Starting at 13:42, I am starting to like this new concept 
I just fell in love with impellar washers!
- Thread starter Chetlaham
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Pretty much the same as this Samsung - which has a Load Size selector(?). I never knew Samsung USA had top loaders that would allow you to select a load size.
I love my new Maytag MVC415EW. It has an agipeller and functions pretty much just like the one in the first video. I've never owned an automatic TL that cleaned better. I use the Powerwash and Deepwater wash cycles the most and Bulky for large articles like flannel sheets, blankets, bedspreads, comforters and pillows. Every load is rinsed thoroughly and I've never used the extra rinse, its not necessary. I really like the presoak option for whites. The longest cycle time I've ever had so far is 60 mins. I'm sold on this design.
Eddie
Eddie
lotsosudz
Well-known member
OPINIONS
I know that everybody has their own opinions on impeller washers.The deep water feature, seems to me, the only usable cycle on this format of washer I just do not see how the lower water level cycles, that bounce your clothes on top of the impeller cleans anything. I'm sure i'm wrong but I'm old school.
I know that everybody has their own opinions on impeller washers.The deep water feature, seems to me, the only usable cycle on this format of washer I just do not see how the lower water level cycles, that bounce your clothes on top of the impeller cleans anything. I'm sure i'm wrong but I'm old school.
Only useable cycle
I would agree. I am going to be honest {fantasy time
}, if they came out with a model with an infinite position pressure switch, all deep fill cycles (Heavy, Normal, Light, Delicate, Hand-wash, rinse, spin and drain) with temp switch I would buy one in a heart beat just for the delight. And a BOL Galaxy version of this would be so satisfying.
I would agree. I am going to be honest {fantasy time
}, if they came out with a model with an infinite position pressure switch, all deep fill cycles (Heavy, Normal, Light, Delicate, Hand-wash, rinse, spin and drain) with temp switch I would buy one in a heart beat just for the delight. And a BOL Galaxy version of this would be so satisfying.I don't mind "low water wash" but Whirlpool seems to go too far with it. I have a 2013 Ge top loader, it fills about halfway on the super setting and washes well on all cycles, but filling with just a few inches of water ala the new whirlpool stuff is not good. Filling to the top also appears to lessen the wash action.
I am starting to like this new concept
Why? Just because it fills all the way with water?
OK so it fills all the way with water, AND? Do you think your clothes will get clean in a machine like this with a full tub of water? The only thing happening in these videos is it's swishing or swirling the garments around. Sure it's great if you have delicate items that are lightly soiled, but real world soil... I'm sorry I don't see how anything would get clean. It's just a waist of water unless you're washing large, bulky items.
Kevin
Kevin
Why? Just because it fills all the way with water?
OK so it fills all the way with water, AND? Do you think your clothes will get clean in a machine like this with a full tub of water? The only thing happening in these videos is it's swishing or swirling the garments around. Sure it's great if you have delicate items that are lightly soiled, but real world soil... I'm sorry I don't see how anything would get clean. It's just a waist of water unless you're washing large, bulky items.
Kevin
Kevin
Hi guys and gals. First time posting in years, although I lurk from time to time.
I had the previous generation of these belt drive HE washers. Maytag MVW700X or some such model I can't remember now. When it worked it cleaned very well, especially my white socks seemed to be cleaner on the bottoms. The control panel electronics started malfunctioning soon after I bought it.
It was hit or miss on certain cycles. The powerwash cycle started to malfunction and it would fill then pause and then drain out the water. It started to do this on the normal cycle too and instead of fixing it I went and bought a SQ set in 2013 and the rest they say is history.
Only got 2 years out of that machine. I still like the impeller method of washing but certain deep water cycles are useless unless washing delicate things. The fins are too shallow to make toroidal currents as seen in the video.
These machine clean best when the height of the water is just above the impeller by an inch or two. That's what I noticed in the 2 years I used mine.
I had the previous generation of these belt drive HE washers. Maytag MVW700X or some such model I can't remember now. When it worked it cleaned very well, especially my white socks seemed to be cleaner on the bottoms. The control panel electronics started malfunctioning soon after I bought it.
It was hit or miss on certain cycles. The powerwash cycle started to malfunction and it would fill then pause and then drain out the water. It started to do this on the normal cycle too and instead of fixing it I went and bought a SQ set in 2013 and the rest they say is history.
Only got 2 years out of that machine. I still like the impeller method of washing but certain deep water cycles are useless unless washing delicate things. The fins are too shallow to make toroidal currents as seen in the video.
These machine clean best when the height of the water is just above the impeller by an inch or two. That's what I noticed in the 2 years I used mine.
Calypso is better. ;-)
If I think about older conventional impeller machines, what they did is that they ran the impeller in one direction for a long period of time, creating a kind of a "whirlpool" so that the clothes would "fly" through the water.
(Some machines like older Japanese impeller machines would run the impeller for the better part of what.. 10 seconds at a time in each direction?)
I think that's probably the biggest weakness of these machines, is that with a high water level, the impeller doesn't run long enough in one direction, so this "whirlpool" never starts and moves the clothes through the water.
Unless I'm missing something here?
(Some machines like older Japanese impeller machines would run the impeller for the better part of what.. 10 seconds at a time in each direction?)
I think that's probably the biggest weakness of these machines, is that with a high water level, the impeller doesn't run long enough in one direction, so this "whirlpool" never starts and moves the clothes through the water.
Unless I'm missing something here?
I agree Bud
These top load HE impeller machines are designed to operate with low water levels and "grind" the garments clean. The problem is when the tub fills with water, they didn't change the wash profile/program, or it changes very little if they did.
Yes the impeller on the older machines (twin tubs, etc) ran a longer duration before reversing direction, but also turn at a much higher rpm. Yes I'm sure they could spin the impeller faster and for a longer time, but with a tub full of water there would be a big risk of water sloshing, splashing and getting up and over the top of the tub. Obviously not a good thing.
Yes, the Calypso is a MUCH better washer than these things.
These top load HE impeller machines are designed to operate with low water levels and "grind" the garments clean. The problem is when the tub fills with water, they didn't change the wash profile/program, or it changes very little if they did.
Yes the impeller on the older machines (twin tubs, etc) ran a longer duration before reversing direction, but also turn at a much higher rpm. Yes I'm sure they could spin the impeller faster and for a longer time, but with a tub full of water there would be a big risk of water sloshing, splashing and getting up and over the top of the tub. Obviously not a good thing.
Yes, the Calypso is a MUCH better washer than these things.
I've noticed that the guy making those videos always selects a small load of laundry and a high water level. This exaggerates the wash action. I'd really like to see more realistic selections on these machines to see how they do in everyday use... most people wait to wash larger loads and don't use a full tub of water if they don't have to.
whitetub
Well-known member
I would like to see a dirty load, being washed in the regular cycle.
And see the before and after picture. Like those old Tide commercials.
And see the before and after picture. Like those old Tide commercials.
Even though the new upper end whirlpools and maytags have the DD BPM motors they do not seem to perform as well as the older F&P design they were using before the redesign.
Are the newer DD machines also connected to a gearbox ? They sure sound like the MVW belt driven machines. Unless they change the wash profile on the bulky settings that use more water i will keep clear of them. They simply do not seem to have the same torque as the f&p based washers. Those machines moved the clothes very well on the deep water cycles.
Are the newer DD machines also connected to a gearbox ? They sure sound like the MVW belt driven machines. Unless they change the wash profile on the bulky settings that use more water i will keep clear of them. They simply do not seem to have the same torque as the f&p based washers. Those machines moved the clothes very well on the deep water cycles.
granted these don't compare to a Calypso....
this is a newer version, but I have a 2010 Cabrio, and it works very well, once you get past the mental part of lower water levels.....it is a concentrated detergent solution, and adds more water as it goes along.....
all I can tell you, the first wash water drain is filthy, there is usually 2 spins sprays for the rinse, the last draining is clear, and the clothes are clean.....you can't argue with those results....don't knock it until you get a chance to play with one...
kudos to JoeyPete for the vids........
this is a newer version, but I have a 2010 Cabrio, and it works very well, once you get past the mental part of lower water levels.....it is a concentrated detergent solution, and adds more water as it goes along.....
all I can tell you, the first wash water drain is filthy, there is usually 2 spins sprays for the rinse, the last draining is clear, and the clothes are clean.....you can't argue with those results....don't knock it until you get a chance to play with one...
kudos to JoeyPete for the vids........
Thanks Martin for posting Joeypete's excellent video's, and thanks Joeypete.
I haven't managed to rig my Maytag to watch with the lid open. But I have opened the lid from time to time to take a look and this is the level of water I've seen on the Deepwater cycle and the video of the white cycle appoximates the Powerwash cycle in the level of water. And judging from what I've noticed as to movement of garments, my Maytag does about the same.
The LG FL that I had before this never used as much water as the Powerwash. on the MT does. If I have a full to the top mixed load of towels and other garments I use the Deepwater cycle. It only fills to cover the fully saturated load with about 1" to 2" of extra water and seems to be fully adequate. The Bulky cycle does fill to the top if necessary, and does a great job on extra large articles.
I agree with Martin, you need to play around with one to really know how they perform.
Where the LG excelled was in extraction, the MT doesn't spin as fast. But this hasn't been a problem.
It would be a boring world if we all liked the same things.
Eddie
I haven't managed to rig my Maytag to watch with the lid open. But I have opened the lid from time to time to take a look and this is the level of water I've seen on the Deepwater cycle and the video of the white cycle appoximates the Powerwash cycle in the level of water. And judging from what I've noticed as to movement of garments, my Maytag does about the same.
The LG FL that I had before this never used as much water as the Powerwash. on the MT does. If I have a full to the top mixed load of towels and other garments I use the Deepwater cycle. It only fills to cover the fully saturated load with about 1" to 2" of extra water and seems to be fully adequate. The Bulky cycle does fill to the top if necessary, and does a great job on extra large articles.
I agree with Martin, you need to play around with one to really know how they perform.
Where the LG excelled was in extraction, the MT doesn't spin as fast. But this hasn't been a problem.
It would be a boring world if we all liked the same things.
Eddie
mine is a 2010, very close to this one of Gansky's.....
have found this one to be the best at a water to clothes adjustment for auto sensing, it wont start agitating until there is enough water to make the tub float...like it or not, it is effective...
I did remove the restrictor on the hot water side, warm is warm, and hot is only dubbed down about 10 degrees from my water heater setting....it fills faster too...
have found this one to be the best at a water to clothes adjustment for auto sensing, it wont start agitating until there is enough water to make the tub float...like it or not, it is effective...
I did remove the restrictor on the hot water side, warm is warm, and hot is only dubbed down about 10 degrees from my water heater setting....it fills faster too...
@Kevin
I hear you, but do you have anything to back up your claims? Maytag manuals from the 70s specifically said it was water moving through the garments that cleaned clothes. There are parts of the world that used (and still use) impellars and in so far appear to be doing well. A full tub of water gets rid of the excessive wear and tear (IMO) from the impeller and gives more room for loading. Over all, if this design was tweaked just a tad on deep water level I think it would give really good results with added tub volume.
I hear you, but do you have anything to back up your claims? Maytag manuals from the 70s specifically said it was water moving through the garments that cleaned clothes. There are parts of the world that used (and still use) impellars and in so far appear to be doing well. A full tub of water gets rid of the excessive wear and tear (IMO) from the impeller and gives more room for loading. Over all, if this design was tweaked just a tad on deep water level I think it would give really good results with added tub volume.
Anything to back up my claims?
Yeah, watch the two videos you posted at the beginning of the thread.
Yeah, watch the two videos you posted at the beginning of the thread.
I washed a couple 30" x 46" rubber-backed rugs (separately) in my Calypso a couple days ago. Used the Woolens cycle for minimal nutation and more recirculation-shower time. Sometimes use the Bulky cycle which has some moderate-speed nutation. I place them in the drum with the nap facing upwards and the perimeter folded under. It works very nicely. Be interesting to see how an impeller machine handles such items, on both a low-water cycle and a deep-fill cycle.
I watched them, and in so far they do not provide written proof that water movement does not clean as well as scrubbing. Deep water impellars are still big in Japan.
Impellars with more water
Here are some vids of modern impellers:
Here are some vids of modern impellers:
Deep water impeller machines are still popular in a lot of countries. Often they are used for cold water washing with special detergent for that. You don't need much power, just a lot of water to use them.
When I bought my LG Turbodrum I had hoped it would do a good job, but alas it was a bit of a disappointment. I couldn't get my whites as clean in a Turbodrum as I did in one of my European frontloaders.
When I bought my LG Turbodrum I had hoped it would do a good job, but alas it was a bit of a disappointment. I couldn't get my whites as clean in a Turbodrum as I did in one of my European frontloaders.
Impellars in other countries
While they tend to fill less than our top loads, they usually fill more than our impellers. I know you guys will call this a worst case, but seriously, this should not be happening:
While they tend to fill less than our top loads, they usually fill more than our impellers. I know you guys will call this a worst case, but seriously, this should not be happening:
earthling177
Well-known member
Those impeller washers are very different from the one the guy was demoing earlier in the thread.
If you just want to play with one to see what they're like, some fully automatic washers with impellers cost about $500 (although some on sale go for $250), but you could have a twin-tub (Panda, Haier, Giantex, Danby etc), for about $150, some for as little as $98.
You can get an impeller washer with no spin basket for less than $100 if you shop around.
Then there are all the people on craigslist and eBay that got tired of such things when they moved out of the apartments that forced them to have one, those can be even cheaper.
Once you play with one, you'll see that Kevin is right -- the action and cycles in HE impeller machines (particularly cycle length) are optimized for low water. High water level will need to extend the wash length to get the same results.
Also, HE impellers often take several minutes just to decide how much water and what rhythm and cycle length it will use. The impeller washers you list typically can start causing twisting and fabric damage on any cycle longer than 10-15 minutes -- they are optimized for cycle speed, not energy savings or fabric wear.
Having used all but the new HE impeller machines, I'd say that the cleanest clothes I've got came from frontloaders with high-temp heaters (95C/205F), then frontloaders with heaters, then toploaders with agitators or impellers.
The impeller washers are fun to watch, and, at the cost of high fabric wear, they can get the clothes very clean if you let it wash for 20 minutes or more.
But at the end of the day, for me (your mileage might vary), most of the time I don't have time to watch the washer and dial-push it until it does clean and rinse as well as I want, so my choice is still to buy the best front loader I can have at the time.
Others should do what makes them happy.
Cheers,
-- Paulo.
If you just want to play with one to see what they're like, some fully automatic washers with impellers cost about $500 (although some on sale go for $250), but you could have a twin-tub (Panda, Haier, Giantex, Danby etc), for about $150, some for as little as $98.
You can get an impeller washer with no spin basket for less than $100 if you shop around.
Then there are all the people on craigslist and eBay that got tired of such things when they moved out of the apartments that forced them to have one, those can be even cheaper.
Once you play with one, you'll see that Kevin is right -- the action and cycles in HE impeller machines (particularly cycle length) are optimized for low water. High water level will need to extend the wash length to get the same results.
Also, HE impellers often take several minutes just to decide how much water and what rhythm and cycle length it will use. The impeller washers you list typically can start causing twisting and fabric damage on any cycle longer than 10-15 minutes -- they are optimized for cycle speed, not energy savings or fabric wear.
Having used all but the new HE impeller machines, I'd say that the cleanest clothes I've got came from frontloaders with high-temp heaters (95C/205F), then frontloaders with heaters, then toploaders with agitators or impellers.
The impeller washers are fun to watch, and, at the cost of high fabric wear, they can get the clothes very clean if you let it wash for 20 minutes or more.
But at the end of the day, for me (your mileage might vary), most of the time I don't have time to watch the washer and dial-push it until it does clean and rinse as well as I want, so my choice is still to buy the best front loader I can have at the time.
Others should do what makes them happy.
Cheers,
-- Paulo.
uncledave
Well-known member
Who makes that top loader with a horizontal axis like that?
I know of the staber, and an older Miele, but nothing like what you are showing in that pict..
You mention Calypso but thats not like the Calypso's Ive seen.
Thanks....
Uncle Dave
I know of the staber, and an older Miele, but nothing like what you are showing in that pict..
You mention Calypso but thats not like the Calypso's Ive seen.
Thanks....
Uncle Dave
High fabric wear
But not with deep fills, correct?
But not with deep fills, correct?
earthling177
Well-known member
Fabric wear with those Asian-style impeller washers is very high, higher than a traditional toploader with agitator, despite all the water they use.
You can't really use those impeller machines, at the speed and rhythm they run the impeller, with low water. If you try, you are likely to stall the motor, or, at best, cause water to splash out of the tub.
There's a bit of a learning curve when you get used to how much clothes (and what kind) you can load them with and how much water to use.
I have a Panda XPB45 (4.5 kg/10lbs) twin-tub that I got from Amazon about a year or two ago to play with.
A friend of mine came to use my laundry (they live in an apartment building with a sketchy laundry room, coin-operated). They usually just use my frontloaders. This time the husband was curious to see what a twin-tub was like, 'cuz his granny complained about how much more work it was before automatics showed up.
He put a load of shirts in the machine, we filled the tub with the highest possible water level (it's completely manual, except for the timers). He washed for only 10 minutes or so. Shirts got as clean as the toploaders in a laundromat, but not as clean as they'd get in a domestic toploader or if we ran the machine for 15 minutes (max time on timer).
The shirts got rinsed and extracted, and they were *visibly* more worn out then when they went in. Every few months, when the laundromat in their building is giving them grief, they come back and I poke fun if they want to do the laundry as fast as possible with the twin-tub, they crack up, decline it and use the frontloaders.
A better trade off would have been to agitate for 2-3 minutes, soak for 30 minutes, then agitate for another 2-3 minutes.
The vast majority of people who still like to use such systems have clothes that are (a) very sturdy (jeans, work t-shirts or shirts) and (b) work dirty jobs, so they can fully control the cycle including long soaks and long wash periods. Also the machines are cheap to buy and basically disposable if they need repairs (usually they just send you a new one to replace it).
Everyone else that I know of that wants to just load the machine, go away for one hour or two and come back to clean clothes moved to automatic machines. Everyone I know that want to have clean clothes with minimal fabric wear has bought a front loader -- in fact, about 10 years ago, my folks went to some touristy beach and got us all t-shirts. About 5 years in, when *their* t-shirts were worn out and gone (they had a regular toploader with agitator), they started pestering their kids whose t-shirts were still looking new about what washers and methods they used. We all said "hot wash in a front loader". About 4 years ago or so they bought their first front loader and are still talking about how much cleaner and less worn out their clothes look.
Like I said, mileages do vary, depending on what water quality, detergents etc one uses.
I've been describing my experience and my family's experiences.
Everyone else should research and find out what is best (or more fun) for themselves and the conditions they see everyday.
Cheers,
-- Paulo.
You can't really use those impeller machines, at the speed and rhythm they run the impeller, with low water. If you try, you are likely to stall the motor, or, at best, cause water to splash out of the tub.
There's a bit of a learning curve when you get used to how much clothes (and what kind) you can load them with and how much water to use.
I have a Panda XPB45 (4.5 kg/10lbs) twin-tub that I got from Amazon about a year or two ago to play with.
A friend of mine came to use my laundry (they live in an apartment building with a sketchy laundry room, coin-operated). They usually just use my frontloaders. This time the husband was curious to see what a twin-tub was like, 'cuz his granny complained about how much more work it was before automatics showed up.
He put a load of shirts in the machine, we filled the tub with the highest possible water level (it's completely manual, except for the timers). He washed for only 10 minutes or so. Shirts got as clean as the toploaders in a laundromat, but not as clean as they'd get in a domestic toploader or if we ran the machine for 15 minutes (max time on timer).
The shirts got rinsed and extracted, and they were *visibly* more worn out then when they went in. Every few months, when the laundromat in their building is giving them grief, they come back and I poke fun if they want to do the laundry as fast as possible with the twin-tub, they crack up, decline it and use the frontloaders.
A better trade off would have been to agitate for 2-3 minutes, soak for 30 minutes, then agitate for another 2-3 minutes.
The vast majority of people who still like to use such systems have clothes that are (a) very sturdy (jeans, work t-shirts or shirts) and (b) work dirty jobs, so they can fully control the cycle including long soaks and long wash periods. Also the machines are cheap to buy and basically disposable if they need repairs (usually they just send you a new one to replace it).
Everyone else that I know of that wants to just load the machine, go away for one hour or two and come back to clean clothes moved to automatic machines. Everyone I know that want to have clean clothes with minimal fabric wear has bought a front loader -- in fact, about 10 years ago, my folks went to some touristy beach and got us all t-shirts. About 5 years in, when *their* t-shirts were worn out and gone (they had a regular toploader with agitator), they started pestering their kids whose t-shirts were still looking new about what washers and methods they used. We all said "hot wash in a front loader". About 4 years ago or so they bought their first front loader and are still talking about how much cleaner and less worn out their clothes look.
Like I said, mileages do vary, depending on what water quality, detergents etc one uses.
I've been describing my experience and my family's experiences.
Everyone else should research and find out what is best (or more fun) for themselves and the conditions they see everyday.
Cheers,
-- Paulo.
about the only downside to a HE impellor machine is washing a puffy comforter, even on the Bulky Cycle....a FLer is usually best.....
but for a King Size quilt, it has no issues on a 'sheets' cycle....Deep Water Option not needed....
you will actually find less wear and tear, and lint in a HE impellor machine versus a traditional TL with an agitator...
even my Avanti and Magic Chef can be operated in regular or HE mode....
as with anything, your mileage may vary....
but for a King Size quilt, it has no issues on a 'sheets' cycle....Deep Water Option not needed....
you will actually find less wear and tear, and lint in a HE impellor machine versus a traditional TL with an agitator...
even my Avanti and Magic Chef can be operated in regular or HE mode....
as with anything, your mileage may vary....
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