if you had to chose a dishwasher today what would you go with modern or vintage

[lordkenmore]

I don't care if it's vintage or modern, as long as it is quiet (below 45 dB).

 

There is value in a quiet dishwasher. It's something I might like long term. But the first dishwasher I used was noisy (it was probably low end builder's grade). Yet, I didn't mind the noise, even though it was quite audible in the next room, where I might be watching a movie. I possibly didn't mind the noise partly because it was a reminder that a machine was doing that tiresome pile of dishes, and not me! But long term, I suppose that noise could have gotten tiresome. (I only lived with that dishwasher a few months before I moved on.)

 

[ea56]

In 1962 when I was 11 years old my family moved into a beautiful home that was built in 1956. It had a Westinghouse all electric built in kitchen, in a brushed copper finish, except the stove top was brushed SS, with a dishwasher that pulled out, just like the GE’s of that vintage. My Mom used it 2 or 3 times before it started to leak, and never used it again. My parents had spent a lot moving into the new home, and hadn’t sold the old one yet so with two mortgages spending any extra dollars on getting the DW repaired was not considered. Then in less than 2 mos. after we moved into that home my Dad was killed suddenly in an auto accident and getting the DW fixed was the least of our problems. What you don’t know you don’t miss.

But Mom had wanted a DW for some time. I recall for Christmas in 1959 Dad bought her a mink stole, they were all the rage then. She was disappointed because she had really wanted a DW, go figure! She lived her whole life without one, save the few days that Westinghouse worked before it started to leak. And I never remember her complaining about not having a DW, except Christmas 1959.

But then again, she had the three of us kids as her dishwashers as long as we were still at home, and every holiday until she passed away the three of us still always did the dishes after dinner. Old habits die hard.

Eddie

 

[lakewebsterkid]

LordKenmore...

I can't believe that you don't have a dishwasher. Even a portable?! You need to treat yourself and find a good one! There absolutely is value in a quiet dishwasher, especially where ours is located. The kitchen is in the middle of our house. The old Whirlpool was not quiet. The Bosch is silent except for the dishes moving around inside and during draining. I have never had a dishwasher that could actually move the dishes enough to cause them to make noise. Incredible.

 

[ultralux88]

Moving dishes is a good sign I feel. A good friend of mine has a Bosch dishwasher, and you’re right, one time I didn’t even know it was running until I heard a soft clink come from inside...

I find using the machine to be therapeutic, the fun of trying to fit everything in there and still have it come out clean, pushing the buttons/turning the dial... But most of all the sound of it running, the humming of the motor, the woosh of the water, clinking dishes and rattling silverware. It’s much like a washing machine and it’s noises. I guess to me that’s why I don’t always like quiet dishwashers, I feel I’m being robbed somehow of the experience of the machine running.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"the sound of it running..."

I prefer the constant consistent sound of an older machine, where both spray arms are always operating.

The recent basic Bosch of my parents' spends about 5 mins on the bottom basket and 1.5 minutes on the top basket. It is acceptable.

My 14/15 year old machine spends 50 seconds per basket, with 5-10 secs spent slowing down and switching the diverter valve. This is just plain irritating. And perhaps worse, the motor speed slows down to very slow at certain stages of the cycle. Then sometimes, it starts to wash a basket, stalls seconds into it to 'recalculate time', then decides to switch to the other basket!

I had read other people's experiences with my model, which were as equally scathing. The folk went onto buy a basic Bosch (similar to my parents' model), which whilst noisier, cleaned rings around the previous expensive machine.

I suppose, in a way, I'm willing my machine to die. Knowing my luck, it'll last another 15 years!

 

[superocd]

I'm kind of torn on this...

I gotta have stainless, and I like the plain, simplistic look of my hidden-control Whirlpool. While the wash performance is mostly good, I'm just thinking that the fish-tank pump will be short lived. The pump rotor is encased in plastic, shrouded by the stator. Very puny looking. Not the 25-lb boat anchor motor we are accustomed to. I've had it for a couple years though, no problems yet.

I remember taking it out of the box and seeing the pump assembly beneath the machine--I was so stunned at what I saw that I was very close to taking it back. I was thinking, no way Jose, but I thought that I'd give it a try since I had 30 days to return it if I didn't like it. Besides, every other manufacturer had similar designs I'm sure, so it would be self defeating to turn it in. It worked pretty good the first load, but I was still concerned about the durability aspect.

I may be wrong, this thing may still run 15+ years from now, but I'm not counting on it. At least the repair is quick and easy if and when it fails, the entire pump assembly is just one unit that you can pull out from the tub from what I've gathered. My wife, who is a talented medical professional (RN) but not so mechanically inclined could probably do this with no problem.

That said, I would love the durability/performance of something like a Potscrubber, a Hobart KA or a WP Powerclean. Each of those had forceful wash systems none too shy with the water usage and had real motors.

Besides mismatched aesthetics, the only other thing that would hold me back would be the fact that parts for the KA and Potscrubber may be somewhat or mostly NLA, and a few years from now I'm sure it would be the same issue with the Powerclean. Oh, I don't think my wife would take bringing in a relic too kindly. Therefore I'd have to go with the modern machine.

 

[lordkenmore]

I can't believe that you don't have a dishwasher. Even a portable?! You need to treat yourself and find a good one!

 

I don't have a portable. Or even a countertop dishwasher.


 

I considered--seriously--getting a portable not long after I left the last place I lived that had a dishwasher. I had trouble, though, in finding something reasonably cheap on the used market. I theorized that portables are relatively rare now--built in dishwashers are so common now--and so they could command higher prices in market for those unfortunate sorts like me who needed a portable.

 

During that period, I did see a countertop dishwasher that was in my price range in a thrift shop. But they had no returns allowed policy, and no guarantee that the thing worked. The price was too high for a gamble.

 

I even gave some thought to getting a regular dishwasher, and somehow making it work. Perhaps make it into a portable. Perhaps just do a crude installation.

 

Part of me still fantasizes about a dishwasher...but my current kitchen would not work without work/expense...which I'm not in a position to deal with at this time.

 

I suppose the good thing--if/when I have a dishwasher again, I'll appreciate it more...

 

 

 

[iowabear]

As a single man I could easily live without one.  I like having one, but I only run it once-a-week unless I have dinner guests which doesn't happen often.

 

I do cook for myself most of the time, but it's always simple crock-pot or single pan affairs.

 

I do like that the dishwasher uses super-hot water and in theory gets dishes cleaner than hand-washing.  But I know that's not really a valid concern because I grew up without a dishwasher (the dishwasher was often me, LOL) and I did a terrible job most of the time.  Nobody got sick or died from my poor hand washing!

 

 

 

 

 

[lordkenmore]

I do cook for myself most of the time, but it's always simple crock-pot or single pan affairs.

 

The most I ever do these days is simple one pot meal. I can't even honestly remember the last time I did anything the least bit ambitious.

 

In a way, it's actually sort of funny that I whine about dish drudgery, and how much I wish I had a dishwasher, given that I don't generate very many dishes living alone, and having simple meals.

 

Meanwhile, I never really gave doing dishes by hand much thought at the end of my mother's life. Back then, I was cooking for more than one. I was also cooking more elaborate meals then. And I used more dishes when we actually ate than I use now. And I didn't miss a dishwasher. Handwashing was the only approach I really knew, and I guess I worked on biases my mother had. She did not like dishwashers--she thought they broke dishes--and there may have been "we won't generate enough dishes in a meal to make it worth running a dishwasher, anyway!" argument.

 

Although, in favor of a dishwasher, if I had one, I might be more willing to do more complicated meals more often now. Also one can argue that it might take only a few minutes to wash up dishes--but that adds up. And it seems unlikely I'll cook for others until I have a dishwasher to deal with my currently non-existent Royal Doulton with handpainted periwinkles china.

 

[lordkenmore]

I do like that the dishwasher uses super-hot water and in theory gets dishes cleaner than hand-washing.  But I know that's not really a valid concern because I grew up without a dishwasher (the dishwasher was often me, LOL) and I did a terrible job most of the time.  Nobody got sick or died from my poor hand washing!

 

I like the idea of cleaner dishes, too, although I guess I also recognize that we've hand washed dishes for most of human history and gotten by just fine.


 

Although I suppose there  may be people who have some health issue or other that makes it desirable having dishes sanitized, which is easier to do with a dishwasher.

 

 

[ultralux88]

WE lived without a dishwasher for a few months while between houses during a move, we survived, but what I remember most was Mom taking a pot of boiling water and pouring it over the dishes after she rinsed them, she’d set the drying rack down in one side of the sink and load it with dishes and then scalding them with boiling water. I remember asking her why she was doing this and she said that washing them by hand doesn’t disinfect the dishes effectively since you can’t put your hands in water as hot as the dishwasher uses, so this was necessary to sanitize everything.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Reasons for using a dishwasher

A European University once did a study (possibly in Germany), where they dragged folk in off the street and forced them to wash dishes by hand; foreign visitors included. (Ethically, they actually asked people if they'd participate in the study).

Anyway, a variety of hand-dishwashing detergents, scrubbers, mops, sponges were made available, and the conscripted employees were told to wash the dishes as they would at home. This was compared to the use of a dishwasher.

The results varied according to the person washing the dishes. Some folk washed, but didn't rinse; others left the hot tap running the whole time, wasting gallons of water. Someone else put a dollop of detergent in individual glassware. I think the most frugal was the person who filled the second sink with hot water for rinsing, and precisely measured the detergent into the first sink.

The result was that a dishwasher uses resources more consistently, and uses substantially less than most people. Also, the level of hygiene is higher when using the dishwasher.

 

[lordkenmore]

Ethically, they actually asked people if they'd participate in the study

 

But it's more amusing to think of a possibility of researchers kidnapping people off the street, and holding them at gun point while they wash dishes...

 

[lordkenmore]

The result was that a dishwasher uses resources more consistently, and uses substantially less than most people. Also, the level of hygiene is higher when using the dishwasher.

 

None of this is really surprising. We've heard one or more of these points for years. The use of resources seems pretty obvious--all you have to do is think of how much water a dishwasher uses, and then think of how much water you'd use to wash a dishwasher load full of dishes.

 

Yet, it's interesting that some people still resist dishwashers. I have to wonder if there aren't people who still consider dishwashers "wasteful." Otherwise, why would there still be announcements about dishwashers using resources more frugally than handwashing?

 

I think the most frugal was the person who filled the second sink with hot water for rinsing

 

A neighbor apparently did the second sink basin for rinsing trick when I was growing up. I think I learned of it when one of the girls in the family was my babysitter once. I recall my father trying that trick--maybe I pushed him into it. (This would have probably been the late 1970s, when energy saving was a big thing.) In any case, he went back to running water for rinsing, which suggests the sink of rinse water trick didn't work well for him.

 

[ea56]

It is entirely possible to be both hygienic and conservative washing dishes by hand.

First of all, use good rubber gloves. This way I can use fully hot tap water at 125 F without burning my hands. This is the same temp that my DW would be using.

Secondly, I fill the wash sink with probably 3 gals of hot water with the dish soap, put the silverware on the bottom of the sink, stack the plates on top, and then the glasses and cups. I wash the glasses first, then the plates, next the silverware, placing all the washed items in the other side of the sink. Then I wash the pots, pans, serving bowls,ect. and place them on top of the rest of the already washed dishes.

Then, turn on the hot water in a slow stream and begin rinsing. This way the rinse water is pouring over all the already washed dishes in the sink, rinsing them too. As I rinse each piece I place it in the dish drainer. I doubt that I use any more that 2 gals of hot water to rinse this way, if that much. I am always very cognizant of how much hot water I’m using, we are all electric and I know very well how expensive it is to run the hot water. I would never leave the hot water running full force the entire time I’m washing and rinsing.

I next drain the wash water, clean out both sinks and wipe down the sink and faucet to prevent water spots. By the time I finish this the dishes are for the most part already dry from the heat of the hot rinse water. So I only have to do a light drying with a clean dish towel.

This whole process takes maybe 10 mins on a regular day for the dinner dishes, and this includes putting away the leftovers.

What I find so interesting about the exchanges on this thread is that some people are so concerned about the conservation of water and energy and maintain that using a dishwasher uses less of both. This only true though if you use one of the newer DW’s, the old DW’s use way more water and energy, and they do a much better job cleaning too.

Yet on many of the threads about HE automatic washing machines many members loudly decry the lack of abundant hot water in modern HE TL’s. So, in the end its really all about what you personally find important and how you want to do your own laundry and dishes.

I knew when I posted that I surprisingly found that I enjoy the process of hand washing dishes I was going to crack hell wide open here, LOL. But I also like to do laundry with a wringer washer too. I would do this too, but our home just doesn’t have the proper set up to do this. The kitchen is a small, efficiency condo kitchen, no room for a wringer there. The dedicated laundry area is a closed with bifold doors, no place for a tub for rinsing. And the bathroom with the tub is configured in such a way that I can’t use a wringer at the bathtub either. Believe me, I have given this some thought.

Eddie

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Right now dishwashers have improved considerably in the case of my Maytag over-coming the unreliable '90's-junk, the disposable quality of the '80's product, where you STILL had to pre-wash/rinse off your dishes, and the chintzy '70's stuff, that was rapidly filling up the landfills no matter what make you settled for, or had to put up your hard-earned money to...

It cleans, everything fits & with exception of a flood of water leaking from it, of which pressing the Cancel/Drain provided a remedy of a problem still of unknown origin, it still has yet to break down!

-- Dave

 

[rolls_rapide]

American Kitchen Sinks...

I am always amazed by the fact that US kitchen sinks have no integral draining board.

 

[rapunzel]

"I am always amazed by the fact that US kitchen sinks have no integral draining board. "

That's a good question. They used to a very long time ago. Maybe when kitchen sinks became integrated into countertops it was decided that drain boards take up too much space. Perhaps drain boards did not fit in with contemporary design aesthetics and, perhaps, their omission was meant to encourage consumers to buy a dishwasher?

Overflows in kitchen and bathroom sinks are another thing that doesn't seem to be a standardized feature. In Europe I've never seen a sink without one. In Australia they are as rare as hens' teeth. I've never lived in a place that had an overflow in any sink or bathtub. I don't recall it being a standard feature with American sinks and tubs either, but they do exist more commonly than here in Oz.

 

[ea56]

Olav,,

I’ve seldom seen a bathtub without an overlow. Same with most bathroom sinks. Now all these new vessel sinks don’t have overflows, but every bathroom sink I’ve ever used in my whole life has had an overflow, ditto bathubs. Now to have the same thing in a kitchen sink would be nice, but that I’ve never seen here in th USA. I did however live in an old apartment about 46 years ago, and it had an intergrated drain board with the kitchen sink, and it was a great setup.

Eddie

 

[rapunzel]

Hi Eddie,

You know better than I. I haven't been back for a long while.

When I lived over there I was very young and did not pay all that much attention. However, at my grandparents' place I distinctly remember there not being an overflow built into the bathroom sink. Their house was constructed in the mid-fifties and had a turquoise green enamel basin with the aluminum border. There was definitely no overflow, because I flooded their bathroom. Their double kitchen sink I am not so sure about, it was in the same style as the bathroom basin with the metal trim. I never flooded my grandmother's kitchen, but her 1954 Kenmore dishwasher did in the mid-eighties, when the inlet hose sprung a leak. That was the last time she used a dishwasher in her house.