if you had to chose a dishwasher today what would you go with modern or vintage

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pierreandreply4

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hello to all aw members if yu had to chose a dishwasher today would you go with a modern dishwasher where you would have to let the hot water run from the tap before running the dishwasher or use the hi temp wash option as well as sanitize rinse option to get the needed hot water, or a vintage dishwasher where the water would already come in the dishwasher hot in modern dishwashers these days basing myself on the modern ge dishwasher my mom and I own if I have to add something in the dishwasher at start of the cycle until the options to heat the water kicks in water comes in luck warm or cold sometime so in order to get hot water I must use the steam prewash option as well as make sure the sanitize option is on feel free to share your opinions.

*small note the dishwasher I have is still brand new
 
Vintage!!!

We just replaced a BOL Modern WP with a vintage KitchenAid KDS-20. No comparison! Vintage is better, an old KA, Maytag Jetclean or reverse rack, Whirlpool Powerclean, or a D&M Rotorack
 
I would personally go new.
I’m quite confident in the performance of WP and Bosch’s new products. I like the water savings, the quiet operation, exterior style. The cycle times don’t bother me.

But that’s me.
 
I personally think that there are plenty of good options on the market. Bosch is definitely the king if finances allow. I'm simply blown away by the cleaning performance of these machines. They're so quiet its hard to tell if they are running.

From the standard brands (WP, GE, Frigidaire) I would honestly go with a middle of the line model. I think a lot of the higher end options are gimmicky. I do like Frigidaire's blade spray wash arm which appears to soak the load a lot better than a standard wash arm. I however have never really had issue with a standard one. GE seems like the Whirlpool knockoff with a little more thought put into them. It is really personal preference.

I think my biggest factor at this point is the way the racks are designed. Bosch definitely takes advantage of every square inch.
 
I would love a vintage KitchenAid as well but surprisingly if I had to make the decision right now I would go with new. I currently have a Miele dishwasher and am more than pleased with the results. I consistently get beautifully clean dishes and not a speck of food is left on them. Once in a while I challenge it with a really burnt casserole dish or filthy pan and every time I think I will open it after the cycle and it will be dirty and every time its sparkling clean.

I have owned a Kenmore from the 70's, followed by a GE GSD2800, then an Australian brand that I cant remember, a whirlpool right after the power clean was discontinued, a Miele, a Bosch 800 series and now my Miele Futura Diamond. Of all of them this Miele and the GE are my favorites.
 
One more

There was a Jenn Air about 6 years ago that had Maytag (hence whirlpool) guts and although I had problems that one cleaned surprisingly well. The racks rusted and the middle spray arm would stop rotating from time to time. When it worked I had great results. Cleaned as well as the Bosch.
 
I am faced with that decision now

 

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">We just bought a new house and my husband really wants a modern dishwasher in the kitchen as our daily driver.  We've been living with a Maytag RR for a about a year now.  I love it, but for whatever reason he really wants something modern in the kitchen.  I was hoping to find a vintage house with a vintage kitchen but it wasn't in the cards this time around.  We settled on a home built 18 years ago.  It was built by a builder for himself so it has lots of extras like an amazing custom kitchen.  This is the reason Joe wants modern for the dishwasher.  </span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">So the compromise...The house has a large laundry room with lots of cabinets and a sink.  I'm going to have the cabinets altered to accommodate a dishwasher and I'll put a vintage machine in there and use it as a back up.  I can pull them in and out of there depending on my mood.  </span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">I'm looking at a Miele G 6745 for the kitchen.  Anyone have this machine and recommendation?  We don't close until the end of this month so I still have some time to decide what I want to put in.  I've always wanted a Miele Dishwasher so I figure I better strike while the iron is hot on that one!!</span>
 
vintage is fine,

but for me if the other appliances are also.
Miele is top klasse.
Is your pooch a poodle, havanese, or a bijon?
We've been without a dog going on 3 years. Had two large ones before. Time for a smaller breed. I'd like on I can still walk though.
 
She is a Bison thanks for asking.

 

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">She is the light of my heart (next to hubby or course).  Best dog I have ever had.  We did a lot of research before we picked this breed and it was all true.  Very smart, good temperament, good around people, very easy to train, etc.  Spoiled you ask, YES and I own it.  LOL.</span>

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;"> </span>

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">She turned 13 this year and she is still going strong.  We keep her cut short because we don't want to brush her every day.  We have a few times over the years let her grow out to that typical Bison cut but it's lot of work so short is better for us.  </span>

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">Here are a couple of my favorite snaps.  This is a great option if you want a small dog with a good temperament.  We pad trained her in about a week so she doesn't even have to go out unless we are.  Great option when it's crappy outside so she stays clean.</span>

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"Modern or Vintage?"

It depends on several factors.

Obviously, water consumption is a big deal these days, so a modern machine it has to be.

Spare parts can be an issue, so again, go modern.

But there's no point in buying a modern machine if it doesn't clean well.

In saying that, my experience of a modern machine from 2013, shows that it cleans very well indeed.

Conversely, my modern machine from 2003/2004 is just too lily-livered to do a consistently good job. Bosch, with my model, erred just too much on the lower side of time and energy usage. It could have done with an extra 15-20 minutes per cycle, or a more aggressive spray action - or maybe both.

I rather think that machines and detergents have 'leap-frogged' over each other. Thus a vintage machine might give good performance with the old chlorine and phosphate detergents, but might not work as well with the biological non-phosphate ones. I had that experience with 1990s machines (Zanussi), and poor performance with bio powders (Reckitt Benckiser's 'Finish Ultra', Lever's 'Sun Micro', P&G 'Fairy Glazeguard'). The then available tablets weren't much cop either, typically Finish 'Dual Layer' and Lever's Sun. However, a concentrated Finish 'Ultra Plus' powder was chlorine based, and it worked absolutely wonderfully.

I suppose an analogy would be that vintage cars are designed for leaded petrol, but modern ones are made to use unleaded petrol.
 
Great analogy

 

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">And one more thing to add to your list is the noise which is the main reason my other half wants a modern machine.  We have an open concept kitchen and family room.  Every vintage machine I've had in this kitchen has been so noisy that I could only run it when we weren't going to be watching TV.  The quietest was a Dacor I had years ago.  It was so quiet it had a light that shined on the floor to remind you it was running.  Hated the rack configuration.  I had a BOSCH for a while that was quiet but I didn't like those racks either.  Since then it's been all vintage. </span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif;">The loudest of them all has been this Maytag RR but I love the loading and the cleaning so I run it when we're not in there.  The new house is not quite as open as this one but a loud machine will still be heard in the Family Room so I'll go modern for convenience sake (and to slow down the bitching Ha.) and the items you listed above.</span>
 
Oh, that's easy:

Vintage (pre water saving) Potscrubber with multi-orbital arm, hands down. Cleans better, rinses better, the multi-orbital arm doesn't require special loading to get things clean.

Vintage KA is overrated. They require insanely exacting loading patterns, their porcelain tanks rust through and they don't clean or rinse well enough to justify the outrageous prices.

But - any Hobart built KA is going to be a million times better choice than the plasti-elasti trash on the market today. Miele is the only good modern brand. I liked mine back home a lot. 
 
New

We just replaced our Whirlpool GU2300 (which is for sale by the way) with a new Bosch 300 series machine. I love the Bosch. It uses far less water, believe it or not, energy as well using the Normal cycle. It washes better, and dries better despite what people say about them not drying. I do, however, dislike the racks in comparison. I am still getting used to it. I looked at Miele dishwashers and could not justify spending at least $1K for what I can get in a Bosch for $700. Plus, Bosch rates higher in reliability, wash performance, and also they have a larger number of certified service technicians and parts in the US. So I went with the Bosch! After Easter I loaded up the machine to the brim and ran a heavy cycle. Not a speck was left anywhere. The Whirlpool did a good job when using Hi-Temp wash and Sani-Rinse, but otherwise was average and loved to redistribute food particles. I clean the filter after each wash since I tend to not rinse before I load. It is just a way to prevent it from getting dirty. I just removed the second rack handle/ tablet tray to see if the Quantum pacs will dissolve faster this way.

With that being said, an old Hobart build KitchenAid machine would be cool since my great grandfather actually work at the Troy, Ohio plant, and these machines really kick up the water well. Some times I wish that the Whirlpool and Bosch both had a cycle that would run higher water levels, heat the water very quick, and use higher pressures. My Bosch does have the Clean30 cycle that I have never used. I do wish it came with the Clean60 cycle instead.
 
Personally quietness and low water consumption aren’t necessarily must haves to me, the biggest thing to me is how clean the dishes come out. My two biggest complaints about modern dishwashers: insanely long wash cycle times, and having grown up surrounded by dishwashers with built in garbage disposals, I find those filters in the bottom that you have to clean to be completely obnoxious. Perhaps I’ve been spoiled these last 13 years by the PowerClean and it’s disposal. I could overlook the long wash cycles if I didn’t have to clean that filter. Might seem like a strange and petty dealbreaker, but it’s so easy to forget about that filter until the foul smell of rotten food particles shows up. Some family with a now one year old Whirlpool with the global wash system had no idea the filter was there, and neither did I until recently, so the machine went almost a year without having that thing cleaned, talk about foul and fucci!
 
At the risk of being branded an AW heretic, I’ll vote for no dishwasher right now. A week ago, I turned on my 10 month old Whirlpool dishwasher loaded to the hilt with a couple of days worth of unrinsed dishes and left the house for a walk. When I returned the clean light was on. I opened the door and found that the dishwasher had filled with water, but the water hadn’t sprayed the dirty dishes. And with the heated dry selected the food had baked on all the dishes!

So, I had to wash them all by hand, after soaking them to get the baked on food off. Up to this point I have been very pleased with this dishwasher. I called Whirlpool and they set me up with an appt. for a service tech to come on the 4th of April, between 8am and 4pm, and the tech was located almost 70 miles away. On Tues. the 3rd they called and now wanted to come between 4 and 7pm. I told them to cancel the appt., and I called Whirlpool back, got a great service rep who listened to my concern and set me up with an appt. with a service rep only 5 miles away, for 4-18.

In the meantime, I’ve rediscovered the theraputic satisfaction of doing our dishes by hand, and I’ll have the dishwasher repaired, but probably won’t use it much anymore, if at all. The dishes seem to be cleaner, especially the glassware, and they are all done at once, I don’t have to latter on go back to the kitchen and unload the dishwasher. I like to complete tasks from beginning to end. And having to go back later to unload the dishwasher just prolongs my “MIldred Pierce’n” inthe kitchen.

I’ve had a dishwasher since 1987, and I never thought that these words would ever leave my mouth. But this is our second diswasher in less that 3 years, and I’m really disappointed with the quality that I see in whats being produced these days. So, for the foreseeable future I’m going to just do our dishes the tried and true old fashioned way. Another plus, is that this task helps me to release my anxiety over the current state of our union.

So, all’s well that ends well. I’m currently using the dishwasher to store the dish drainer and drain board when they aren’t in use, very handy storage space, even if that's not its intended purpose.
Eddie

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Too radical for me too! LOL I’m vehemently opposed to washing dishes by hand, a good dishwasher should be even more thorough and they sanitize dishes with water hotter than we humans can stand to touch. I learned how to wash things by hand but I also was taught that a dishwasher is preferable, hand washing is for those rare things that won’t fit or when you need one or two items immediately. We don’t buy non dishwasher safe dishes or cookware so that’s not an issue...
 
i prefer to clean my dishes in the dishwasher

to be honest I prefer using the dishewasher than wash by hand here how my dishwasher works if I use normal cycle with heat dry no water heating option cycle is 1 hour 23 minutes 1hour 46 minute if using the wash bottle option on heavy with all option its 2 hours 93 minutes almost 3 hours
 
Well, I refuse to be without a dishwasher.  Last fall I was without my dishwasher for almost 6 weeks because the distribution valve died.  (Then I later found out my very hard water helped kill it and the pump died a week after the valve was replaced).  The last tech to install the new pump had worked as a repair tech for 30 years.  He advised me to use Lemi Shine dishwasher cleaner once a month rather than the the Affresh because I need something stronger with my water conditions.  So now I do that and also add Finish booster in addition to my pod and put some Cascade Complete gel in the prewash.  My loads are always pretty soiled after 2-4 days (after all I AM Mr. BobLoad).  My water heater is set at 120 degrees and even though I run the tap right before I turn on the machine, the prewash water is between tepid and warm at best.  I rarely use high-temp option.  I use Smart Wash or Normal most of the time and no heat dry.  Default times for those two cycles are 1:40 and 1:52.  But by the time the dishwasher adjusts the cycle and target temp because of soil level, that stretches out to about 2:42 to 2:58 minutes and I usually get 3 post wash rinses automatically due to soil.  Default for Pots & Pans is 2:16 and with high-temp that is 2:40.  That cycle usually finishes 2-5 minutes less than the initial default times. If I do occasionally use&#92 heated dry, I use the extended heated dry and that adds 1:26 minutes. 

 

Rarely run the dishwasher when I'm not awake.  The day the distribution valve failed, I'd loaded it up with filthy dishes after doing a bunch of cooking and had timed it such that the cycle would be finished by the time I left for work the next day.  I cam out for breakfast the next morning and didn't hear the usual slight sound of water spraying from wash arms.  I'd selected TurboZone and thought may it was in that phase.  (But it didn't change for the rest of the cycle).  turns out it never changed from the initial TZ jet use in prewash.  The detergent pod was still perched atop the bottom rack handle where it had landed on when the dispenser opened.  I waited until I got home from work to open it up.  Original dish soil level.  I had to wash the damn load by hand.  Every night I talked to my partner on the phone he got an earful of just how much I hate washing dishes by hand and eating/drinking from disposable plastic/paper/foam items is unacceptable.  And when I got my water bill, he really got an ear full.  Using the dishwasher saves me several hundred gallons of water a month.  Plus, I don't wash by hand as well as the dishwasher does anyway.   Doing dishes by hand is not therapeudic for me at all.  Also with no rinse policy, I have less chance of accidentally dropping and breaking something, which can also happen with washing by hand. 
 
One thing I sure remember about the old dishwashers is how incredibly hot the dishes were at the end of drying cycle.  Bone dry and too hot to touch. Rinse aid not required!
 
Eddie: I am certainly sorry to hear your 10-month old Whirlpool has already had a failure, in part because I have the same (albeit portable) dishwasher! Except for the ungodly racket, I really like it. Cleans everything beautifully on the 1-hour cycle. I would imagine it's a bit quieter when installed undercounter.

As for washing by hand, regulars here will recall I hadn't planned to get a dishwasher upon moving to the apartment last summer. That notion didn't last long, LOL.
 
Eugene

I hope that you don’t have the same problem. Like is said before, I’ve had a dishwasher since 1987, and never had any operational problems until this one and the GE immediately before this one, The main complaint I had with my dishwashers before these last two was the coating on the racks wearing out and the racks rusting.

I agree with you about the one hour cycle, it works very well, at least when the dishwasher itself is working. I’ve absolutely no patience for these new DW’s with the 2 1/2 to 3 hr., or longer cycles.

I recall how you weren’t crazy about doing dishes by hand when you moved to your apt. I’m surprised that this hasn’t been a problem for me. Even the Easter dishes, with company wasn’t a hassle. I had them all done in less than 20 mins, and put away. Normally I find everyday dinner dishes can be done in about 10 mins, including putting them away. I use rubber gloves with full on hot tap water and don’t get burnt. The dishes are dry by the time I’ve finished stacking the rinsed dishes in the rack and draining the dishwater and cleaning the sink. I quick hit with a fresh dishtowel and they’re ready to put away.

I grew in a home with out a dishwasher and never lived in a home with one until I was 36 years old,so its not a foreign process for me. When we got our first place with a DW we felt like Wezzie and George Jefferson, move’n on up!

I may eventually change my mind about doing the dishes by hand, but in the meantime I’m strangely enjoying it, maybe it reminds me of being young again, LOL. When life hands you lemons make that lemonade, as the saying goes.
Eddie
 
I prefer vintage for its aesthetic, variety, ingenuity and imagination. Now all modern products look generic. The designs are all based on computer generated templates, shared engineering and technology platforms and whatever unimaginative cosmetic flourishes are added by the product design teams - they are about as exciting as a cup of cold milky tea with that fatty skin floating on top. We live in the age of UGLY uniformity. It permeates all of society right from the top down to the lowest of the low human life forms. We pay accolades to mediocrity and reward the talentless. One only has to look at music, art, fashion, entertainment and politics and there we have the sum of this great repository of centuries of human imagination, experiences and endeavours being reduced to rationalist economics, where everything is focused on increasing profits over all else. Even freedom and democracy. These are very sad and dangerous times. If current trends continue to flourish, we will all end up living in a world of monochromatic minimalism - drab and nasty. We'll all just be little grey mice turning the wheels of a global economy that feeds the indulgences of the ueber rich.
 
I'm sorry to hear about ea56 problem with the 10 month old Whirlpool as I have that exact same dishwasher and I love it. This is one of the first newer dishwashers I've had that really cleans dishes fairly quietly in a timely manner. This one replaced a Maytag Quiet II that was a disaster and a GE before that which never worked properly from the first day. Funny though this one is just coming up to the 10 month mark...eeek. If you do decide to get it repaired or Whirlpool comes to the rescue (doubtful) please let us know how it turns out.
 
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