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Have to say that with a water softener I have yet to see a difference in cleaning ability after the phosphate ban here in the EU. But without one phosphates seem to make a huge difference apparently.

Don't think self dissolving packs could get sticky enough to keep the sliding mechanism glued shut. That thing has decent force even after decades of use on ours, and those shells are designed to dissolve after all.

More likely the switch was done in conjunction with the new more sensitive sensing system and the new tablet dissolve thingy.
 
I don't think I've ever seen a dishwasher here in the states with a built-in water softener. Anybody know of one?

In any case, boosting Finish tabs with STPP works just fine at keeping the mineral deposits at bay. It would probably also work with those Costco gel packs. Also working well are vintage phosphated detergents from Cascade and Costco. It's so nice to have the Bosch working to spec again. I'd forgotten how well it works!
 
Some models of Bosch dishwashers have built-in softeners (even the ones made in US, I'm told). I think only the most TOL models are made in Germany now.

Fisher&Paykel, oddly enough, seems to sell models with built-in softeners here in US, but not in AU or NZ. Dunno why. Dunno if it counts, as some people will see them as an imported product anyway.

Miele has always sold machines with built-in softeners, but I don't know if that "counts" given that most people will see that as an import.

I am told (but am very out of the loop when it comes to dishwashers, so did not check) that some models from GE, KitchenAid and Maytag have it too. Dunno if any Whirlpool models do. Also not current if LG, Samsung etc currently sell any, it seems they keep changing their lineup every year.

And yes, that era for Bosch the detergent dispensers had holes on top to "pre-activate" the detergent. I used to have a machine bought in 1999 that had that. Great machine, lasted about 8 or 9 years with no trouble, until it broke and it was more expensive to fix than I'd like to spend. I had originally bought it on sale for around 800 bucks, and when I heard it would cost a couple of hundred for the technician to visit and then upwards of 300 for parts and labor, I bailed. I was going to buy another Bosch, but when I noticed they changed the racks, I brought my dishes to the showroom, and wouldn't you know it, they didn't fit as well as the older rack could accommodate them. Got a different brand, which has been working for over 10 years now, still going great -- also can accommodate even more dishes, cleans really well. Only fly on the ointment is that the racks are beginning to rust, very very slowly. One of these days, it will become a problem, and I expect that it will be very expensive to fix too, so I might get a new dishwasher. On the other hand, this has been the *first* dishwasher in my life that has lasted this long, except for the Bosch that made it to 8 or 9, all the others lasted 2 to 5 years, and that's depending on what and how you count, given that most of them broke during the warranty. Granted, they were fixed for free, but kept breaking at regular intervals anyway, and I've spent way more in cheaper dishwashers that didn't last long than buying good machines that clean well and last a long time with no problems and then die and gets discarded.
 
This Bosch is actually a sort of survivor.

I originally bought it from the "customer return" area of the local Sears. I think it was about $350. It was in perfect shape until the kids manning the loading dock dropped it off the fork lift (I heard the crash, one of them came out and asked me "Do you still want it?" without telling me what had happened. I said "Yes, of course!". When I got it home I noticed the upper rack wouldn't close all the way. Looking inside I noticed an inward dent at the upper right corner, at the upper rack. I took my fist and pounded it back into shape. No problems related to that since (and I didn't want to go back to the Sears clown show to return it).

Now with the recent DIY repairs it seems to be running perfectly.

When it comes time to replace it, I'll look for a model with an internal water softener. Does anyone have a model number that has the WS?
 
Ahem...

I already posted a link to a water softener equipped Bosch DW for SALE in the USA.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bosch-300-...ood Prep & Cleaning-_-&k_clickID=_k_Cj0KCQiAk

However i notice that the Bosch DW's with water softeners all seem to be rather pricey, over $1000 list price.

I've looked for an LG with water softener, but they do not seem to exist. Supposedly there are Whirlpools with water softeners but I haven't located one yet. And, my other criterion would be no exposed heating element. And price of around $500!
 
Forgot those came to the USA...

These Arcrelik machines have become a stable and good choice in the budget sector of the market.
Whike far from perfect, these machines usually perform relativley decent for their price.
Washers and dishwashers both have quick options for full loads that perform astoudingly well and that appeals to many.
 
Most of us would not buy a new dishwasher sight unseen, and I've never seen a Bloomberg, or an Arecelik dishwasher. If I can see it in a local showroom, then I might consider ordering one on-line. But even Bosch DW's with water softeners are hard to find locally, in person.

I've also noted that none of these websites allow one to filter search results by water softener status. So you have to wade through a lot of choices and then drill down to the specs, and if you're lucky they'll list whether or not the DW has a built in water softener.

Perhaps it's because the USA generally has softer water than Europe, apparently.

Here in California, the water hardness seems to vary seasonally. Our four year drought has also seemed to result in harder water. After a month of heavy rains, I suspect the water here is softer than it was before New Year's. Part of the fun of living in the Golden State.
 

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