I got the feel-a for the Miele....the vacuums we sell....

[lightedcontrols]

My mother and sister both have Miele vacs and love them. I have their Incognito dishwasher which is the pitts. All their appliances seem to be well made but I would steer clear of their dishwashers. Mark

 

[petek]

Mark, what about the dishwasher don't you like? I've had mine 5+ years now and it's as close to perfect as you'll find. It's not an Incognito but the wash system is basically the same.

 

[air-waycharlie]

Air-Way

Chad,

Thanks for including Air-Way in your post about vacuums that last a long time. I am the only, as far as I know, Air-Way distributor/dealer/authorizied franchisee in North Carolina. The great thing about selling Air-Way's is that they almost NEVER need service! Other than replacement bags, (Filtrete now available through Black Knight), filters and brushroll inserts, nothing goes wrong!

I did have a customer this past week that needed her power cord replaced and the grand total for that was $12.00 for the cord and $24.95 for the service call. We also gave her for FREE a new HEPA filter, michrobial filter and activated charcoal filter, (odor control), for free. Also, we replaced her full bag, (typical), with one of the new new Filtretes so she can test it out. In addition, her machine was cleaned and all metal parts buffed to a mirror sheen.

When I take Air-Way vacuum cleaners apart that were made 30-60 years ago, I am amazed at how clean the motors are as well as the bag cages. Typically, the only crud you find is carbon brush dust. I recently sold mint models 55A, 66 and 77 to fellow collectors and they still perform beautifully with original cords, motors, wands and tools. Not like today.

I challenge just about any vacuum against the Signature Series/Centurion and Sani-Clean/New Century. I just don't think there is much out there that can out clean them. I could do a whole schpeil on the wonders of Air-Way but I won't!

I do think the Miele product line is exceptionally good. Quiet, lightweight, maneuverable, adaptable to a variety of cleaning needs, great filtration, blah, blah. I do not like their rigid rules pertaining to MAP pricing. I do not like how they dictate to new Miele dealers. I think the product is overpriced for an all plastic bodied foreign made vacuum. Americans seem to think if it says, "Made In Germany", or "Made In France", it is a superior product.

I still like supporting companies and buying products made in the good old USA if they are tried and true and Air-Way is one of them. Unfortunately, it is a small company that does not think out of the box, resists change and doesn't market. So, in the long run, Miele will be the winner.

Great thread you started and I hope more post.

Charlie

 

[petek]

A local hardware/car parts store I dropped in on today had the Hoover Windtunnel bagless not self propelled, on sale for $99 Cdn, that would be about $79 US. Tempting but I can't see even that little for a piece of flimsy plastic. Not long ago the self propelled bagless was on sale for $239 Cdn, about $179 US..why are they seemingly dumping these things.

 

[lightedcontrols]

Hi PeteK

Things that I don't like about a Miele Dishwasher....
#1. Each piece of silverware has to be placed just so in the silverware tray. Usually there is at least one or two that don't come clean.
#2. Dinner plates seem to nest together and usually one will come out dirty....either the front of the plate OR the back.
#3. It takes 145 minutes on the SHORTEST cycle. (except Rinse & Hold)
#4. Even with all of the racking possibilities, it's still hard to load. I can never seem to get a dinner meals dishes and pans in one load.
#5. It doesn't wash pots & pans very well at all.
THE ONLY THING THAT I LIKE ABOUT THE MACHINE IS THAT IT'S QUIET. Mark

 

[petek]

Mark
I passed on the cutlery tray when I bought mine, thankfully, I could tell it would be a pain to load, the baskets so much easier to lift in and out to the counter for loading and unloading..
I don't have any problem loading dishes, I have two types, the thin Corelle and a thicker deeper Ironstone, they all seem to fit in well either on the top rack or the bottom rack leaving me one or the other for pots and pans, which always come out great.. Can you not fit full size dishes on the top rack when the cuterly tray is in there?
Also I figured with that cutlery rack, it's in the way of the top spray arm cleaning the dishes on the top rack.

 

[foraloysius]

I noticed the tines in American dishwashers are further apart from eachother. Perhaps that is the problem. BTW Mark, what detergent are you using? Miele dishwashers require an enzyme based product, don't use detergent with chlorine bleach.

I noticed all dishwashers have longer cycle times. Miele dishwashers used to be much faster too. I guess that's because dishwashers use less water nowadays.

 

[brisnat81]

Cycle Times

Hi Guys,

My G2220 has a fast wash option that can have the dishes in and out in 30 minutes. (Thats with Cold water Inlet) I find for lightly soiled loads that this works perfectly. I usually use the sensor wash cycle which comes at out between 1:50 and 2:10 depending on how well I've scraped/rinsed before I put it on. Sensor wash Gentle only requires 1:30 to complete.

I guess that is a long time, but when entertaining, usually I put Entree dishes and pans in, before I sit down to mains. By the end of dessert the first load is finished. and I put in mains, dessert dishes and run it through again. The next morning, I'll put the remaining pans through on a Pots cycle. It takes a while, but it doesnt impact upon me.

I've found that things like wooden spoons just dont work in the cutlery tray. Whichever side isnt up, doesnt get cleaned very well. However I've never had an issue with Knives, forks, spoons etc. They always come out clean.

One reason you might have space issues, is that on the older models, unless you went TOL, you didnt get a Tall tub cabinet. Tall tub gives you 4cm more interior room.

On the new range G2000 series, they're all tall tub. I find this makes a huge difference to the amount of usuable space. I refused to get one with a cuttlery tray, until I could afford the talltub version.

Its all horses for courses, but I love mine in the 4 months I've had it.

Regards

Nathan

 

[kenmore1978]

wooden items

"I've found that things like wooden spoons just dont work in the cutlery tray."

The instructions for every dishwasher I've ever seen say not to wash wooden items.

 

[brisnat81]

If its not a disposable item

I'm talking about wooden mixing spoons. They cost me a dollar each, and last indefinitely.

I think that warning was originally for two things.

1) Wooden items could dislodge, fall on the drying element and burn.

2) Wooden items are damaged by the heat etc.

I dont put wooden bowls etc in there, just the almost disposable stuff.

Regards

Nathan

 

[petek]

That's what I do, buy the really cheap wooden ladels, spoons, etc at a dollar store. They'll last quite a few times thru the dishwasher and then just toss em or use them for out in the yard or something else. I wouldn't put a goood wood handled knife or board in there though,, so I don't have any of those.. If it aint dishwasherable, it aint in my kitchen LOL

 

[kenmore1978]

If it aint dishwasherable...

I totally agree. I follow the same philosophy with clothes, if I can't wesar it straight out of the dryer, it's not in my closet.

 

[tolivac]

I think Miele makes some very nice vacs-but as Air Way Charlie points out-The air Ways could easily win in the durability test-the Air-Way is ALL METAL-less plastic-and--the air Way is less expensive from most dealers.At one time Air-Ways were a DTD brand.Now they are carried by dealers.The air-Way bag cans still hold its own in the filtration dept.I talked to the air Way factory folks a few years ago and they pointed out that their special long fiber Air-Way bags are the only vacuum bag with a HEPA certification.Then you add the Air-Way filters in the machine-and yes their motors stay clean and last for decades.In all respect to Miele--Will a machine purchased say today---be still running and used 50 years from now?Plastic-Even ABS-suffers from "Age Cracking"plasticizers leach out of the plastic over the years rendering it brittle and prone to cracking.Miele does use a high quality ABS resin though-just wonder if it will last 50 years.
I do like the Miele SEB#236 powernozzle.The Red Velvet comes with it-at least in the dealer in my area.It does have some clever features-like the "Knife and scissor" channel along the roller brush allowing you to cut hairs,string,thread caught in it-also the "spool" end of the roller brush to prevent those things from getting caught in the brush roll bearings and tearing them up.Hair will esp tear them up because it is small in thickness and tough.The thing I don't like about the nozzle--is TOO much plastic.The polished floor shoes are better-more durable and easier to push.I think c anister powernozzles as a whole need more weight on them so they don't just skim over the floor.I still prefer an upright such as the Royals or Kirbys on my carpets-just use the powernozzles where thee uprights don't fit.The canister bags will fill too quickly for carpets.
when we speak of the "premium" vacuums,wether it be Kirbys,TriStars,Rainbows,Mieles,Air-Ways,Rainbows,Royals,ETC That is a small price to pay for the care of your home and contents-and even for the interior of your car.and the monhly payments on any of those is still far less than paying for a maid or cleaning service.And yes--the bags for the Mieles and Air-ways,etc are pretty reasonable in price.You just have to watch what the dealer is going to charge and remind them if they try to charge too much-I knew a Kirby dealer that would try to soak you on the price of bags.I would remind Her.she would say--"I'm sorry Mr Oliver-you are right"

 

[air-waycharlie]

More on Air-Way..........

Tolivac,

Thanks for your endorsement of Air-Way! I find it comical, on some level, at this point in my vacuum career, that you can buy an Air-Way for $625, (top model, my price), all metal bodied, hand assembled machine with HEPA filtration, crushproof hose, 12 amp motor, ergonomically designed handle with on/off switch, 30 foot cord, beater brush agitator, 25 year warranty on the motor, 4 height ajustment setting on the power nozzle, gear driven brush roll and 3 different types of bags for filtration compared to plastic molded injection vacuums, with limited features, made in Malaysia, limited warranties on every item, short cords, complicated tool attachments, poorly designed add-ons, etc. for over $1200!!

Does the American vacuum buying public ever do any homework? And if you are trusting consumer reports.............well, no comment. Well, folks out there buying $1400 Fisher and Pykel washer and dryers, $1200 Miele dishwashers, $2000 Sub-Zero refrigerators, $2000 Vulcun stoves and $150 Hoover Windtunnels!! Something is askew. (and really dumb), here!!

Typically, the most expensive "furnishing" in someone's one is is the carpeting and/or flooring and but people want to spend the LEAST amount of money on the upkeep of that item. It stymies me! You build a $400,000 dollar home, put in all the "kitchen jewelry", Berber carpet or Sisal carpet, all tile floors and then buy the most disposable, dust blowing vacuum that will probably last 5 years or less.

Okay, I give up!! Those buying a nice double wide, (trailer or modular), with builder basic carpet that would like to breathe clean air with no dust mites, pollen, animal dander, etc. that would like to spend $625 or less on an Air-Way with a 25 year warranty on the motors,(your grandchildren will use it like I am doing with my Grandmother Mark II 88), please let me know! 90 days same as cash for qualified buyers..............

Charlie

 

[hoover1060]

The vacuum has become disposable...

I don't know when exactly it happened, but the vacuum is no longer durable goods, like a washer/dryer/dishwasher/fridge is, and vacuuming is not glamourous no matter how fancy the apron you wear or how expensive the vacuum you use.
I don't own a Miele, but have had a chance to play with one an each Fred's house. They have some neat features, quiet, mobility, suction, filtration...
Their power nozzles are kinda funky. Much like Mr Dyson's cleaners, it looks like the Miele's are designed for Eurpoean homes and not for American ones.
I know several people who have bought Mieles too, never heard a bad review of one either.
Would I want one? The Miele to me is like some of the brands Charlie mentioned: Sub Zero, Vulcan, Fischer & Paykel...add Bosch too, a gourmet brand for the label conscious.
For a plastic vacuum, its too expensive.
As an aside, Fred N loaned me his Dyson for a bit and I have been using it.
Watch for a review coming soon...

 

[tolivac]

yes Air Way charlie-I noticed the same while trying to sell TriStars DTD.You would go into an expensive home-beautiful furnishings,expensive flooring,but they have a Dirt Devil,Dusty Hoover Bagless Windtunnel(Always in the homes of PET owners)-and yes I have found NICER vacuums in the doublewides and trailer homes.And these folks like the higher end machines-was a surprize.Found them with Kirbys,Filter Queens and Rainbows.But now--High end machines sell poorly here.Don't know how the Miele dealer will make out-time will tell-he opened in July.The only surviving high end dealers are Aeros and Rainbow-the others have closed.

 

[partscounterman]

Sorry Chad...

but I think Charlie just sold me an Airway!

Charlie- I had no idea that the Airway was so reasonably priced- I figured it was one of those over $1000 machines.

I don't care how fancy a vacuum is or what its price tag is, I cannot get excited about a plastic vacuum cleaner. They can tout plastic all day long-it all gets brittle and cracks after a while. Plastic vacuums, plastic washers-its all krusher food.

Of course, this doesnt solve Chads problem of how to sell more of the Miele machines. May I suggest you appeal to peoples vanity. Suggest that your fine customers deserve the best, quietest machine. It is funny how people will blow thier money in a casino, then get all penny pinching on a vacuum cleaner.

Oh, and by the way Chad, I'm happy to hear you are once again back in the vacuum industry that you love.

 

[tolivac]

Mieles,Kirbys,TriStar,RainbowsAir-Ways,Filter Queens,whatever--The dealers I spoke to said sales a down-and its not just my area.It seems folks go to Sears,Wall-Mart,K-Mart,Cosco,etc to buy their vacuums.they don't care if the Hi end machines will eprform better or last longer,or filter better.And its the "rich" folks that buy the cheapies too.Yes,to sell the hi-end machines -you have to show what it can do,and do it better,and how long they can last-At least the Mieles are made of a better quality plastic than some.Will check out the Sears Kn-Panasonic machine this weekend.Said to have the same quality HEPA filters as a Miele and Filtrete bags.Of all the Hi-end machine beleive the air-Way gives the most bang for the buck-Hepa quality filtration-metal body-equalized suction pressure on the bag(bag cage)The Signature model just may make a Miele shopper happy!

 

[programcomputer]

Thank you Everyone for the replies...

So,

I just got back my iBook after being down for awhile becasuie of cruddy technical difficulties. Anyhew..heres my end to this.

This is what I own to clean my house and it's a large three story thing built in yes folks 1894.

Lemme give you a insight into what I deal with when it comes to cleaning. It's on a pivitol main drag and cross street that was there before electricity and water. Becasue of this...even today i have to deal with road dust and grime coming thru the original single pane windows, and general air /dirt leaks of an old house. I also have two roomates and my new significant living with me. Plus my new dog Dukey.

I mean, Water wasnt even piped into Ypsilanti until 1898 and yes my house was one of the first to be plumbed for it considering that the original 1898 water tower is locatd at the top of the hill by Eastern Michigan University, on Washtenaw Ave. and yes is still working and supplies my water.

So, with that in mind, and the fact that my house diddn't get electricity until 1937, and that it has steam heat from YES a huge gas boiler being converted sometime in the 70's to gas from COAL, and their still being coal dust and crap in the Michigan basement... if that gives you at ALL a view into what I am into , you can't even begin to IMAGINE what I have to clean....

Anyway...when I moved into this house...it appeared that I had NOt been cleaned properly since 1978. I spent two days and countless amounts of cleaning products getting it into liveable shape. It had been recently converted back from being seperate apartments, to a single home. Thustly, I have three bedrooms and a rec room upstairs with a bathroom, all with hardwood bare floors. A first floor with all berber and partial hardwood in the kitchen and bathroom, complete iwth a nice water closet ( yeah my potty is IN A CLOSET). And a loft above our kitchen and bathroom that we have converted into a computer den. there is also a master bedroom on the first floor which is mine and my laundry is off that and the bathroom. So in all I have 10 rooms to celan or have get clean..so my good ol' Eureka empress wasn't gonna cut it.

Enter in Duke. That was all I could handle and i wasn't going to ruin the Eureka so I got the Royal PowerTank model 4650. It has the 10 foot hose, double brush powerhead, super filtration and a seperate wand for my bare floors. the attachments are well made and worthy of their seperate praises. In all for what I have had to clean now for almost two months i have filled one bag full of smut, and partial of another. I use the HEPA j stly Pony tank bas and the Micro fresh filter behind.

Becasue I'm an ARN like some, I WAS using my Hoover Convertible. But again being OLD, and in greast shape...I was again terrified of ruining yet again ANOTHER oldie of mine..so I went BACK to lansing and grabbed my 16 inch Sanataire Wide Track with the QuickClean fan chamber. I replaced the goofy VGI with a double brush VGII looking thing that uses two brushes instead of a beater bar. This arrangement pretty much allows the machine to propell itself. and I changed the bag over from it's original dump system to A paper bag conversion...WHY becasue no one should ever have to dum a filthy smut laden bag filled with dog hair and skin feces. No thanks. I also use Hepa F& G bags as well cutting down emissions fairly well.

Would I buy a Miele...well no not right now. I got an excellent deal on the Sanitaire years ago as a demo, and the Royal...well for what my boss told me I could have it for...I felt like I was stealing it. And you better believe before he could change his obviously confused mind...wrote him a check in toto and put that machine in the trunk of my Town Car never to be seen by him again.

Do I have an Air-Way..yep i do three of them. A straight suction upright , a 66 and an 88 Mark II. why do I choose not to use it...Well It's old in fairly good shape, has been restored to as near perfect and mint condition as I could possibly do...although I have never found the ABC powerhead that was originally supplied with the DirtMaster logo attached. And well I'm saving it for posterity.

And besides, that Powertank is an obvious copy of the Air-Way Sani-Clean, and in that I feel safe that I made a great choice....especially when he only asked for the price of the replacement parts that I wanted and AT cost. $89.75.

So that's it. In the future I hope to own a Miele and put it to the challenges that I face. Yet becasue I am searching as well for a home in my area to become a more permanent fixture...I may not have to deal with what I have written above.

That' All

Chad

 

[kenmore1978]

old house

No electricity unti NINETEEN THIRSTY-SEVEN?! Wow. All gas lighting in use till that time? IF so, do they still work?