If Heat Kills Enzymes....

[frigilux]

...then why do they put them in dishwasher detergents? Doesn't it get hot enough by the main wash period to render them ineffective?

Someone posted that enzymes are killed off at temps reaching 140-degrees.

Do dishwasher detergents have uber-enzymes that don't die at 140-degrees?

Then why don't they put uber-enzymes in laundry detergent?

Huh? Why? Huh?

 

[frigilux]

Launderess, honey, where are you today? I'm going to sit cross-legged on the floor, face east and concentrate on bringing you out from the ether in hopes you will have the answer to this one.

 

[toggleswitch]

Where is she.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzymes

 

[frigilux]

Thanks, Togs! I'm going to start reading.

 

[launderess]

There are many different enzymes, both natural and man-made/tinkered with, and just like other living creatures some enzymes are happy in temps that would bother others.

For instance there are enzymes that are quite happy in very hot conditions, such as natural hot springs/hot baths. Then there are those who are happy in cooler ranges.

In general, most enzymes used for laundry and automatic dishwashing work best between 100F and 140F, with 120F-140F being the sweet spot. Enzymes will work in cool and perhaps even cold water, but the activity will be slower and require more contact time.

Because of this "low" temperature range, detergents with enzymes clean just as well or better in most cases than the harsh alkaline/high temp detergents they replaced. Notice even on European front loading washing machines, the high temp range used to be 200F,and is now around 170F, if that. This is because enzymes combined with percarbonate bleach work well in "cooler" water temps. This is also a boon to automatic dishwashing detergents for machines in the United States, which use 120v power. Such machines rarely reach more than 140F wash temps (if even that, depending upon several factors), so enzymes will in general produce better results without the need for chlorine bleach (which was used because it attacks protein - the reason one cannot use it on silk or wool), and at "lower" wash temps.

L.

 

[frigilux]

Oh thank God you arrived and explained it in simple English. I read most of the Wikipedia entry and it gave me a headache.

Also: This proves I can contact people through MIND POWER. Or not, LOL.

No matter what brought you here, thank you, Launderess.

 

[logixx]

Our AEG/Electrolux dishwasher always did a special type of profile wash.

On the 50°C cycles (BIO cycles) it fills with cold water, heats to 50° and maintains the temp for about ten minutes (or so). It then heats to 60° to activate the oxy bleach before turning the heater off to use the residual heat to continue washing for some more minutes.

With hotter cycles it will also heat to 50° and maintain the temp there for some time before heating to 65 or 70°C.

Alex

 

[launderess]

All You Ever Wanted To Know About Enzymes

For detergents and textile care, but were afraid to ask.

Pipe:

http://www.novozymes.com/en/MainStructure/ProductsAndSolutions/Detergents/

 

[mickeyd]

Laundress, A Very Merry Christmas!

What would we do without you? We love you. How did you get so articulate? Your IQ must be stratospheric!

One senses that Laundress innately disdains personals, but sometimes one can't resist.

 

[launderess]

Why Thank You!

What a sweet thing to say.

Am not that "smart", *LOL*

What one does have is the benefit of an education which seems long since out of vouge. At school we were taught how to research and look up information. From the Dewy Decimal System, to using dictionaries and such. Even though comuters and Internet serach engines weren't around then, the process is pretty much the same. One just types the information one is seeking, rather than leafing through endless pages. Also when growing up, whenever one had a question regarding something, asking an adult or teacher usually illicited the same response, "go look it up".

On enzymes and such, must credit my nursing school background with all those science courses, and hobby in laundry/cleaning products.

L.

 

[appnut]

Ahh yes, our beloved Laundress (Cimberlie). I have had the distinc honor and priviledge of "knowing her" (via internet) since late 200 or early 2001 when the original HE3Ts were coming on the market. Met her in the appliance forum on Gardenweb (thathomesite). She has charmed me with her vast knowledgte and many times sheer determination to geet at the bottom of some issue and discover more knowledge (plush she's been known to do her own comparison tests). BTW L, what does your stach of laundry aids look like these days? Still erquiring an addition to teh house? A very Merry Christmas M'am. Bob

 

[launderess]

If one examines the Novozyme website (above linked page), it seems to back up my theory that top shelf laundry detergents, with their chemical/enzyme cocktails are leaving BOL detergents in the dust.

With so many enzymes available to target a whole host of laundry/textile care "problems", the need for the good old high alkaline detergents made to work in very hot water are reduced if not eliminated. These new enzymes probably are also behind the huge push into liquid/gel laundry detergents. Again, as previously stated elsewhere, with a complex cocktail of enzymes doing the grunt work, detergents can leave behind washing soda, and other harsh chemicals.

L.

 

[jamiel]

Wonder why some of the products are not available in North America...licensing, legalities, patenting?????

 

[MrX]

I doubt that it has much to do with legalities or patenting, as I'm sure they're patentented.

I'd say it has a lot more to do with the fact that the top loader is still dominant in the USA. From what I gather, most of these products work best in low water volume machines where they can be used in very high concentrations.

To get the same result in a US toploader you'd probabally need to add the entire box to the wash to achieve the concentration of detergent that's normally found in a European machine during the wash cycle.

I'd say many of the HE products on the US market contain some of these enzymes too though.

 

[launderess]

Actually from what one has read, enzymes are used in low concentrations for laundry and automatic dishwasher detergents. Somewhere >6% of the total formula, again IIRC.

Am not saying amount per dosage for top loading verus front loading may not be differnet, but consider many persons in the USA are using Persil and other European detergents. These persons can and are using much less product due to the softer water found in most of North America, and stillgetting good results. Persil/Henkel-Germany calls for 1/4 cup or more of the regular Persil powder, and many here use 1-2 tablespoons with no loss of cleaning power. Therefore one must assume the amount of enzymes is enough to do the job.

Another thing to consider is unlike other laundry chemicals, enzymes like yeast can reproduce under proper conditions. Bi-O-Kleen makes a product called "Bac-Out" which is a live enzyme product used as a pre-treat/odour removal/pet stain/odour removal and states clearly that the enzymes contained will make more of themselves, under the proper conditions, until the stain or whatever biological matter the product is supposed to be attacking, is gone.