How old is your water heater? Is it gas or electric? Has it ever been flushed?
I Love the Smell of Ozone In the Morning
- Thread starter rp2813
- Start date
Help Support :
No smell from the hot water out of the faucet. Gas water heater is maybe 5 years old at the most.
I'm going to run a regular wash cycle today and will hang around to check operation and listen for any new noises -- above the racket the machine already makes.
I'm going to run a regular wash cycle today and will hang around to check operation and listen for any new noises -- above the racket the machine already makes.
stevet
Well-known member
Whisper Quiet???
Ralph, many of the members have given some good explanations for the ozone smell you seem to be having, and I was going to suggest checking under the machine for a loose or arcing connection as well. maybe run it with all the panels off and with the lights off so you can see if there is any visible arcing going on and then repair it if found and if possible.
Getting to the KUDS22 machines..let me say that I have a KDS21M Monterrey and it is the Whisper Quiet model as well and I just picked up your KUDS22 unit and right off the bat, they are not built the same at all as far as sound deadening is concerned.
The 21 has that black mastic coating on the complete top and back as well as the two sides and the bottom right up to the sump.Plus a layer of foil covered fiberglass over that mastic.
The 22 has the mastic, halfway down the sides and over the top and back but nothing on the bottom at all.The foil covered fiberglass is only slightly longer in the back compared with the 21 so it would stand to reason that at least the 21 model I have is definitley the more quiet machine
Also, Whilpool cheaped out on the porcelain coating on the tank on the outside. It lacks the 3rd coat of porcelain which gave the tank a nice shiny coating.They left it uncoated and rough in texture and it looks and feels crummy and you see where all the metal sections of the tank are weleded to each other.
When I had the 21 installed in our kitchen, it was markedly quieter than the KDS18 we had as a daily driver and I had that machine wrapped in a double layer of insulation as well as inside the door and bottom panels.
The 23 series has thew Whirlpool Power module pump in it and I have always felt that it was the poorest build quality machine by then. The tanks seemed flimsier and the porcelain seemed to chip very easily and the quality of the racks were of a lesser quality because you would see many machines with chipped and rusted tanks and racks with lots of broken tines and rust everywhere. Maybe a fluke but I have seen it here in Florida as well as up in NY. The powermodule pumps are good but they lacked the true disposer that the 21-22 pumps had. They had basically a soft food disposer and could not really chop much of anything that was hard.
Yes they had no filter to clean but why would anyone really just dump dirty dishes into a machine and not expect to have to clean a filter if it is there to stop all the fine debris from washing back on to the dishware.
Say what you will,butI am sure that there is no manufacturer that tells you to not scrape the dishes and throw them in to wash. The least they recommend is scraping and if something is burned on, pretreating it before washing it.
If you are going to throw garbage in it, expect to clean something off the filters sooner or later. How much food do you want a few tablespoons of detergent with or without enzymes to gobble up?
Anyway, I have not decided what to do with my 22 machine at this time so it can be made available to anyone who would like it and I can even get an 18 together for someone as long as they don't mind it as a 20 tank without the constant rinse assy.
Come to think of it, the 21 is up for grabs as well!
And why are you hesitating on installing the 20 if and when the time comes? You will definitely lower your noise levels and you can still get it even quieter with some work.
Ralph, many of the members have given some good explanations for the ozone smell you seem to be having, and I was going to suggest checking under the machine for a loose or arcing connection as well. maybe run it with all the panels off and with the lights off so you can see if there is any visible arcing going on and then repair it if found and if possible.
Getting to the KUDS22 machines..let me say that I have a KDS21M Monterrey and it is the Whisper Quiet model as well and I just picked up your KUDS22 unit and right off the bat, they are not built the same at all as far as sound deadening is concerned.
The 21 has that black mastic coating on the complete top and back as well as the two sides and the bottom right up to the sump.Plus a layer of foil covered fiberglass over that mastic.
The 22 has the mastic, halfway down the sides and over the top and back but nothing on the bottom at all.The foil covered fiberglass is only slightly longer in the back compared with the 21 so it would stand to reason that at least the 21 model I have is definitley the more quiet machine
Also, Whilpool cheaped out on the porcelain coating on the tank on the outside. It lacks the 3rd coat of porcelain which gave the tank a nice shiny coating.They left it uncoated and rough in texture and it looks and feels crummy and you see where all the metal sections of the tank are weleded to each other.
When I had the 21 installed in our kitchen, it was markedly quieter than the KDS18 we had as a daily driver and I had that machine wrapped in a double layer of insulation as well as inside the door and bottom panels.
The 23 series has thew Whirlpool Power module pump in it and I have always felt that it was the poorest build quality machine by then. The tanks seemed flimsier and the porcelain seemed to chip very easily and the quality of the racks were of a lesser quality because you would see many machines with chipped and rusted tanks and racks with lots of broken tines and rust everywhere. Maybe a fluke but I have seen it here in Florida as well as up in NY. The powermodule pumps are good but they lacked the true disposer that the 21-22 pumps had. They had basically a soft food disposer and could not really chop much of anything that was hard.
Yes they had no filter to clean but why would anyone really just dump dirty dishes into a machine and not expect to have to clean a filter if it is there to stop all the fine debris from washing back on to the dishware.
Say what you will,butI am sure that there is no manufacturer that tells you to not scrape the dishes and throw them in to wash. The least they recommend is scraping and if something is burned on, pretreating it before washing it.
If you are going to throw garbage in it, expect to clean something off the filters sooner or later. How much food do you want a few tablespoons of detergent with or without enzymes to gobble up?
Anyway, I have not decided what to do with my 22 machine at this time so it can be made available to anyone who would like it and I can even get an 18 together for someone as long as they don't mind it as a 20 tank without the constant rinse assy.
Come to think of it, the 21 is up for grabs as well!
And why are you hesitating on installing the 20 if and when the time comes? You will definitely lower your noise levels and you can still get it even quieter with some work.
I vote for fixing the KDS-20 and just putting some time and effort in wrapping the tank with some good quality sound deadening material as well as stuffing some behind the door and lower kick panels too. That's probably what manufacturers did with whisper quiet machines.
I had a buddy whose dad cut out a 3 piece section of old carpet that was being ripped out and disposed of. He pulled out the noisy dishwasher they had at the time and stapled the carpet to the sides and back of the dishwasher insert. He said it made a huge difference in noise reduction.
There are many viable ways to reduce the DB's of an old KA dishwasher to reasonable levels with a little ingenuity and effort.
I had a buddy whose dad cut out a 3 piece section of old carpet that was being ripped out and disposed of. He pulled out the noisy dishwasher they had at the time and stapled the carpet to the sides and back of the dishwasher insert. He said it made a huge difference in noise reduction.
There are many viable ways to reduce the DB's of an old KA dishwasher to reasonable levels with a little ingenuity and effort.
toploader55
Well-known member
Just My Thoughts...
I love the Noise the Vintage Machines make. I'm here listening to the KDS18 just mulling through the Cycle, and nothing right now sounds better.
I love the Noise the Vintage Machines make. I'm here listening to the KDS18 just mulling through the Cycle, and nothing right now sounds better.
I also love the sound of the KDS-19, especially when it fires up after pre-heating! Ok, I'll be honest. I also like to watch visitors jump out of their skin when it fires up, even after a warning
I'm willing to bet the dishwasher noise probably doesn't bother Ralph much, it's the noise of his significant other
about the dishwasher that he can't tolerate.
I'm willing to bet the dishwasher noise probably doesn't bother Ralph much, it's the noise of his significant other
about the dishwasher that he can't tolerate.
Dan, you are so right!
Steve, thanks for the guidance. I can see where a 21 series would be the better option.
The motor on the KDS-20 is fairly loud, and I still have not gone back to revisit the issue of communication breakdown between timer and drain solenoid.
It's gotten to be time to open it back up and do some more investigating.
Steve, thanks for the guidance. I can see where a 21 series would be the better option.
The motor on the KDS-20 is fairly loud, and I still have not gone back to revisit the issue of communication breakdown between timer and drain solenoid.
It's gotten to be time to open it back up and do some more investigating.
It's Gone
The smell, that is, not the machine -- yet!
After a rinse-hold tonight, it just smells like the inside of a Thermador.
My theory is that something was stuck on the heating element, and it's been there for a while. For a few months there has been mild burning smell during the heated dry cycle. Apparently the element never got hot enough to burn whatever it was completely off within the time constraints of a drying cycle.
With the arrival of the ozone smell, the burning smell disappeared. Now both are gone. I think whatever was stuck to the element has finally burnt off.
Now if I could just get rid of that third noise the machine makes, besides the sound of the motor and the jets of water, it's the random yet constant cavitational-esque racket from which the machine has earned its nickname. Interestingly, it makes the noise less when it's fairly empty, and more when it's got a full load.
The smell, that is, not the machine -- yet!
After a rinse-hold tonight, it just smells like the inside of a Thermador.
My theory is that something was stuck on the heating element, and it's been there for a while. For a few months there has been mild burning smell during the heated dry cycle. Apparently the element never got hot enough to burn whatever it was completely off within the time constraints of a drying cycle.
With the arrival of the ozone smell, the burning smell disappeared. Now both are gone. I think whatever was stuck to the element has finally burnt off.
Now if I could just get rid of that third noise the machine makes, besides the sound of the motor and the jets of water, it's the random yet constant cavitational-esque racket from which the machine has earned its nickname. Interestingly, it makes the noise less when it's fairly empty, and more when it's got a full load.
stevet
Well-known member
Water Level check?
Ralph, is it possible that your dishwasher is noit filling all the way up? I think we can say that with a fully loaded machine, it could take the water a few seconds longer to drop back down to the bottom of the tub to be picked back up by the pump and IIRC, these machines dont have too deep a sump area so the chances of cavitation are greater if there is any delay in the water returning to the pump.Or if there is too little water to begin with. Perhaps a bit more water in the machine will eliminate the noise.
On a less fully loaded rinse or wash, that same water can drop back down faster and thus stop the cavitation.
Looking to hear what you find.
Ralph, is it possible that your dishwasher is noit filling all the way up? I think we can say that with a fully loaded machine, it could take the water a few seconds longer to drop back down to the bottom of the tub to be picked back up by the pump and IIRC, these machines dont have too deep a sump area so the chances of cavitation are greater if there is any delay in the water returning to the pump.Or if there is too little water to begin with. Perhaps a bit more water in the machine will eliminate the noise.
On a less fully loaded rinse or wash, that same water can drop back down faster and thus stop the cavitation.
Looking to hear what you find.
DW WATER LEVEL
Very good point to check Stevet. Many many dishwashers over ten years old [ and some even newer ] need a new inlet valve to achieve proper performance. It is easy to see if this is the problem on your TD DWer, when the machine is making this sound just stop it open the door and add at least 2 quarts of hot water and see if the sound changes, if so you need a new inlet valve or have other water supply issues.
Very good point to check Stevet. Many many dishwashers over ten years old [ and some even newer ] need a new inlet valve to achieve proper performance. It is easy to see if this is the problem on your TD DWer, when the machine is making this sound just stop it open the door and add at least 2 quarts of hot water and see if the sound changes, if so you need a new inlet valve or have other water supply issues.
Of course this CANT be the problem, but a stinky machine can come from rubber/plastic items hitting the heating element such as an old-fashioned pacifier.
Have you tried running the machine with bleach then detergent while empty? Another option may be Cascade Plastics Booster, which is basically peroxide and fake pine scent.
I understand that masking the cause of the problem is not a solution, but I have to agree that ozone itself may be hard to generate in a DW.
I'm sticking to something having melted on the heating element but such that it doesn't smell at the moment the machine is drying.
Have you tried running the machine with bleach then detergent while empty? Another option may be Cascade Plastics Booster, which is basically peroxide and fake pine scent.
I understand that masking the cause of the problem is not a solution, but I have to agree that ozone itself may be hard to generate in a DW.
I'm sticking to something having melted on the heating element but such that it doesn't smell at the moment the machine is drying.
Steve and John, that water level theory matches mine exactly, and yes, I thought about how a larger load would cause the water to drop back down more slowly. I checked the float after the tub had filled and it can come up quite a bit further before I hear the click.
The fill is timed. It's two minutes long. When the TT was installed, we took the inlet from the Motley Maytag it replaced because the one on the TT leaked. Nate cleaned it up as best he could before installing it, because it had quite a bit of rusty crud caked up in it.
The pipes in this house are 80+ years old, and the ones leading to the kitchen sink are definitely the most used, and pressure there is less than ideal. I suspect the inlet valve is OK and it's just a matter of the pipes not being able to deliver enough water within the two minute time frame. My guess is that with adequate pressure, the tub would fill enough to trigger the float within the two minute time allotted.
The fill is timed. It's two minutes long. When the TT was installed, we took the inlet from the Motley Maytag it replaced because the one on the TT leaked. Nate cleaned it up as best he could before installing it, because it had quite a bit of rusty crud caked up in it.
The pipes in this house are 80+ years old, and the ones leading to the kitchen sink are definitely the most used, and pressure there is less than ideal. I suspect the inlet valve is OK and it's just a matter of the pipes not being able to deliver enough water within the two minute time frame. My guess is that with adequate pressure, the tub would fill enough to trigger the float within the two minute time allotted.
See my ISE thread here in Imperial.
With any luck, I may have solved the Thermador problem once and for all.
With any luck, I may have solved the Thermador problem once and for all.
