How Will You Be Keeping Warm This Winter...........

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Amazing!

How 'strange' to see all the different ways we heat our homes. I grew up in Connecticut and I remember the radiators and the oil tank spout on the side of the house for the furnace. Then we moved to Southern California and we had natural gas forced air heat. I guess I'm just naive, but isn't natural gas everywhere? I keep my house at around 70 in the winter and spend about $60 a month. (Sacramento gets COLD in the winter.. in the 30's sometimes in the day and 20-30' at night!) I can't even imagine spending several hundred dollars a month on utilities! Even if NG isn't everywhere, an electric forced air furnace isn't that much either (I spent about $90 a month when I lived in a house with an electric furnace) so why not use that?

Well, I stay warm with an electric blanket on the sofa and my dog. In bed it's the sheets, blanket, down comforter, comforter on top of that and another small comforter on top of that and an electric heating mattress pad AND my dog! LOL. I do hate the cold. Give me 110 degrees and sunshine any day.
Warm wishes to everyone this winter.
 
One thing I have noticed down here in Texas is that most houses don't have cold air returns in each room. Usually it's one big grate on the wall in the central hallway of the house, or a grate in the ceiling of the den or living room (lounge). Ours is 20x30" in size.

When I grew up in the north, each room had its own hot air return at the baseboard level and the heat outlet a little higher on the wall. In this house, all of our heat outlets are on the ceiling. We do have a gas furnace though. We pay about $65.USD each month in the winter for heat.
 
"One thing I have noticed down here in Texas is that most houses don't have cold air returns in each room. Usually it's one big grate on the wall in the central hallway of the house, or a grate in the ceiling of the den or living room (lounge)"

In my part of the north, I think most heating systems have a limited number of cold air grates. I haven't spent much time in a colder part of the north, but what few houses I've seen there have also tended to limit the grates.

Still, this may be a more modern trend.

I'm now wondering if the multiple cold air return grates doesn't explain a mystery about one house. It was built about 1950, and had a number of dead grates that dated to the original furnace. They all looked like regular heating grates, along the lower part of the wall, and even long after moving, I'd wondered about them. The furnace was changed at some point, but it seems logical to keep as much of the existing system as possible. Now, I wonder if those grates weren't cold air return grates that weren't practical to use. (The furnace location was moved when the new one was installed.)
 
One lives IN NYC but ON long Island..........

~an electric forced air furnace isn't that much either (I spent about $90 a month when I lived in a house with an electric furnace) so why not use that?

In my area one's bill will jump exponentially say from $200 to $600 per month for heat when changing from a fossil-fuel (gas,oil) to electric resistance heating.

Actually, natural gas is NOT everyhwere. It is IMO rarely in pockets of the country that do not have a high-density of poulation. Sometimes it is in areas of the commercial-strip only.

NYC has natural gas and a geat deal of fuel-oil heaiting(Especially in larger buidlngs). Rule-of-thumb here; The dirtier it is (At point of use), the less expensive it is. Fuel-oil = >natural gas=> electricity. IN NYC nearly everyone cooks with gas. In NYC clothes dryers are gas 90% of the time.

Long island has whole villages (what most would think of as towns) that don't have gas. Often, (home) builders had it avaialable but did not (pay to) bring it in the house. There is a (residential) gas/electric cooking split. Even today in those areas where gas came later, the utlity will install it for free if three neighbors "opt in". But still many won't. Safety, cost, don't like change/disruption. Who knows? On Long Island clothes dryers are moslty electric. Perhpoas the menatlaity was one eousl use a cloes line in summer and the tutliy nmeeded you to use eletcircity in winter. There were various promotions/ ads on L.I. yeas ago to use an electric dryer. Now, of course gas is encourged

I look at it this way: If you can't get natural gas you in the boonies, babe.
 
~In my part of the north, I think most heating systems have a limited number of cold air grates. I haven't spent much time in a colder part of the north, but what few houses I've seen there have also tended to limit the grates.

Better systems in colder climates have multiple returns with low supplies and high returns. This ameliorates the effect of moving air ("drafts") which is not good in winter, one feel cold.

In warmer climates one central return keeps air moving across and between rooms and helps one feel cooler,by INDUCING a draft in the home. As we all know moving air heps one's body moisture(sweat/perpiration)evaporate leading to more comfort especially in humid areas.

One (or tow) central return each fitted with a filter keeps one's return-air ducts clean. A system with many returns by necessity has only one filter by the furnce, such that all returns may become dusty.
 
~I'm now wondering if the multiple cold air return grates doesn't explain a mystery about one house.

Pehaps these were the former supply vents.

I recently saw my first gravity hot-air furnace in an ancianet home in central Connecticut. It resembles what was shown on the I love Lucy show. The supply sucts were huge and pitches so that natural air convetionsand"gravity" weoudl pull up the heat. The suppply duct and registers/vent were located along INNER walls of room, not the customary outside walls under windows. There were relatively few duct runs and there were a number fo vent back-to-back fed from one duct that served more than one room. It isinteresting to note that there were NO return-air ducts. There was simply a meshed/screened opeing at the base of the furnace to suck in air. No floor vents were noted to allow cool air to drop to the basement. If this wsa the case the furnace woeuld theoretically be creatign a positive air pressure in each (heated) room therby forcign heat out of every littel crack and crevice and preventign drafts. Of course the basement had a negative air pressure which would mean it was cold and drafty!

BTW a gravity (natural convection) furnace is properly called a hot-air furnace. A forced-air furnace is properly called a warm-air furnace with regard to supply-air temperatures.

:-0)
 
No, natural gas is not available everywhere. In the community where I live natural gas is not available but just 7 km (4.2 miles) down the road in another community, natural gas is available. Officials blame it on the expense of installation versus community population.

Gary
 
Our very own RickR has a gravity gas furnace which IIRC dates from approx. 1940, and is a Lennox. If it serves the purpose, and is efficient enough, leave it alone. Right Rick?
 
Floor Furnace here

I use a gas floor furnace..my gas bills are a little less than friends that have simialr size homes but have fan forced gas heat....the floor furnace does'nt use electricy so I save some on my electric bill..I usually turn it down to 55 during the day and between 68-70 when I'm home...we have so much humidity here...even though it's in the low 40's outside..the dampness makes it seem much colder. It's always a joke in the winter time...everyone wants to come to my house and roast hot dogs over the grate...it's also wonderful to stand over when your chilled to the bone...only problme is I have to becareful not to step bare footed on the grate..did that once...made lovely grill marks on the bottom of my foot..but then once was all it took not to do that agin. Does anyone elese have a floor furnace????
 
Toggleswitch- Even though our climate is warmer than some parts of the country, for every dollar of gas my furnace burns, 40 cents of it go up the flue. That adds up. There are two segments of modern furnaces: 80%, and 90+% efficient. With an 80% furnace, only 20 cents worth of every dollar of gas the furnace burns goes up the flue. Most 90+ furnace are 93-97% efficient, which means that only 3 to 7 cents of every dollar of gas the furnace burns goes up the flue.

Side note: Gasoline is $2.95 a gallon here now!
 
Natural Gas

Isn't widely available all over the United States either. There are parts of NYS for instance, such as Long Island, where oil is king for heating and electric for cooking that gas lines were not run. Those wishing to convert from oil to gas heat then and even some now have to contact local ultilites to make sure gas lines run up their street

While tapping the gas line from the street to one's home where no such piping exsisted, is expensive, things get really dear if one has to bring gas say from a main street or such up your street then into your home.

IIRC some power companies will try to get enough local homes in an area to sign up for natural gas service if the demand is there, so costs can be spread amoung them. Still, in some area's it is a hard sell as many people will always believe oil is cheaper than natural gas for heating.

At least Long Island and probably other places as well, the last bit is changing due to environmental and liablity laws. Selling a home with a buried oil tank is VERY difficult in the NYC area, and not many new home buyers are thrilled with indoor oil tanks either, some builders are starting to build in natural gas heating.

L.
 
Hi Christopher *WAVES*

Just as it doesn't necessarily pay in my colder climate to upgrade central cooling to the TOL two-compressor newest most energy-efficient models available in the name of saving money because it may takes upward of a decade to make that money back in terms of energy savings.

So it is in warmer climates in winter. The best/ most efficient heating equpment may be overkill and a false (overall sense of) economy.

Of course the desire to have "green" equipment and at the same time save a few bucks (quid) is honorable!

BTW I believe some areas of the south have EXTREMELY expensive natural gas as a result of dergulation and probably to pay for the captital expenditures needed to pipe in the gas to entire towns. Am I correct in this?

:-)
 
Correct you are

Yes,

It is true our natural gas bills are higher due to deregulation. Example in the summer time I heat water and have a gas range. Lowest bill was $51.00 of that $19.00 goes to Atlanta Gas and Light for their fee. $10.00 goes to Gas South for their customer fee. After taxes and other fees, my amount paid for actual gas was 11.00
 
Whenever somebody tells you that deregulation is good for you, look out. You are about to be screwed.

When they deregulated the airline industry, what happened? A bunch of airlines failed and jobs were lost in that industry.

What happened in Texas when they deregulated the Electric Companies? We are now paying some of the highest rates in the country.

The promise is "That with more competition, the price will be low". Ha! They all gang up together to decide just how much money can be squeezed out of the middle class!
 
I appreciate that whirlcool, Back in the 80's ma bell, was dereg'd, back then i think they called it divestiture (sp). I still remember my dad saying, we have the best phone company in the world why would they do that?
 
Well I think it's been a fair trade-off. Consumers are being nickled and dimed in some respects (charges for 411 directory assistance, operator assistance, etc). On the other hand, we're paying a flat fee of $30/mo. for unlimited nationwide long distance calling; back then it would have cost at least ten times as much.
 
Do one thing, but do it well.............

Deregulating oligopolies and monopolies is a mistake. They are formed that was for a reason. And the reason is that is the most efficient way (overall) to do business.

If you want competition don't let mergers happen and tighten what is considered an illlegal constraint of trade.

Deregulation only works when the donward slope of demand and the upward slope of supply are fully free to adjust themselves and properly reach equlibrium.

Telephone companies and banks (amoung others) got rid of those words in their name so that they could define themselves differenly and do more things............
 
No natural gas here...

We live in the country, houses are about 1/2 to 1 mile away from each other. We also had to blast for our foundation, the ground is full of rock and boulders, making putting in the lines nearly impossible.

We have a 1000 gallon burried propane (LP, liquified petroleum) gas tank in the yard that a truck comes and fills up. This year it looks like were going to pay between 2.49 to 2.69 per gallon of LP gas. Last winter we used about 2500 gallons to heat the house. Under pressue the propane is liquid. As soon as you open a "tap" up to ambient pressure, the liquid gas in the tank "boils" and produces vapors. It is these vapors that pass thru the piping within our house to all our appliances. We heat our water, fuel our stove and clothes dryer and heat the house with the propane. For heating we have two forced air furnaces, one in the basement that serves the basement and the first floor and the other in the attic which serves the second floor. One downfall of propane is that it has less BTU's per given volume than natural gas does. To compensate, the orifice must be changed in appliances to accomodate LP vs. Natural gas. Since the orifice is bigger, you get a bigger, stronger flame. The first time I dried a load of clothes in our LG Gas dryer, it sounded like a jet plane taking off in our laundry room. So much so in fact, that I actually called LG to come out and check the dryer. The service tech told me that LP is just louder than natural gas.
 
It's interesting to note you said that propane gives less BTUs than natural gas. The stand by generator that we have can run on either natural gas or propane. Ours runs on propane because there is no natural gas where we live. The literature that came with the generator says that running on propane the generator will produce 16 kw of power but running on natural gas it produces 15 kw ie. running on propane produces slightly more power

Gary
 
OOOPSIE our mistake means your house could have burned down!

My sister has a huge propane tank for her cooking, heating hot water and cltohes drying needs. Her gas dryer was not properly adjusted for propane gas (i.e. it was set for natural gas). The thing was short-cycling its heating ("flame-on") cycle and a great deal of light was coming out of the dryer. Light is not good; means lotsa carbon and incoplete combustion. Sears came and fixed it. The flame was much larger than it was supposed to be!

Well the heat is finally "ON" in my apartment. It was 64*F (18*C)when I got home from a weekend away. So it apears there was no heat during the day. BRRRRRRR!!!!

The heat came up with a vengeance at midnight. (Methinks the clock is 6 to 12 hours our-of-synch. with regard to AM and PM).

Two radiators have leaking/defective air-vent valves, that do not keep the steam in, but rather let it go into the room. The sound of out-rushinng steam was a bit annoying as one tried to sleep!



 
Safety Alert!!!

Toggles,

There was a safety recall on that model Vornado (I have the same one). Some had internal connectors that could short out and cause a fire.

You should not use it, but call Vornado and see if the serial number is one of those affected by the recall. Vornado will repair or replace the heater for free.
 
Thanks.

It was relegated to the garbage since I went to clean it and saw the burnt wires, and bent heating element.
 
Actually, propane gives more BTU's than natural gas for the same volume/pressure gas.

Natural gas is mostly methane, which is of the formula C2H6. Propane has an extra carbon, in the formula C3H8. The extra carbon means that propane has that much extra fuel per molecule - and gas pressure is based on the number of molecules, not on the size of the molecules.

This is why burner jets for appliances that burn propane are much smaller than the jets for same appliances set up to burn natural gas.

Of course the utility/gas companies compensate for the extra energy of propane by charging that much more for it. And then some, since it usually has to be delivered by truck and stored in special tanks, which is more expensive in the long run than just piping natural gas to your home. Also propane as I understand it is usually a by product of oil refining and therefore more sensitive to the price of oil, whilst natural gas is produced mostly domestically and less likely to vary in price in response to international events/markets.
 
Too bad, Toggs.

You probably could have returned the burnt out Vornado and gotten a new one from the company - which would have been relieved it didn't cause a dwelling conflagration.
 

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