Tea or coffee Randy? one lump or two?
I have never heard someone get on TV and
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randycmaynard
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Prefer Tea........
Leave the lumps out..... too many of those already!
Leave the lumps out..... too many of those already!
Wa-wa-wa-wa-Waterloo!
WE GOT HEALTH CARE BAAAABYYYYYYYY!!!!!!
We should be rejoicing, singing and dancing in the streets Democrats, Liberals and Progressives - we did it! This is a massive victory for our country, our congress, and our president. This sends a huge message to the entire world that despite the deep divisions in our society, we can pull our collective heads out of our asses, recognize a problem and begin to solve it! This bill isn't perfect, it doesn't solve every problem but it's a beginning. I've been doing the Charlie Brown Happy-Dance for two days - we did it!
A quick link to give some balance to the feeble right-wing propaganda machine - from a Republican no less!
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
WE GOT HEALTH CARE BAAAABYYYYYYYY!!!!!!
We should be rejoicing, singing and dancing in the streets Democrats, Liberals and Progressives - we did it! This is a massive victory for our country, our congress, and our president. This sends a huge message to the entire world that despite the deep divisions in our society, we can pull our collective heads out of our asses, recognize a problem and begin to solve it! This bill isn't perfect, it doesn't solve every problem but it's a beginning. I've been doing the Charlie Brown Happy-Dance for two days - we did it!
A quick link to give some balance to the feeble right-wing propaganda machine - from a Republican no less!
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
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www.frumforum.com
Civility . . .
One thing I didn't understand at the start of the thread was the ugly comment about Pelosi costing taxpayers "plenty" by flying between the Bay Area and Washington D.C. Being in D.C. to attend to congressional business is what every member of Congress is supposed to do, yet they are also supposed to visit their home districts frequently. Pretty much every member of Congress flies back and forth from their home districts, so it's pointless to blame Pelosi for doing this.
One thing I didn't understand at the start of the thread was the ugly comment about Pelosi costing taxpayers "plenty" by flying between the Bay Area and Washington D.C. Being in D.C. to attend to congressional business is what every member of Congress is supposed to do, yet they are also supposed to visit their home districts frequently. Pretty much every member of Congress flies back and forth from their home districts, so it's pointless to blame Pelosi for doing this.
Flying around
I know here in Canada there's always some tempest in a teapot about some politician or another, even the Prime Minister flying around too much and how much they spend doing it. Well maybe some of the lesser ones should be taking commercial flights but I expect our Prime Minister and the top execs, even though I can't stand to look at him, to be out there and seeing what's going on around the country. Not holed up in their office all the time. It's a pittance really in the big scheme of things and both Canada and the USA are massive in size so of course it's gonna cost some money, that's the way it is.
I know here in Canada there's always some tempest in a teapot about some politician or another, even the Prime Minister flying around too much and how much they spend doing it. Well maybe some of the lesser ones should be taking commercial flights but I expect our Prime Minister and the top execs, even though I can't stand to look at him, to be out there and seeing what's going on around the country. Not holed up in their office all the time. It's a pittance really in the big scheme of things and both Canada and the USA are massive in size so of course it's gonna cost some money, that's the way it is.
randycmaynard
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2009
- Messages
- 655
No you shouldn't be rejoicing and singing in the streets
Count the cost - you're rear, mine and everyone elses is going to be paying out our collective asses for this mess. There will be no savings of $2,500 yearly - if anything it will cost you that much and more if you make any kind of decent money at all. Keep in mind all those numbers from CBO were and still are preliminary it will cost far, far more than most of you will be willing to want to pay for this mess.
No, don't rejoice - hard to dance when a big chunk of you're rear is gone!
Count the cost - you're rear, mine and everyone elses is going to be paying out our collective asses for this mess. There will be no savings of $2,500 yearly - if anything it will cost you that much and more if you make any kind of decent money at all. Keep in mind all those numbers from CBO were and still are preliminary it will cost far, far more than most of you will be willing to want to pay for this mess.
No, don't rejoice - hard to dance when a big chunk of you're rear is gone!
While your dancing in the street
You had better hope to hell you dont break your leg and find out just how bad the ER is right now.. After 5 Billion in cuts just what do you think it will be like? Insurance rates are going to be higher than your house payments/
You had better hope to hell you dont break your leg and find out just how bad the ER is right now.. After 5 Billion in cuts just what do you think it will be like? Insurance rates are going to be higher than your house payments/
Now we can move on
I appreciate all of the hard work that went into passing the Health Care bill. Nancy Pelosi is certainly brilliant and very dogged. Of course the Repubs will try everything to derail this. I just wish we had their mindset when they got us into Iraq, if we had, we probably would not still be there 7 years later!
Anyway, I am thrilled about this and pleased that President Obama can finally move onto other things that need to be done for our country. Health Care coverage is a base to build from, we still need alternate energy sources, and financial reform so that we don't get into such a huge mess again.
I appreciate all of the hard work that went into passing the Health Care bill. Nancy Pelosi is certainly brilliant and very dogged. Of course the Repubs will try everything to derail this. I just wish we had their mindset when they got us into Iraq, if we had, we probably would not still be there 7 years later!
Anyway, I am thrilled about this and pleased that President Obama can finally move onto other things that need to be done for our country. Health Care coverage is a base to build from, we still need alternate energy sources, and financial reform so that we don't get into such a huge mess again.
Ultimately,
both parties lie and are filled with scoundrels.
The difficulty with somehing like this is that when governments destroy the private sector (which they will as that is the goal, having a public option and nothing else) those who are ... undesirable can simply be socially engineered away.
Perhaps as a woman I know who has a few chronic conditions said it most aptly: As soon as someone like me is undesirable, it is off to the gas chambers we go.
And don't say that the demos AND the repubs don't believe the same thing.
both parties lie and are filled with scoundrels.
The difficulty with somehing like this is that when governments destroy the private sector (which they will as that is the goal, having a public option and nothing else) those who are ... undesirable can simply be socially engineered away.
Perhaps as a woman I know who has a few chronic conditions said it most aptly: As soon as someone like me is undesirable, it is off to the gas chambers we go.
And don't say that the demos AND the repubs don't believe the same thing.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
"those who are ... undesirable can simply be socially engineered away."
Is the private sector going to be better in this case? Emphatically NO. You don't have to look far to see insurance companies do anything and everything they can to avoid paying a claim. In fact, insurance companies like to have people stay healthy a long time, many years, pay in huge amount of premiums, and then--when they have even a relatively minor problem come up--immediately drop dead before they cost the company a dime.
It's funny, because I've heard many conservatives whine about how the government will take this or that option away. Reduce the number of people getting this test. Eliminate that treatment. Etc, etc, etc. Yet, this is standard business procedure at any insurance company. But I guess insurance companies are not government, so it must be OK, even if people end up dropping dead right and left.
Is the private sector going to be better in this case? Emphatically NO. You don't have to look far to see insurance companies do anything and everything they can to avoid paying a claim. In fact, insurance companies like to have people stay healthy a long time, many years, pay in huge amount of premiums, and then--when they have even a relatively minor problem come up--immediately drop dead before they cost the company a dime.
It's funny, because I've heard many conservatives whine about how the government will take this or that option away. Reduce the number of people getting this test. Eliminate that treatment. Etc, etc, etc. Yet, this is standard business procedure at any insurance company. But I guess insurance companies are not government, so it must be OK, even if people end up dropping dead right and left.
Pardon the length of this post, but for anyone who's more interested in what this law actually does, here ya go:
____________
Good afternoon,
Since the House of Representatives voted to pass health reform
legislation on Sunday night, the legislative process and its political
impact have been the focus of all the newspapers and cable TV pundits.
Outside of DC, however, many Americans are trying to cut through the
chatter and get to the substance of reform with a simple question: "What
does health insurance reform actually mean for me?" To help, we've put
together some of the key benefits from health insurance reform.
Let's start with how health insurance reform will expand and
strengthen coverage:
a.. This year, children with pre-existing conditions can no longer
be denied health insurance coverage. Once the new health insurance exchanges
begin in the coming years, pre-existing condition discrimination will become
a thing of the past for everyone.
b.. This year, health care plans will allow young people to remain
on their parents' insurance policy up until their 26th birthday.
c.. This year, insurance companies will be banned from dropping
people from coverage when they get sick, and they will be banned from
implementing lifetime caps on coverage. This year, restrictive annual limits
on coverage will be banned for certain plans. Under health insurance reform,
Americans will be ensured access to the care they need.
d.. This year, adults who are uninsured because of pre-existing
conditions will have access to affordable insurance through a temporary
subsidized high-risk pool.
e.. In the next fiscal year, the bill increases funding for
community health centers, so they can treat nearly double the number of
patients over the next five years.
f.. This year, we'll also establish an independent commission to
advise on how best to build the health care workforce and increase the
number of nurses, doctors and other professionals to meet our country's
needs. Going forward, we will provide $1.5 billion in funding to support
the next generation of doctors, nurses and other primary care
practitioners -- on top of a $500 million investment from the American
Recovery and Reinvestment Act.
Health insurance reform will also curb some of the worst insurance
industry practices and strengthen consumer protections:
a.. This year, this bill creates a new, independent appeals process
that ensures consumers in new private plans have access to an effective
process to appeal decisions made by their insurer.
b.. This year, discrimination based on salary will be outlawed. New
group health plans will be prohibited from establishing any eligibility
rules for health care coverage that discriminate in favor of higher-wage
employees.
c.. Beginning this fiscal year, this bill provides funding to states
to help establish offices of health insurance consumer assistance in order
to help individuals in the process of filing complaints or appeals against
insurance companies.
d.. Starting January 1, 2011, insurers in the individual and small
group market will be required to spend 80 percent of their premium dollars
on medical services. Insurers in the large group market will be required to
spend 85 percent of their premium dollars on medical services. Any insurers
who don't meet those thresholds will be required to provide rebates to their
policyholders.
e.. Starting in 2011, this bill helps states require insurance
companies to submit justification for requested premium increases. Any
company with excessive or unjustified premium increases may not be able to
participate in the new health insurance exchanges.
Reform immediately begins to lower health care costs for American
families and small businesses:
a.. This year, small businesses that choose to offer coverage will
begin to receive tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums to help make
employee coverage more affordable.
b.. This year, new private plans will be required to provide free
preventive care: no co-payments and no deductibles for preventive services.
And beginning January 1, 2011, Medicare will do the same.
c.. This year, this bill will provide help for early retirees by
creating a temporary re-insurance program to help offset the costs of
expensive premiums for employers and retirees age 55-64.
d.. This year, this bill starts to close the Medicare Part D 'donut
hole' by providing a $250 rebate to Medicare beneficiaries who hit the gap
in prescription drug coverage. And beginning in 2011, the bill institutes a
50% discount on prescription drugs in the 'donut hole.'
Thank you,
Nancy-Ann DeParle
Director, White House Office of Health Reform
____________
Good afternoon,
Since the House of Representatives voted to pass health reform
legislation on Sunday night, the legislative process and its political
impact have been the focus of all the newspapers and cable TV pundits.
Outside of DC, however, many Americans are trying to cut through the
chatter and get to the substance of reform with a simple question: "What
does health insurance reform actually mean for me?" To help, we've put
together some of the key benefits from health insurance reform.
Let's start with how health insurance reform will expand and
strengthen coverage:
a.. This year, children with pre-existing conditions can no longer
be denied health insurance coverage. Once the new health insurance exchanges
begin in the coming years, pre-existing condition discrimination will become
a thing of the past for everyone.
b.. This year, health care plans will allow young people to remain
on their parents' insurance policy up until their 26th birthday.
c.. This year, insurance companies will be banned from dropping
people from coverage when they get sick, and they will be banned from
implementing lifetime caps on coverage. This year, restrictive annual limits
on coverage will be banned for certain plans. Under health insurance reform,
Americans will be ensured access to the care they need.
d.. This year, adults who are uninsured because of pre-existing
conditions will have access to affordable insurance through a temporary
subsidized high-risk pool.
e.. In the next fiscal year, the bill increases funding for
community health centers, so they can treat nearly double the number of
patients over the next five years.
f.. This year, we'll also establish an independent commission to
advise on how best to build the health care workforce and increase the
number of nurses, doctors and other professionals to meet our country's
needs. Going forward, we will provide $1.5 billion in funding to support
the next generation of doctors, nurses and other primary care
practitioners -- on top of a $500 million investment from the American
Recovery and Reinvestment Act.
Health insurance reform will also curb some of the worst insurance
industry practices and strengthen consumer protections:
a.. This year, this bill creates a new, independent appeals process
that ensures consumers in new private plans have access to an effective
process to appeal decisions made by their insurer.
b.. This year, discrimination based on salary will be outlawed. New
group health plans will be prohibited from establishing any eligibility
rules for health care coverage that discriminate in favor of higher-wage
employees.
c.. Beginning this fiscal year, this bill provides funding to states
to help establish offices of health insurance consumer assistance in order
to help individuals in the process of filing complaints or appeals against
insurance companies.
d.. Starting January 1, 2011, insurers in the individual and small
group market will be required to spend 80 percent of their premium dollars
on medical services. Insurers in the large group market will be required to
spend 85 percent of their premium dollars on medical services. Any insurers
who don't meet those thresholds will be required to provide rebates to their
policyholders.
e.. Starting in 2011, this bill helps states require insurance
companies to submit justification for requested premium increases. Any
company with excessive or unjustified premium increases may not be able to
participate in the new health insurance exchanges.
Reform immediately begins to lower health care costs for American
families and small businesses:
a.. This year, small businesses that choose to offer coverage will
begin to receive tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums to help make
employee coverage more affordable.
b.. This year, new private plans will be required to provide free
preventive care: no co-payments and no deductibles for preventive services.
And beginning January 1, 2011, Medicare will do the same.
c.. This year, this bill will provide help for early retirees by
creating a temporary re-insurance program to help offset the costs of
expensive premiums for employers and retirees age 55-64.
d.. This year, this bill starts to close the Medicare Part D 'donut
hole' by providing a $250 rebate to Medicare beneficiaries who hit the gap
in prescription drug coverage. And beginning in 2011, the bill institutes a
50% discount on prescription drugs in the 'donut hole.'
Thank you,
Nancy-Ann DeParle
Director, White House Office of Health Reform
Some how a certain vocal group in this country has gotten to repeat the mantra "I got mine, screw you" over and over again that it's getting to be part of the fabric of this country. This piece of the fabric needs to be ripped out and burned. We all sink or swim together.
You think the uninsured don't cost you anything? Think again. Apparently this can[t be repeated enough. They cost us more than insuring them. If a low income person comes into the ER with a life threatening condition and is treated for say $50,000, not an unreasonable figure, that cost is past on to all of us. Now if they had basic insurance costing $2,000 a year that is 25 years of coverage! That cost is spread over many, many more people, net cost to each of us, less. Plus, preventive treatment might have stopped the emergency from happening - why is that so hard for many to understand?
Take off your partisan glasses, look at your family and neighbors who are uninsured, what exactly do you want for them? Those against the plan offered NO, Zero, Zip alternatives- no is not an answer. You don't like the plan? Offer a solution, don't just stand there going "Naa NAA NAA, I can't hear you".
You think the uninsured don't cost you anything? Think again. Apparently this can[t be repeated enough. They cost us more than insuring them. If a low income person comes into the ER with a life threatening condition and is treated for say $50,000, not an unreasonable figure, that cost is past on to all of us. Now if they had basic insurance costing $2,000 a year that is 25 years of coverage! That cost is spread over many, many more people, net cost to each of us, less. Plus, preventive treatment might have stopped the emergency from happening - why is that so hard for many to understand?
Take off your partisan glasses, look at your family and neighbors who are uninsured, what exactly do you want for them? Those against the plan offered NO, Zero, Zip alternatives- no is not an answer. You don't like the plan? Offer a solution, don't just stand there going "Naa NAA NAA, I can't hear you".
the difference with private...
....is that you have more choice. And you can self pay.
No, it isn't affordable, but if the difference "I will sacrifice my assets for my health" at least you're alive.
And the not paying for things by private industry is not the equivalent of 'society re-engineering.'
And, as for partisan glasses, everyone has them. They are rampant on this site. There are a few people here like me who thinks that both major political parties in this country do not have the nation's best interest at heart, but most of the people on this site just think that one party is just angels, and the other devils. The reality is both parties are out for their own enrichment, and don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. Anyone who believes otherwise is, in my opinion, deluding themselves.
....is that you have more choice. And you can self pay.
No, it isn't affordable, but if the difference "I will sacrifice my assets for my health" at least you're alive.
And the not paying for things by private industry is not the equivalent of 'society re-engineering.'
And, as for partisan glasses, everyone has them. They are rampant on this site. There are a few people here like me who thinks that both major political parties in this country do not have the nation's best interest at heart, but most of the people on this site just think that one party is just angels, and the other devils. The reality is both parties are out for their own enrichment, and don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. Anyone who believes otherwise is, in my opinion, deluding themselves.
To quote Miss Josephine from the movie Beauty Shop...
"Settle down hussies this ain't no remake of White Mama, Black Mama......I throw the piece card on ya!!!!" I said that to say this......I think it is fine for people to have differences of opinions but PLEASE let us remember to have respect for ourselves and for the other members who post here and keep a civil tounge in our heads....so far this thread has gotten a little heated but not to bad.....but PLEASE lets not let it get any worse than it is right now. PAT COFFEY
"Settle down hussies this ain't no remake of White Mama, Black Mama......I throw the piece card on ya!!!!" I said that to say this......I think it is fine for people to have differences of opinions but PLEASE let us remember to have respect for ourselves and for the other members who post here and keep a civil tounge in our heads....so far this thread has gotten a little heated but not to bad.....but PLEASE lets not let it get any worse than it is right now. PAT COFFEY
to answer Foraloysius
Our indigent children are basically covered in the USA by medicaid, the tricky part is when you have a child with a serious problem say a heart defect. If daddy has good insurance the cost of treating this child will eventually climb to the lifetime max and the insurance lapses. Even if Mom and Dad own a lucrative business the cost of additonal insurance is a fortune. However to qualify for medicaid a hospital social worker will evaluate the assets, business, home, bank accounts. they have to spend until they meet the criteria for medicaid which = darn near broke. The same scenario is possible for an adult 64 years of age, an untimely illness can take everything one has worked for beyond the cap amount on their employer policy, Until they qualify for medicaid. The kicker is at 65 they qualify by age for medicare that covers expenses at 80%. hope this makes sense and helps. alr2903
Our indigent children are basically covered in the USA by medicaid, the tricky part is when you have a child with a serious problem say a heart defect. If daddy has good insurance the cost of treating this child will eventually climb to the lifetime max and the insurance lapses. Even if Mom and Dad own a lucrative business the cost of additonal insurance is a fortune. However to qualify for medicaid a hospital social worker will evaluate the assets, business, home, bank accounts. they have to spend until they meet the criteria for medicaid which = darn near broke. The same scenario is possible for an adult 64 years of age, an untimely illness can take everything one has worked for beyond the cap amount on their employer policy, Until they qualify for medicaid. The kicker is at 65 they qualify by age for medicare that covers expenses at 80%. hope this makes sense and helps. alr2903
for/FOR
not to drone on forever but our policies have Max out of pocket per year, up until a lifetime cap. If your lucky you would retire at 65, a hospital bill would be paid at 80%, then if you have an insurance say from a pension they pay 80% of the 20% medicare did not pay. There are other payment schemes, medicaid spend down. Also in the usa station has it's merits, some not all political figures, and their families end up with their final balance, quote written off. A hospital in a politicians district can solve many problems and may be a leading reason, some of our politicians are unaware of runaway costs, but that's my opinion alr2903
not to drone on forever but our policies have Max out of pocket per year, up until a lifetime cap. If your lucky you would retire at 65, a hospital bill would be paid at 80%, then if you have an insurance say from a pension they pay 80% of the 20% medicare did not pay. There are other payment schemes, medicaid spend down. Also in the usa station has it's merits, some not all political figures, and their families end up with their final balance, quote written off. A hospital in a politicians district can solve many problems and may be a leading reason, some of our politicians are unaware of runaway costs, but that's my opinion alr2903
If members of congress get a fart sideways they can be taken to the Office of the Attending Physician in the Capitol Building and if more care is needed, they can be taken by ambulance or helicopter to Bethesda Naval Hospital. Rarely do they have to deal with worries about medical bills, not that they don't have good insurance which is why it seems so ironic that people with some of the best health insurance are telling the nation that less fortunate people don't merit health insurance protection. It amazes me how people so quick to say that certain types of people are damned for all eternity can't see the evil in their own actions for which they are going to have to answer.
and of course, the converse...
...that these people who get this kind of treatment devise EVERYTHING for the American people but it does not apply to them.
Social security? No, they have their own retirement plan.
Medical care? No, they have their own.
Secure shelters for NBC attack? Yeah they have 'em, civilians don't.
Etc.
...that these people who get this kind of treatment devise EVERYTHING for the American people but it does not apply to them.
Social security? No, they have their own retirement plan.
Medical care? No, they have their own.
Secure shelters for NBC attack? Yeah they have 'em, civilians don't.
Etc.
