i need a new relay
- Thread starter anthony
- Start date
This relay would have been fitted to
at least three Hotpoint machines that I know of because they all used the same motor. the machine i have is an Empress but the Countess and Hotpoint's first twintub all had the same motor [i think]. I was wondering if the relay from a supermatic might get the thing running again?
at least three Hotpoint machines that I know of because they all used the same motor. the machine i have is an Empress but the Countess and Hotpoint's first twintub all had the same motor [i think]. I was wondering if the relay from a supermatic might get the thing running again?
Ahh. Don’t have any experience with any of the UK Hotpoint machines since I live in the US, but just wanted to see if I could help since I just didn’t want to leave you hanging. Someone might have the relay you are looking for, or know a way to retrofit a general purpose relay for the application you plan on trying to use it for.
slowspin66
Well-known member
New relay
Is your relay the box type Anthony or the triangle shaped one ?
I always repaired the box shaped ones . . A bit of a fiddle but can be done …
Is your relay the box type Anthony or the triangle shaped one ?
I always repaired the box shaped ones . . A bit of a fiddle but can be done …
Hi slowspin
its the box type atached to the inside of the cabinet .didn't know they could be repaired .Would be interested to know more . I have ohm ed out the windings and they seem to be alright no signs of them getting hot either so am assuming the relay is faulty . I have a relay from a hotpoint twintub and was thinking of trying that or perhaps a capacitor
its the box type atached to the inside of the cabinet .didn't know they could be repaired .Would be interested to know more . I have ohm ed out the windings and they seem to be alright no signs of them getting hot either so am assuming the relay is faulty . I have a relay from a hotpoint twintub and was thinking of trying that or perhaps a capacitor
ragnboneman
Well-known member
These are very nice to have when you need to clean the contacts on a relay or timer.
Its a burnishing file made for contacts
Sand paper is not something I ever use.
In a pinch just a sheet of paper will often clean a contact.
relay coils can be hand wound but its lot of effort.
https://external-content.duckduckgo...cff641deb6700ecc8a676a419287be4a3e&ipo=images
Its a burnishing file made for contacts
Sand paper is not something I ever use.
In a pinch just a sheet of paper will often clean a contact.
relay coils can be hand wound but its lot of effort.
https://external-content.duckduckgo...cff641deb6700ecc8a676a419287be4a3e&ipo=images
slowspin66
Well-known member
I know it’s odd
The box type relay isn’t a sealed unit Anthony and the cover is held in place with two brass rivets that are easily drilled out . The thin cover will pop off easily . I’ve seen all sorts of insects ( always dead) that have taken up lodgings in them along with spiders webs !!
Clean the contacts re attach any loose contacts and you should be good to go ..
I try to test them ( the correct way up) insitu with the cover off but sat on the bottom of the machine ..
you will see if the plunger then moves to switch off the start windings ..
keep us posted Darren
The box type relay isn’t a sealed unit Anthony and the cover is held in place with two brass rivets that are easily drilled out . The thin cover will pop off easily . I’ve seen all sorts of insects ( always dead) that have taken up lodgings in them along with spiders webs !!
Clean the contacts re attach any loose contacts and you should be good to go ..
I try to test them ( the correct way up) insitu with the cover off but sat on the bottom of the machine ..
you will see if the plunger then moves to switch off the start windings ..
keep us posted Darren
well
i have done as you suggested Darren . cover off relay [its quite clean inside ] cleaned contacts .Attached the relay to a block of wood so i can see what happens when switched on .I might add that its the right way up .On switch on there's nothing the plunger doesn't move at all . Will check the windings again . I recently bought a new all singing dancing multimeter and am not yet fully used to it so will do the tests again with my old one.
i have done as you suggested Darren . cover off relay [its quite clean inside ] cleaned contacts .Attached the relay to a block of wood so i can see what happens when switched on .I might add that its the right way up .On switch on there's nothing the plunger doesn't move at all . Will check the windings again . I recently bought a new all singing dancing multimeter and am not yet fully used to it so will do the tests again with my old one.
ragnboneman
Well-known member
Can you post some pictures I would like to see this
If the relay your talking about is for starting a single phase motor there are after market solid state switches like this that are very reliable.
I have used these in places where motors had switches that we could not replace or repair.
Other times on motors converted from three to single phase
https://www.eis-inc.com/product/solid-state-motor-switch-ph23-sinpac-cv
If the relay your talking about is for starting a single phase motor there are after market solid state switches like this that are very reliable.
I have used these in places where motors had switches that we could not replace or repair.
Other times on motors converted from three to single phase
https://www.eis-inc.com/product/solid-state-motor-switch-ph23-sinpac-cv
pictures of the motor and relay
I temporarily disconnected the heater and motor switch to make it easier for testing. Pic one is the motor with the pump and fan removed . Pic 2 is the relay connected to the motor and the mains. Pic 3 is the full wiring diagram for the machine and 4 is the other side of the relay .
I temporarily disconnected the heater and motor switch to make it easier for testing. Pic one is the motor with the pump and fan removed . Pic 2 is the relay connected to the motor and the mains. Pic 3 is the full wiring diagram for the machine and 4 is the other side of the relay .
ragnboneman
Well-known member
I see what you have.
Looks like a current start relay.
Ya see previous post about aftermarket parts solid state stating switch.
That should fix you right up...
here is another looks at one from an AC compressor or something....
https://external-content.duckduckgo...690aadcd0d1b3e2b20d3da26246626db8b&ipo=images
Looks like a current start relay.
Ya see previous post about aftermarket parts solid state stating switch.
That should fix you right up...
here is another looks at one from an AC compressor or something....
https://external-content.duckduckgo...690aadcd0d1b3e2b20d3da26246626db8b&ipo=images
I see what you mean
this relay was used in the Hotpoint twin tub to start the wash motor .I was thinking of giving it a try . The later Hotpoint twin tubs used the capacitor to do the same job . if the relay was not working would there be any response from the motor at all ? such as a hum .when i switch on its completely dead.
this relay was used in the Hotpoint twin tub to start the wash motor .I was thinking of giving it a try . The later Hotpoint twin tubs used the capacitor to do the same job . if the relay was not working would there be any response from the motor at all ? such as a hum .when i switch on its completely dead.
ragnboneman
Well-known member
It will probably just hum until a protection device trips or the motor overheats the winding is damaged.
Here is a video that explains how a single phase motor works ( split phase induction there are other unrelated types )
Does this help?
Watch and feel free to ask questions.
Its not very often people ask me real technical questions about how stuff actually works.
But for now the video
Here is a video that explains how a single phase motor works ( split phase induction there are other unrelated types )
Does this help?
Watch and feel free to ask questions.
Its not very often people ask me real technical questions about how stuff actually works.
But for now the video
ragnboneman
Well-known member
If its not humming there is a problem!
Check for continuity of the main winding of the motor and the coil in the starting relay...
The later hotpoint is using a capacitor to give the AUX winding a bit more leading phase shift for more starting torque than the earlier one.
It was quite common to build them both ways capacitor start and simple restive start ( AUX winding has smaller wire to limit current and this has the same effect as a cap just not as strong... cheaper way to make motors )
So to be very specific I will post some more video
Check for continuity of the main winding of the motor and the coil in the starting relay...
The later hotpoint is using a capacitor to give the AUX winding a bit more leading phase shift for more starting torque than the earlier one.
It was quite common to build them both ways capacitor start and simple restive start ( AUX winding has smaller wire to limit current and this has the same effect as a cap just not as strong... cheaper way to make motors )
So to be very specific I will post some more video
ragnboneman
Well-known member
Well Anthony:
Any what say you chum?
Does any of this help?
Any what say you chum?
Does any of this help?
well
today I removed the motor windings and examined them with a magnifying glass [they look to be in good condition but of course there could be anything going on in among all that wire. I then did an ohms test .You can see the results in the photos. Did them with 2 different meters just to be on the safe side
today I removed the motor windings and examined them with a magnifying glass [they look to be in good condition but of course there could be anything going on in among all that wire. I then did an ohms test .You can see the results in the photos. Did them with 2 different meters just to be on the safe side
ragnboneman
Well-known member
I would say there is nothing wrong with that motor
R main... running winding
C Common lead.
S Start winding C is common pretty obvious
The coil on your relay should be in series with the R ( assumption on my part not having the machine here to look at )
Start will be connected between the line on R AND the S winding terminal.
The fact nothing hums makes me wonder if your not getting power to the motor from your timer.
generic red Glyptal...
BSA Triumph Norton, Lister, Petters used to use this same product to seal up the metal on casting to stop the engines from weeping oil through porris castings.
Good electrical practices on old motors is to paint the whole thing with this stuff to cover any mechanical damage to windings and fortify the old insulation and varnish.
Clean it good with dish soap and water let dry 24 hours and then place some where warm ( under 200 FF but as close as possible for an hour to drive out last of moister then paint it with Glyptal 1201A or a reasonable similar product.
https://external-content.duckduckgo...e368608fdb60e602bb7ed792c21e9bb86a&ipo=images
R main... running winding
C Common lead.
S Start winding C is common pretty obvious
The coil on your relay should be in series with the R ( assumption on my part not having the machine here to look at )
Start will be connected between the line on R AND the S winding terminal.
The fact nothing hums makes me wonder if your not getting power to the motor from your timer.
generic red Glyptal...
BSA Triumph Norton, Lister, Petters used to use this same product to seal up the metal on casting to stop the engines from weeping oil through porris castings.
Good electrical practices on old motors is to paint the whole thing with this stuff to cover any mechanical damage to windings and fortify the old insulation and varnish.
Clean it good with dish soap and water let dry 24 hours and then place some where warm ( under 200 FF but as close as possible for an hour to drive out last of moister then paint it with Glyptal 1201A or a reasonable similar product.
https://external-content.duckduckgo...e368608fdb60e602bb7ed792c21e9bb86a&ipo=images
ragnboneman
Well-known member
Is there an electrical print on the machine you can post.
I am wondering why the reading between R and S is so low...
I am expecting it to be a little higher than S to C but its not
A print might clear that up a bit
Does this motor have bushing or ball bearings.
I assume Bushing because of the age..
See if the wicking is dry....
Lubricate with some electric motor oil or non detergent light machine oil ( SAE 20 non detergent oil is exceptable, sewing machine oil if nothing else... )
https://external-content.duckduckgo...1d8e1ba35609415b5bdf8ac67af1958f88&ipo=images
https://3inone.com/product/3-in-one-motor-oil/
I am wondering why the reading between R and S is so low...
I am expecting it to be a little higher than S to C but its not
A print might clear that up a bit
Does this motor have bushing or ball bearings.
I assume Bushing because of the age..
See if the wicking is dry....
Lubricate with some electric motor oil or non detergent light machine oil ( SAE 20 non detergent oil is exceptable, sewing machine oil if nothing else... )
https://external-content.duckduckgo...1d8e1ba35609415b5bdf8ac67af1958f88&ipo=images
https://3inone.com/product/3-in-one-motor-oil/
when you say
print do you mean a wiring diagram ? if so there isn't one but I did draw the full circuit before i disturbed any of the wiring. because of where everything is on the machine it was easier to do away with the on off switch and heater .Photo 1 is the full wiring diagram .photo 2 is how i have it wired up for testing. the third photo is of the stator in its housing .The bearings run freely and smooth no resistance at all
print do you mean a wiring diagram ? if so there isn't one but I did draw the full circuit before i disturbed any of the wiring. because of where everything is on the machine it was easier to do away with the on off switch and heater .Photo 1 is the full wiring diagram .photo 2 is how i have it wired up for testing. the third photo is of the stator in its housing .The bearings run freely and smooth no resistance at all
ragnboneman
Well-known member
You verified you have power going to the relay first and then out to the motor?
The motor should hum if the contacts are bad but coil good in the relay.
If you have no hum at all then the coil in the relay could be fried open.
The motor should run if you connect power to it and it hums... and you manually give a little push to start turning.
So do a continuity test of the switch and report back.
I wonder if we could try a zoom meeting and I could talk you through things.....
The motor should hum if the contacts are bad but coil good in the relay.
If you have no hum at all then the coil in the relay could be fried open.
The motor should run if you connect power to it and it hums... and you manually give a little push to start turning.
So do a continuity test of the switch and report back.
I wonder if we could try a zoom meeting and I could talk you through things.....
ragnboneman
Well-known member
Take the components to a rewind shop and have them tested.
Maybe its just the switch
I would need to have it in front of me to test.
If the relay is burned you should be able to pick that up on a continuity test.
the rewind shop will be able to sell you a replacement part thats functionally the same.
Maybe its just the switch
I would need to have it in front of me to test.
If the relay is burned you should be able to pick that up on a continuity test.
the rewind shop will be able to sell you a replacement part thats functionally the same.
ragnboneman
Well-known member
If you were getting continuity between all three terminals of the relay/start switch I would think thats normal based on your drawing...
An open would to me indicate a fried coil.
An open would to me indicate a fried coil.
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