I have never heard someone get on TV and

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"Free medical care for serious problems"

I am a cancer survivor who cannot get insurance and I say it is about time!

To the person that said, "anyone can walk into any county health clinic in the U.S. and receive free medical care for serious problems", you are wrong.

Yes I received free medical care after I was dropped by my insurance company, after I got rid of all of my assets, after I spent over 70k of my own money making me nearly destitute.

Yeah, anybody with serious medical conditions can get free health care...go on and believe in your little fairytales if you wish...those of us who have been there know better.
 
The government forcing people to pay for a service against their will is WRONG... Are they going to start mandating what groceries we must by each week next and what car we must drive? Are they going to tell us that we must all have a cell phone? Are they going to put bar codes on our hands? If this was such a good thing, why did they have to resort to "coercing" people that were dead set against it to change their minds?
 
I am STILL waiting

For someone to explain how taking away 350 billion dollars from hospitals is a GOOD THING???
 
Wow . . .

I am amazed at the amount of vitriol expressed here. Given the complexity of the bill, nobody will agree with it 100%, but that's no excuse for seeing only the negative aspects of it.

Our current for-profit, insurance company lead healthcare system is the most expensive in the world, even though the insurance companies have tried for years to contain costs. Obviously from the standpoint of cost efficiency the current system doesn't work very well. As more people can't afford health insurance due to rising premiums, the total percentage of those with health insurance declines. This reduces the amount of income earned by the insurance companies, and they must raise rates to compensate. That causes more people to drop their policies, and a vicious circle starts. Anthem Blue Cross recently applied to raise rates on many individual policyholders in California by as much as 39%, and at the same time said they were going to be raising rates twice a year instead of once. Once upon a time, a large number of the people in this nation worked for large industries who have the clout to negotiate with insurance companies, but that time is past as we've increasingly become a nation of small businesses that do not have the ability to do this.

The big problem with allowing people to be uninsured is that they still get sick or have accidents, and the "free" healthcare that many of the uninsured receive isn't remotely free. The community pays for it, and it's often extremely expensive because too much of this healthcare occurs in emergency rooms since they can't turn anyone away. For this reason many hospitals have closed their emergency rooms, especially those in poorer neighborhoods. This is bad news not only for people in those areas, but also for well-insured individuals who might have the bad luck to have an accident in an area underserved by emergency facilities.

And what of the many people today who have been priced out of insurance due to a pre-exisitng condition? Unfortunately, the situation that now exists for too many is 1)become ill for no fault of their own 2)be unable to continue working at their job because of their illness 3)lose insurance coverage as a result of the job loss 4)exhaust their savings paying for health care as their illness is now a reason to label them uninsurable. Remember too that many insurance companies have negotiated discount rates with their preferred healthcare providers, and if you don't have insurance you'll pay more for everything.

As was noted above by Bajaespuma, plenty of professionals in the health care industry have known for decades that something would eventually need to be done to ensure that all citizens have access to good health care. Playing ostrich and ignoring the problem isn't going to fix it - this bill is at least a start.
 
Ken, you obviously misunderstood my point. Here in the U.S., along with all other civilized countries, we don't allow people to simply drop dead on our streets. Those who have serious medical problems (I mean emergencies) receive medical treatment regardless of their net worth or whether they carry insurance, and the cost of this treatment is shared by everyone. So our health care system, in fact every health care system I've ever heard of, has been basically socialized.

As for the "I'm healthy, why should I be forced to carry health insurance" people, they were the main problem with our former system. Because when these people step on a rusty nail, get into auto accidents, have a heart attack or come down with cancer, again we're back to the question of who pays for this medical treatment.

There's no doubt in my mind that within 20 years we're going to look back on our former health care system with enormous amounts of embarrassment and disgust. What's best for patients is rarely what's best for the shareholders of Big Insurance and Big Pharma. This current bill is only half the solution, but it was the tougher half to get through Congress. Reid has promised a separate debate and vote on a public option (hopefully a single-payer system). This will be the final blow to our fundamentally immoral, profit-based "health care" system.
 
I REALLY don’t understand you people.

It’s as if you are fighting desperately for some God-given right to be fleeced by a coven of corporations that has so clearly (only to thinkers, it seems) declared war on the "not-super rich". Although I have to admit, when I watch TV it’s becoming more and more apparent that the networks, which were forthright in exposing corruption in the Sixties and Seventies, have been co-opted in recent decades to keep the masses distracted with bread and circuses while the robber barons whose business is to betray this country are relieving us of the foolish burdens of savings and well-being.

I guess the idea is that if we have Miley Cyrus, Jessica Simpson and an SUV we don’t need our money or our health. I’ve always maintained that nothing is as valuable to the Republicans as the cooperative stupidity of its constituency.

I have NO DOUBT that there will be big problems with any government-run health system but this is the first important step towards the inevitability of socialized medicine. Face it, it works in modern civilized countries. Health care is a right, not a luxury.

I wish all of you freedom from harm and sickness, no exceptions. But don't drag the rest of us down with you if you insist on being victims.

If government-run health care is so opprobrious to you, then write big checks to Blue-Cross/Blue Shield every month and DO NOT say a word when you are denied coverage for a serious illness because of a "preexisting condition": ignorance.
 
Here in the U.S., along with all other civilized countries,

Wanna bet! people are dying in waiting rooms everyday. And yes people are Dying in the street as hospitals refuse to take them.Read your newspaper! About the hundreds that try to get medical care and cannot are turned away.. I have seen it first hand here. I had a worker in this very plant that was taken to the hospital and was told if she could not put up a 250o.oo deposit or produce a insurance card she would have to leave, After a few mins of heated dissucssion security was called and she was taken to the curb. It happens here EVERY DAY>
 
Yeah, the government has done such a fine job for veterans health care. Medicare/Medicaid is so well run they are quickly heading to bankruptcy, and this bill is cutting services. Nice. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, another failed government financial program. U.S. Mail can barely deliver a letter. And we want more government involvement in health insurance? With the beloved IRS in charge?

The problem here is that this is an insurance scam. There is nothing here to lower the cost of doing medicine for any medical care providers. This is all about insurance and insurance companies.

No one has the right to someone else's time, money, service or talent. If they want to give it freely, then no problem. This is what it means to be in America. The government gets out of your way and the private sector takes care of it. And it does, and it does quite well.

What does it really cost you to see a doctor? Will your doctor give you a discount if you pay cash? Why not shop for your doctor instead of just picking a name off an "approved" list? Same with labs, same with drugs. It has been proven several times that if you shop drug stores for prices on prescription medicines, you can save quite a bit of money.

One of a doctor's biggest expense is malpractice insurance (there is that pesky insurance company again). Tort reform and limit to lawsuits would lower this cost significantly.

The government already tried to raise the age limit for mammograms for women. Let's see what they do with late presenting cancers, like pancreatic. Let see what they do with T-cell counts and HIV meds.

Let's see how many of our doctors retire early or leave the practice altogether. Let's see how the nurses unions revolt against working too many hours with too many patients. More government take over? Now comes rationing. "Oh that won't happen". Like hell...

I bet all in all there is only about 100 pages in that bill that actually help people. That is no reason to approve the other 2600 pages of crappy legislating. And then having to reconcile this over the next months/years? They all need to be voted out. We have put the ignorant, power-hungry fools in there, and this is what we get.
 
Keep dancing in the street

The bill is estimated to cost $940 billion over a decade. higher taxes and fees and billions of dollars in Medicare payment cuts to providers, From msn..
 
Lee.....

You have to know (I think you do) that it will cost far more than the $940 billion being thrown around..... that is a preliminary number - it will cost far, far, far more than anyone could ever imagine! National sales tax coming down the way before too long.

BTW folks.... Amnesty will be the next biggie coming down the pike and it will be handled just like this health care thing -it will be shoved down our throats in like manner! It's coming so get ready!
 
Wow! I wish I was living in your America!

No one has the right to someone else's time, money, service or talent. If they want to give it freely, then no problem. This is what it means to be in America. The government gets out of your way and the private sector takes care of it. And it does, and it does quite well.

In My America, I can't get insurance I can afford. As I stated the last time I checked my policy premium would be $1600/mo. Why? Because I have pre Barret's esophagus. This is a condition when it advances to Barret's become pre-cancerous. So I'm pre that stage and with meds and tests that's where I"ll stay. But I can't get the coverage to pay for the needed testing. My Doc, gave me meds for over a decade but now he can't get then to give away so I'm buying less effective OTC Prilosec. That sure is Big Business taking care of problems.

I'm fine with free enterprise in many cases, but when it comes to public health, safety and such in my book you sure as hell better not be making a buck off my suffering. You want to make a better widget, go for it, but you better make sure it's safe, and I do not trust any corporation to look out for my good, only their bottom line - so I want over-site. The ONLY way I'll get that over-site is via the Govt. I can't go out and hire inspectors or labs to test products. These are things Govt. can and should do and even if they have problems doing it it's better than nothing. I think part of the problem with the Govt. is that some people WANT it to fail so they can privatize everything, then we can all be raped by big business.
 
To all

I AM NOT saying that we DONT need it WE DO I know first hand.. We need anything that will keep the insurance companies from rapeing us all. But taking away money from hospitals and healthcare providers and expecting us to do more is dummer than stupid..
 
why shouldn't it be possible in the USA?

Beacuse the Gov. won't leave things ALONE! And seems to think their fingers must be up everyones ass.
 
It may not be perfect, but at least its a step in the right direction.

The comments racing around here don't seem to be dissimiliar to the campaign run by various groups to discriminate against gays. If we let gays adopt, it'll be the end of the family unit as we know it, vs if we give everyone health cover its the end of the world.

Universal health care is never going to be perfect, but it works pretty well in almost all of the world, excluding the US. In Australia, approximately 3% of your income goes into the Medicare levy (A Tax) and this pays for a proportion of the Universal health care. It still isnt free to see a GP, but it is to go to hospital, you only pay up to $32 per script and should you have a pre-existing illness you still have coverage.

Medicare has been run by the Australian Tax Office since the beginning in the 70's and it simplifies matters really, they collect the medicare levy and these days once you spend more than $900/$1400 as a single/couple on health care you get more money back in your tax return.

Yes the public system has issues, there are waiting lists for elective surgery and it has other problems, but it is highly unusual for someone to die whilst waiting for treatment and nobody ever dies because they are trying to save to afford a proceedure.

If you want to go around the public system, you then have the choice to purchase Private cover which entitles you to private hospitals and doctors of your choice within much shorter time frames. Our health insurers cannot discriminate against existing conditions, you just have to pay 12 months of premiums before you can claim against an existing issue. Even the Health insurance price increases are fixed by the Government. This years increase is 6%, but thats still only $130 per month for almost top level hospital cover and top level extras.

My mum is on a low income and has been diabetic for 55years, she struggles to pay for her private health cover, but with a pre-existing condition, she pays the same as I do despite the fact she is 30 years older and is now receiving regular treatment for the side effects of diabetes and old age. Tell me how that is a bad thing? All the money that she spends on diabetic equipment, Physio's, hand surgeons, endocrinologists, most is part paid by Heath insurance and she gets a proportion back of the rest come tax return time. Death would be her only alternative without that support from the Govt. And before anyone suggests she should work harder, her only crime was getting married at 19 and having kids and then getting divorced in her mid 40's after 25 years as a housewife. She works fulltime, but $40K only goes so far

People seems to be getting very excited about too Much government regulation, it seems to have worked here very well for the last 35 years.
 
Nobody likes big government, but . . .

Who else is going to take on the insurance industry and trial lawyers? As Peter pointed out, the huge costs of lawsuits and malpractice insurance are an important part of our out of control costs. So far nobody has been able to do much at all about this situation and it continues to get worse and worse. Having the government take a part in this is a last resort, but there's literally no one else who has the power to do it.
 
Hi brisnat,

You were probably too young at the time to remember, but there was a brief period during the early 1980s when the Fraser government dismantled Medibank and gave us a completely private health insurance system. The only difference, insurance companies couldn't discriminate or drop their clients for chronic and pre-existing conditions. The largest insurance companies were governemtn backed as well.

Now, in regards to medication scripts only costing $32 per item, let us clarify a couple of points. Firstly, for medicines to only cost $32 they have to be listed under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. There are a lot of medicines, particularly new ones, that are not listed under that scheme and they can cost an absolute fortune. Even if all the meds one requires are covered by the PBS, requiring several medications under the same script can still make it very expensive. If you are a pensioner or on some kind of social security benefit, with a health care card entitlement, the cost of each medication comes to only $5. Though, for those who do not qualify for a health care card there is little financial relief. Believe it or not, but there are lots of working people who go without essential meds, because they can't afford them.

On a different note, do you remember the Edelsten medical centers that popped up everywhere during the 1980s? Each one came with chandeliers, grand pianos, plush carpet, plush lounge chairs and sofas, big screen televisions and they were supposed to be state of the art in every respect. Only poor Dr Edelsten ended up in jail for larceny.

I've noticed that fewer medical centers now bulk-bill for GP consults. The one that I frequent charges $30 per visit, unless one is a pensioner or under 16. The biggest benefit is that the waiting room doesn't get quite as busy anymore and I don't have to wait so long to see my doctor.

regards

Olav
 
Amazing article today on Huffpo:

"We watched Obama master the mechanics of legislative politics, cobbling together a majority one vote at a time. And we observed the Republican right reduced to sputtering frustration.

What a splendid shift from the Obama who less than a month ago went imploringly to reason with the House Republican Caucus.

Until very recently, the press treated this battle as a symmetrical stand-off. Now, with the president at last regaining control of the narrative, the Republicans are revealed as pure obstructionists. As the bill takes effect and citizens actually experience benefits (and as Obama said, "Lo and behold, nobody is pulling the plug on Grandma,") the Republicans will lose both as the party of No, and as a party that tried and failed to block a beneficial reform that citizens will come to value.

It has taken more than fourteen months for Obama to vindicate as president the leadership potential that we saw on the campaign trail; fourteen months to give up on the fantasy of bipartisanship; fourteen months to start truly inspiring ordinary people as he did as a candidate.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi deserves to share this moment. She never gave up on this legislation, and she kept after Obama and his aides to be tougher, smarter, and unapologetically partisan. She as much as Obama did the hard work of pulling together a majority, and kept Obama from caving in to Rahm Emanuel's advice to seek a puny bill that the Republicans might support.

The media is notorious for exaggerating the ups and downs of a president. A few weeks ago, Obama and health reform were doomed and Obama was not up to the job. In the coming days, we will see a jubilant Obama on the cover of newsmagazines. He will be lionized as a giant-killer. His approval ratings will rise, both because more Americans are paying attention to the beneficial features of the bill as opposed to the Republican caricatures and because Americans love a winner."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/defining-moment_b_507678.html
 
"One of a doctor's biggest expense is malpractice insurance (there is that pesky insurance company again). Tort reform and limit to lawsuits would lower this cost significantly."

That is one of the bigger issues regarding health care costs that needs to be dealt with. But many, if not most, politicians are lawyers and will protect their own. Lawsuits affect not only malpractice insurance costs, but equipment costs, drug costs, etc. Reigning in the frivolous lawsuits, along with other reforms, will help to bring down some of the high costs of health care.
 
Huffington is alway overly exaggerated.......

They are so far left they can't see right. No, somebody has to say no so on with the show Repbulicans...... not obstructionest - just simply right in this case. This is a travesty and Obama is not God. I long ago washed my hands of this guy and you will not ever see me refer to him as anything other than Obama or Mr. Obama.... never president.
 
This guy is FUNNY. Did you read his 3/18 entry (Obama on Fox "News"(or Python Eats Kangaroo)? Hysterical!
 
"1) Any 2700+ page bill is bad legislating by bad legislators."

Such bills that include altering or expanding existing legislation are typically long because they must quote the existing law, with strikeouts and such to indicate where the changes go. Most of the bill, as a result, is repetition of existing law.

"2) 30M uninsured people now being forced to buy insurance -- being forced to increase insurance profits by the government."

They are not forced to buy health insurance. They can opt instead to pay a relatively small fine (which is indexed to income). They are also free to cut off their noses to spite their faces, something the Teabaggers seem to excel at.

"3) Nothing in here to help medical providers to lower cost.

I said it months ago, I'll say it again: This is nothing more than a government enforced insurance scam.

And it is going to be enforced by the IRS and 4 new bureaucracies.

Not to mention it is probably unconstitutional. Bring on the law suits.

Here comes a national sales tax to pay for all this.

Can't wait for November... "

Nobody is talking about a national sales tax, period. Plus, as I recall, Obama and the Dems wanted to add a government run "public option" to force the private insurance companies to offer competitive rates along with real policies (not the ridiculous highly limited policies they are trying to pass off as decent coverage). But the conservatives and the Republicans (in which company you apparently belong) waged a fierce and unrelenting campaign AGAINST the public option. So please don't come whining now about how the bill rewards private insurance companies. It's what you WANTED, after all.
 
See..... it's worked out just fine!

This thread has been rather civil I think - I mean I started it off equating Nancy Pelosi to a witch.... even the CA folks didn't beat on me too bad - they just figure I'm a poor misguided southern type that has spent too long in the mountains - LOL! No, I'm not the brighest bulb in the box but not the dark one either so thanks for being civil about things - do like the passion on both sides though.

Yes, of course the system needs to be worked on I just don't know that complete government control is the answer to all the problems we face in this area. One thing I didn't count on is a president hell bent on sticking the finger of government into just about every aspect of life along with a willing group of like minded senators and representatives. Federal goverment needs to remain very limited per the original intent of the founders providing for the common defense of the country (good strong military) etc and leave the rest of governing the people to the "many states" and local goverment.
 

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