I don't understand why manual filter dishwashers are so popular...

[murando531]

...especially with how lazy society has gotten in general when it comes to "chores" like laundry and dishes; hence the popularity of terrible detergent pods and Auto-Sense cycles. Why is it appealing to get down in the bottom of the machine and unscrew a filter that has to be cleaned after every load (unless you scrub the dishes clean before loading them, again, adding more work and water consumption) if the majority of people "don't want to have to think about it"? Consumer Reports adds to every review "has a manual filter that needs to be cleaned periodically, which you might prefer over the noise of a self-cleaning dishwasher", but upon hearing a true self cleaning automatic and a filtered model side by side, the new ones are actually louder, considering that you hear the mechanism every 10 minutes or so that alternates the flow to each wash arm. The only sound that an older self-cleaning machine (PowerClean or Point Voyager) makes is a quiet hum and the muffled sound of water cascading around the machine. Plus, the difference in the results of the older models is like night and day compared to the shortcomings of these new eco-models.

 

[pulsator]

My dad has had a Bosch dishwasher with a manual filter since 2005, my mom has had the same model since 2006. Neither of them scrub or rinse the dishes, only scrape the chunks off, and we have never ever had to clean the filer. We check the filters every couple of months but the filters are always spotlessly clean just like the dishes that come out of the dishwashers.

 

[washman]

murando531, any time the word "eco"

is attached to something, we're all suppsoed to geneflect, bow down, and accept it as good no matter what the other remifications are.

I can recall when CR USED to ding dishwashers that required manual filter cleaning. But of course since it supposedly "saves" water, that makes it ok now.

 

[foraloysius]

I have always had dishwashers with "manual filters". But as long as you use a good detergent, those filters don't need cleaning. Dirt will be dissolved and pumped down the drain. The filters are self cleaning. This has nothing to do with eco, in Europe we always had this kind of filter. There are less moving parts, so less can break down.

 

[petek]

I barely ever check the filter because after 10 years of owning filter type machines it was exceedingly rare to find anything to rinse out.

 

[logixx]

I suppose the biggest misconception is that people tend to confuse dryer lint filters with dishwasher filters. Lint screens in dryers have to be cleaned after each use - dishwasher filters not.

We made oatmeal cookies a few days ago: a real sticky mess covering several bowls and utensils. The next day, I threw everything in the Bosch and 55 minutes everything was spotless. Water usage was 2.6 gal for a 150F wash, heated rinse, 150F final rinse and ten minutes of drying.

Besides, I'd rather take 20 seconds to remove a piece of broken glass, a bit of paper/sticker or the infamous "fibrous material" from a manual clean filter than to remove the pump assembly because the grinder chocked on it.

Alex

 

[brisnat81]

You'd have to be throwing actual food in the dishwasher to need to clean a manual clean filter.

I scrape the solids into the garbage disposal and load the dishwasher with food bits, sauces and gravy's all over the plate, small bits of broccoli, potato, meat, bread etc all end up in the dishwasher and are all gone by the end of the cycle.

The only thing I find in there every few months might be a bit of plastic or something light that, but otherwise it is self cleaning.

 

[whirlykenmore78]

Manual filter DWs

What people forget is, even if the filter flushes clean at the end of the cycle. The final rinse water is still running through it AND THE FOOD IT CAUGHT! There is NO way the dishes can be free of food particulate when the rinse water is RUN THROUGH IT! No screen is that fine.
WK78

 

[mrb627]

Filters

I don't pre-rinse dishes and I find far less residue on my dishes than the last dishwasher I had with a grinder in it.

Malcolm

 

[frigilux]

As others have pointed out, a manual-clean filter requires far less attention than one might suspect. I avoided them like the plague until I purchased a GE PDT750 in December. I've never had to clean the large flat filter on the floor of the machine, and the ultra-fine gets a rinse under the faucet once every 10 to 14 days, whether it needs it or not.

I don't do anything more than scrape large chunks off dishes. I have people in for dinner (and breakfast, brunch and lunch) frequently, so the dishwasher runs one to three times a day, and often all day long on weekends, when I spend a significant amount time in the kitchen and tend to have the most company.

Dishwashers without food choppers can be quieter. The PDT750 is nearly silent---several decibels quieter than the LG it replaced. The LG was very quiet, so the whirring sound of the food disposer was actually noticeable. The Maytag, Frigidaire, and KitchenAid dishwashers I had prior to that were a little louder, so the sound of the food disposer was masked. I appreciate a hushed dishwasher since I spend a lot of time in the kitchen. A more assertive machine can get annoying to listen to after a few hours.

Both the LG and GE dishwashers have alternate rack washing, and the sound of the changeovers is virtually unnoticed. On several occasions, I've had people in my kitchen who didn't even realize the GE was running.

Both the LG and GE dishwashers, which use only 3.5-5 gallons per Normal cycle clean dishes and pots/pans better than the other aforementioned models, which used more water. Granted, the cycles are longer these days---the GE's Normal cycle is 1 hour + 15 minutes without a heat boost and 1 hour + 51 minutes with one---but I use the GE's Express (30 minutes) and Light (49 minutes) cycles frequently with loads that don't contain pots/pans and experience excellent results.

If you simply don't want to deal with a manual filter, there are plenty of well-equipped MOL models with food disposers. And if you aren't convinced that low water-use machines can do the job, there are plenty of vintage machines out in the world that use 10-14 gallons per cycle.

Cascade Platinum and Cascade Complete detergent pods do an excellent job of cleaning. I have soft water, so that may make a difference.

[this post was last edited: 2/27/2014-18:22]

 

[washman]

Whoa frig!

You said PODS.

Again!

In all honesty, I have to thumbs up you on this. My new GE does a much better job with the Cascade pod than it does with any kind of powder. Seems the cup is deep and the water just does not really get in there to push out the powder.
In fact the user guide specifically calls for Cascade pods to be used "for best results".

For kicks, I tried the Finish tablets with the red powerball and found the results to be lacking.

 

[washman]

Here's some shots of the load before

Pancake batter in a bowl.

Sticky Log Cabin syrup on plate

Assorted utensils

Coffee cups.

Cereal bowls.

2 ashtrays.

Been sitting since Monday.

1 Finish power tab, the one with the red ball in the middle.

Apologies for the lame photo stitch, I tried MS Paint and I now know my skill set is not in photo editing.

 

[washer111]

Personally, I don't mind manual-clean filters, so long as they keep themselves clean. The only thing that good ones can't handle is excessive amounts of meat trimmings or "disposable" food objects that don't disintegrate with the wash.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, provided I don't eat huge amounts of oatmeal (particularly with Physillium Husks), the DishDrawer's kidney drain filter and filter plate stay mostly clean. There is a jet underneath the wash arm that swoops accumlation to what I assume are dead areas around the filter where water cannot flow, due to obstruction. The Drain filter, being broken in half (lost its top) also gets a wash from the jet, and mostly stays clean. The flow of the water into the sump area during the drain period also flushes some debris and captures other.

What the machine doesn't seem to do is gobble up salad... It seems that if any remains on the plate before washing, you'll find it in the shallowest area of the drawer (at the back) after the cycle, and the filter jet doesn't sweep it.

What it will do with its rubber impeller is gobble up rice, spaghetti, pasta and oatmeal. You can certainly hear it during drain periods - little crunching sounds as the force of the objects against the pump wall and impellers beat them into submission. Cool

 

As for detergent choices, I've found that any good detergent dosed correctly will keep the filter mostly clean. I avoid the Fairy tabs, except for burnt on loads, which only happen very occaisionly. Using the Heavy cycles (With or without Eco modifier) guarantee the filter stays clean - so perhaps I should use them more often.

My other comment of detergent: Morning Fresh and "Earth Choice" powders both seem to leave white dust in the bottom of the machine, under the filter. I'm surprised, as the water supplied isn't hard. I'm guessing its the washing soda or Phosphate replacement causing my dilemma.

 

[rapunzel]

If the manual filters are so wonderful why do so many consumers have problems with stinky dishwashers? And why are they now selling dishwasher cleaners and deodorizers? Such things were not heard of 30 years ago.

Admittedly there are some improvements to manual filters - they don't have as many removable parts for cleaning and if one uses the hottest and strongest cycle regularly they keep pretty clean. I quite like the filters in my F&P drawers. They require very little attention and there are only two removable parts. Though, with older dishwashers I used, filters were made up of numerous parts that were fiddly to take apart and put together; some with sharp edges that could cut your skin and they did need periodic checking and cleaning.

I've never had a smelly dishwasher problem ever, and put that problem down to users primarily opting for the eco programs rather than choosing the longest/hottest cycle regularly. My brother in law is one of these people. He stuffs the dishwasher full to the brim, doesn't scrape nor rinse, and picks the fast cycle with eco option for everything. All that does is rinse stuff into the filter without actually getting it out of the machine and some dishes still feel greasy; but that doesn't phase him. It's been through the machines and, as far as he is concerned, it's clean. With modern dishwashers not using much water to properly flush out everything, I reckon the constant use of short, low-temp eco cycles to be the culprit of malodor.

My personal preference still is and always will be the quintessential American dishwasher with built-in grinder - can't beat that for looks, speed, performance and convenience. In my humble opinion the older machines looked a lot better too. I don't see much of an aesthetic in anything modern - to me it all looks minimalistic (bland), cheap and mass-produced. [this post was last edited: 2/28/2014-02:45]

 

[nmassman44]

I have to chime in here as well...My Miele dishwasher has the "manual filter" that really is a self cleaning one since after 40 cycles, it will nag me to clean the filters, and when I do there isnt anything in the hopper part where the food collects to be pumped down the drain. My machine uses 6 gallons of water, has the alternating arms and there is a jet aimed at the filter that jets the food particles into the center of the filter. Rarely do I have anything on the filter. And I dont pre wash/rinse anything that goes into it. I have been using the Cascade Complete pacs that do an outstanding job on everything. I have a stash of Finish PowerBalls and Quantum that I use as well.

 

[thomasortega]

I have a countertop Electrolux that is very similar to that countertop Haier sold in the US. It has a filter and the second load I ran in it was the "Maytag's Chocolate cake test" on it with 1/4 or a chocolate cake simply thrown over the load.

After the cycle there wasn't even a trace of food or chocolate cake on the dishes, the machine or the filters.  The machine was fully loades with really dirty and greasy items and I used a tablet of Unilever's Sun.

That machine really impressed me a lot. it's really small and it has only one rack but it can handle much more than one would think. The water consumption really surprised me. I installed the machine and ran the first cycle in it, i could barely see the water a few milimeters above the filter plate. It didn't even cover the whole sump and the first thing I thought was that the machine won't clean or rinse properly. The normal cycle takes 2 hours and the Eco cycle takes 3, the same as the pots and pans cycle. Ok, they are long but the water and energy consumption are nothing compared to the two other dishwashers i have. And as I always run the dishwasher at night, before i go to bed, i don't care if it's going to take 2, 3 or 8 hours to finish the cycle. Actualy i've been using the eco-nazi cycle because it saves an insignificant amount of electricity but it cleans very well too.

I never found dirty items after the wash. It's a wonderful machine.

This machine has a few months now (maybe  6 months) and I check the filter monthly. Honestly, i never had to wash it because it looks like the machine was never used before. The only thing i did was rinse it quickly under the tap to get rid of a big slice of champignon that was trapped in the coarse filter. I didn't even have to open the filter and that was only once.

I noted the wash arm has a tiny "fan" hole on the bottom, that sweeps the sump and every time it drains, it also opens the fill valve for 3 or 4 seconds right after it drains but before the pump turns off, before each rinse.

I never pre rinse the dishes, I simply scrape big things and I don't care about small amounts of rice or pasta left behind. After I load, the door is nasty with sauces, remainings in glasses, etc

The machine always drains before it starts the first fill and there's always so many liquids that i can see the mess comming out of the drain hose in the sink. 

Other thing i hoticed, the machine has another jet below the sump filter and there's a tiny pipe in the filter that connects to it when the filter is in position and locked.. When the machine drains, part of the water is pumped back and makes a whirlpool in the filter flushing the fine mesh.
The other two countertop dishwashers (Brastemp) have filters that look like a small basket and that's a PITA. I have to clean them every few loads because even rice gets trapped in there. 

 

[dj-gabriele]

Having never used a dishwasher with a grinder I can't comment on them but having used the "supposed" manual cleaning filters ones I can comment on them a lot.

Me and my sister in law have the same dishwasher: both machines run flawlessly since 2006, obviously both have the same filtering system.
She complained of the smell of her machine while mine was always pristine, what is the difference?
She pre-rinses her dishes and used the ECO cycle and didn't even know that you could remove the filter to clean it if needed, I never use the ECO cycle but just the intensive and normal one according to the load, never pre-rinse anything and check the filter when I top up the salt for the the softener once every 2-3 months.
The filer, even the micro-mesh one is clean 99% of the times except the odd piece like a lemon seed or a little bit of plastic wrapping, not a time where I found rotting food or else.
When I showed my sister in law that she should check (and how to do it) the filters when I removed the thing it was just as clean as mine from debris but it was full of muck because of the low temperature washing!

So that's it, to me it pretty much explains the "smelly" dishwasher problem.

My parents on the other hand have a much more sophisticated dishwasher that has an even lower water use and a similar 3 stage filtration system, and my parents use a lot of olive oil when cooking, so you can imagine how greasy the stuff is when they're done their cooking, plus they almost don't even scrape the plates once finished, the dishwasher is used almost like a bin... and yet the filter needs "cleaning" just once or twice a year as it indeed is self cleaning! No debris at all(even seeds here gets flushed away during the counter-flow draining), the only problem ever is if they use the "bio" low temperature cycle with no prewash by mistake: the filter doesn't clean as well as it stays greasy despite the dishes feeling and looking clean. Anyway this problem is sorted the first time a hi-temperature cycle is run.

And what's a dishwasher cleaner? Never ever used one except for some citric acid for descaling once in a while as a safety measure (dishwashers have built-in softeners as standard)

So all in all, I don't think that the problem resides in the filters but in how the dishwasher is used and as usual ECO doesn't rhyme with clean. (at least to what I consider clean)

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Gimme a grinder dishwasher machine any day!!! Not the crappy modern euro stuff with those microfilters, ie US new eco:crap and BS like that! Have to agree that while in older models with mamual filter what you may get left could have been no much like today and eventually even no trace for certain foods
like pasta, rice, potatoes or dissolvable fine foods, for others types indeed it was not and of course is not now, to make a few examples, spinach, ground meat from ragú, pieces of scrambled eggs, much of proteic and cellulose stuff... or whatever not easily dissolvable, older models despite being better thsn today still were anyway incomparable to grinding models, and now with todays machines...well don't let me speak please...
i had the luck to use american grinding machines and can confirm here they sure are better cleaning!
But as for everything...they're opinions..
I have changed 6 dishwasher in 5 years, all because of a poor washing, I could use the highest and strongest wash, I could do double washes, i could put three times more the reccomended dose of detergent, I could use the most TOL product available but food both on dishes and filters would be there and would not go away...
I quitted using my 6 months old Bosch and I just leave it there to do mot leave an empty block under the counter, am desperately waiting and seeking to find a real dishwasher possibly with food liquidizer/grinding stuff like a VTG zoppas stovella, i am even thinking of importing an american one as I discovered an italian guy from new jersey that has a business specialized in shipping and that for a thing as big as a washer just ask 500 bucks to ship to Italy ( https://www.spedizionidagliusa.com/) i would also be happy with an older euro with the removable filter that at least does not leave so much of dirt behind in the machine as todays' ones..
So, if you wanted an experience and opinion, here is mine..
IMO not paragonable at all.... And wondering and not understanding such things the same way, , actually there're many other things i do not understand and i I wonder of today....
[this post was last edited: 2/28/2014-08:36]

 

[ozzie908]

Have used many dishwashers over the years but the best by ..

far are the F&P dishdrawers I have had for the last 4 years, No matter what is thrown at it it gets everything clean, it uses less water than the sink less electricity than a water heater and even dries plastic items with its drying fan.

I have only on a few occasions taken the filters out to clean and as other have said above you may find an object more than a lump of food I used to rinse everything but now have 2 dogs who do the job nicely.

As for detergent I have always found powder worked better than anything but it is getting harder to find so a quick ebay search found me a 10kg bucket for the cost of £10 including postage this powder turned out to be ground up Finish powerball tabs so even better you often find a unground lump of red powerball in the dispenser but that goes after a couple of cycles but the results are superb glasses shine like they have been polished and stainless steel looks like new so whats not to like?

Austin