer that was willing and able to fix a couple of 50s dryer timers.  The company name is Tuners Timer Repair - it's worth asking! 

Turners Timer Repair - Appliance Timer Repair Experts

Appliance Timer Repair Experts include some with over 29 years of experience. Our success is contributed to our Manufacturing Services, Reverse Logistics

www.turnerstimerrepair.com

 

[combo52]

Common Range Clocks

Hi David, as you have found out the original clock is a Robertshaw these were nice as they had a bell rather than the rude noisey buzzer GE and other clocks use for their minute timer function.

 

Problem is RS clock were not as durable and we have found that it is harder to get them fixed, they often have a little pile of power under them from a ground up dry bearing.

 

The GE analog clocks are usually the most durable and easier to fix, the GE Roll-Over mechanical digital clocks seem to fail after 20 years or so, but we have found companies that have been able to fix them.

 

John L.

 

[dlb]

Turners Timer Repair looks like an excellent resource, thanks Turqoisedude. I will definitely keep them in mind.

 

[dlb]

update

The clock repair didn't work out. I gave the guy the clock, didn't hear from him for a week, called and asked about it, and he said he'd call me when it was done.

A week later, I didn't want to bug him but thought two weeks for what I imagined was a simple job seemed long so I called him again. He said he still hadn't gotten to it, was "crazy busy," and would try to get to it before the end of the week.

A week later, I called again. Same thing as last week.

A few days later, I decided enough was enough so I called him and said I was coming to get the clock even if he hadn't had a chance to work on it yet. I had tried to bypass the timer so we could use the oven without the clock in there but to no avail, and we have some cooking and baking to do over the holidays next week so I just put the broken clock back in.

I'm not that upset because I'm not wild about the look of this non-OEM clock, and I should be able to get the GE digital-analog clock I like repaired by General Time Repairs. So that's what I'm going to pursue now. Wish me luck.

 

[rp2813]

Post a bad review on Yelp.   At the very least, he misled you about turnaround time, and at the worst he seems not to give a rat's ass about losing someone's business for doing so.

 

[dlb]

Another update. I seem to be cursed when it comes to vintage stove timer repair places.

I got in touch with General Time Repairs about fixing the awesome 'digital' clock pictured above. Communicating with GTR was weird because they mostly seem to use cut & paste responses, so I'd ask a question and their response would be in the right ballpark of what I was asking but it would be missing specific info I needed. So that was annoying and made for a lot of unnecessary back and forth.

Regarding shipping, GTR charged $50 US to ship the clock back to me via USPS. That's an outrageous amount of money for such a small, light parcel so I asked for clarification and all they said was "it costs us more to ship to Canada." But it only cost me $15 CAD to ship it to them in the first place so I still don't understand how they can justify $50 US but i eventually decided to go ahead with it since GTR appeared to be the best option for getting this clock/timer fixed.

I'm sure they did a good job on the repair but unfortunately, when I got it back in the mail I could hear rattling inside the box -- AN ominous sign. I opened the box and found the rear portion of the timer had partially popped off, and several of the clock gears were loose in the box.

I took pictures and a video and sent them to GTR and asked what to do. They asked if the box was damaged, I said no, and at that point they basically washed their hands of it. They said if there was no damage to the box, USPS wouldn't accept responsibility so it wasn't worth pursuing it with them. Once again using their weird template responses, they suggested I send it back to them for repair "and if our techs determine the damage was not caused by normal use, you will be responsible for the costs." I asked why they would say that when they already know how the damage occurred and that it wasn't through normal use, and that I certainly wasn't going to pay twice to have this thing repaired when they weren't even willing to pursue the matter with USPS despite the fact it was clearly USPS's fault.

GTR stopped responding to me then. I was annoyed but let myself cool off for about a week. Then I got in touch again and asked how we could move forward with the situation. They finally started sending me real responses and said they would be willing to refund me the $100 US repair cost, but that they've never had anything like this happen before. I've had countless long distance and online transactions and I've never been so frustrated and disappointed with a transaction either so I guess the feeling was mutual.

Anyway, I accepted their refund and have moved on but I wanted to post the story here as a warning to anyone else who deals with them. I don't doubt they can repair a GE clock just fine but when it comes to shipping, followup, and customer service in general, General Time Repairs was a huge headache for me.