Imperial by Hobart Kitchenaid dishwasher is flooding

[Anne]

When we moved in to our house 10 years ago, we kept an KDI-16 (1983) Imperial by Hobart dishwasher hooked up, We have only used it about 20 times as we have another dishwasher which is more conveniently located. It worked beautifully until I used it at Thanksgiving....At that time, it was making a lot of noise and then water started gushing out....I had to remove the water in the bottom by hand. There were no blockages in the drain, but beyond that, I have no idea what has happened....Might it be the pump?
I want to try to fix this but cannot get an appliance repairman to come out on such an old model...
Any ideas???

 

[stevet]

Does the motor run at all?

Anne,
There could be a few things wrong with the machine to cause this problem behavior!
Does the pump motor run at all? Does the timer knob advance thru the cycle?
Can you hear the characteristic snap sound of the drain valve opening to let the water out? Does the water stop filling the machine?

Starting backwards and assuming the motor runs, remove the lower panel and see if you have the blue colored drain valve located on the left hand side of the front crossmember. If you do, then you can turn the pump on and manually engage the lift mechanism for the valve and the unit should drain out. You can get replacement drain valves either online or from one of us on the forum.

If the water stops, then the water level pressure switch is doing its job and the fill valve is okay.

What you problably did when opening and closing the door when there was so much water in the tank, was to introduce cold, dense air into the tank and when you closed the door and the machine ran again, it would blow water out the door and on to the floor.

Let's find out what the machine IS doing and go from there.
We will get you thru this.
Steve

 

[Anne]

Imperial by Hobart flooding problem

Hi Steve,
Thank you so much for stepping in to help! It has taken me a few days to have the courage to try to run the dishwasher again...
First of all---I assume the pump does work as the dishwasher fills up with enough water (to then flood) and one can hear the characteristic thump of the arm going around. Also the dial does progress through the cycle. I know this as the other day I started it up where I had stopped it 6 weeks ago when it flooded. The dishwasher sprayed some water (inside) and then went through the dry cycle as the dial moved appropriately.
We took off the panel and looked inside. There is a copper line going into the middle with a rubber pipe running out. We did not see a blue colored valve on the left side of the cross member. The only colored plastic was a turquoise green covering a mechanism that only had electric wires attached to it.
Tonight, I tried to run the full cycle with the same result as six weeks ago.
After the initial clicking, the dishwasher filled and the washing began. After five, or so, minutes, the water started gushing out the front. A gallon had poured out by the time I turned the machine off...
So...I am happy to bail the tub out again (have not opened the door yet) but am hoping to find out where the problem lies.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts....
By the way, is this machine so different from the ones built in the last 25 years that a plumber or appliance person wouldn't be able to fix it?
Thanks, Anne

 

[rp2813]

" is this machine so different"

Well, for build quality, it absolutely is --far superior -- but otherwise it's a very straight-forward, tried and true design.

 

The issue is more about parts availability than the machine's age or design.  A lazy repairman who lacks any sense of dedication will be quick to advise you it's not worth fixing and to replace the machine. 

 

"Pay no attention to the man behind the access panel!"

 

[stevet]

drain valve

Anne, can you take a quick picture of what you see with the panel removed and post it here? The turquoise item should be the drain valve and you can operate it manually to drain the machine while the pump is running. It should have a "t" shaped device that moves up and down in a coil. It should move up when the machine should drain and if it doesn't, then the coil is bad. But like I said, you should be able to pull it up with your fingers and the machine will drain.

Then we have to get you a new valve so you can keep this gem running for another 20-30 years!

 

[Anne]

diagnosing the flooding issue on KDI 16 by Hobart 1of 4

Thanks for your comments and offer to help, guys!
I took a couple of pictures but am not sure how to include them.
I have four pictures but don't see how to include them all so I will post this same message four time with the different pictures. Sorry that the pictures are all sideways...I am not very savvy about any of this stuff...
Let me know if you can make anything of them.

BTW--I don't think the link leads to anything...

http://04@imperial by Hobart Kitchenaid [email protected]

 

[Anne]

Picture 2 of 4 on KDI-16 by Hobart

By the way, I could find nothing that fit the description of a coil on the drain valve....

 

[Anne]

picture 3 of 4 KDI-16 by Hobart

Here is a picture of the workings...

 

[Anne]

picture 4 of 4 of KDI-16 by Hobart

Again, I don't see any drain valve. But, on the other hand, I have never looked at the electrical/plumbing works of a dishwasher before.
I am afraid to turn the dishwasher back on as water gushes out when I do. Even if there was a way to manually operate the valve, I would be afraid of being electrocuted with my hand underneath and water pouring into the area with the electrical works...

 

[maytaga806]

Check your pump, door seals, motor and float.

 

[maytaga806]

Usaully when it drains it sounds different then when its washing. so it could be a bad drain inpeller

 

[bendixmark]

kdi-16

That machine is in beautiful shape I would cetainly fix that.I have two customers who have that machine and I repaired it for them.That last picture shows the drainvalve.You should hear a pronounced click when it energizes.The valve is the one with the rubber hose attached to it which is the drainhose.You could take that off and blow through it to make sure it isnt clogged.

 

[bogo]

Wow

Beautifull !

 

[pdub]

Also sometimes the drain hose gets clogged if it's connected to a garbage disposer. Turn off power to the dishwasher at your breaker box first. Then you can disconnect the drain hose at the solenoid (having a large bowl/bucket and plenty of towels ready) and try blowing through it. If it's clogged you'll know it. They usually clog where the hose connects to the disposer inlet under the sink. It can be messy but disconnecting the hose and cleaning out this port may solve the problem if there isn't a problem with the drain solenoid.

Best of luck.

Patrick

 

[DADoES]

 

 

[toploader55]

That's a Beauty

Oh Yeah, No question fixable.

 

[combo52]

Flooding KA KDI-16 DW

You either have an inlet valve that is sticking open [ does water ever still keep flowing into the DW from half way up the left side of the tank when you open the door when the machine is running and overflowing ? ] and or an overfill protector pressure switch that is clogged or broken. KD-16 DWs do not have a turquoise drain valve that can be activated manually, your drain valve is the nylon thing in the middle underneath with the black coil on top with two wires attached.

 

Other things that may be causing the flooding are, Timer not advancing [ the DW should only fill for about one minute ] and you could in addition to the bad over fill pressure switch problem have a restricted drain [ partial clog ] or a bad drain impeller in the pump.

 

The best way to get something like this fixed is to call an independent appliance repair company that has been in business for at 25 years or more. Be sure to tell them how old the DW is and supply the model# and ask them if they are experienced and willing to fix an older DW. Many parts are no longer available for this DW, but with the help of this group we can help you most anything you will need to fix the DW, but sure to tell the repair company that you will be willing to track down any parts if they either do not have them or can not get them. Good Luck   John.

 

[Gilles8000]

Timer

I remember my Aunt having a dishwasher just like this.

The Rinse hold consisted of Half fill purge which lasted 1 minue and drain
Then it would go into a Full Fill purge which lasted 2 ,inutes and then stop filling, rinse, and drain...lasted 10 minutes. There was a 2 minutes pause in there before it would drain.

Full Cycle...1/2 Fll Purge lasted one minute
5 full fill prges...and each time it does it would fill 2 gallons of water.

Soak Cycle was the smae as the Full Cycle except that after the 2nd fill the dishes would wash for 1 minute and stop for 13 minutes and restart again automactially and during that time it would loosen some of the real stick foods.

Combo 52, I have the book in front of me, and was reading the timer specifications.

The Rinse Hold, lasted 10 minutes and timer will advance to the off position. another 50 minutes and no more rinsing action is done and it used 3.2 gallons of water.

The Full Cycle used 12 gallons of water and lasted 60 minutes including drying phase.

The Soak Cycle used 12 gallons of water and lasted for 73 minutes including drying phase.

The Kitchenaid 16 series were built 1967-1969. The model you have is a Hurricane in a box. Heavy and would last for more years to come.

 

[zippyjet]

KDI-16 (1983)?

Hi, maybe I'm misreading this thread but, this Imperial looks like a very early 1970's model. By 1983 all KA front loaders had the upper wash arm with the "China Guard." Also the detergent dispenser is the older Hobart design. KA dishwashers from 1972 onward had the updated aqua oval soap dispenser. Good luck with your DW it's a classic and when you fix this problem it will be like the Energizer Bunny and keep going and going...

 

[zippyjet]

Forgot to captain my photo above

This is the newer Hobart detergent dispenser. One of Whirlpool's big mistakes was getting rid of what I feel is the best detergent dispenser and replacing it with the run of the mill "El-Cheapo" Whirlpool design.

 

[combo52]

Hobart Designed Detergent Dispensers

Were an ok design at the time but had MANY problems, because their Bi-Metal actuators were wired in series with the main motor they would not always open reliably if the wash filter was dirty, the water level was a little low, if the machine was foaming from certain protean foods etc. This dispenser design had lots of leaks into the inside of the door and because of the placement of the BM opener it could cause shorts, burned connections and sometimes even FIRES. The lids on these dispensers also did not seal their contents very well and they sometimes washed out too soon.

 

While NO manufacturer has made a perfect Det Dispenser for their DWs, the various dispenser designs that WP has built and used since the mid 1970s have been without all the above mentioned problems.

 

[jetcone]

my vote is

the sticking water valve overflowing the machine.

Lets see what we find.

 

[Anne]

Its the timer on the flooding KDI-16!

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and for encouraging me to do everything I can to find someone who would take a look at my beautiful Hobart (circa 1970) dishwasher.

Finally found a repairman who was not afraid to have a look. In fact when I called him and said that I had an older Kitchen Aid dishwasher that I was having trouble with, he excitedly asked, "Is it a Hobart?"

He has diagnosed the problem as a timer issue. Basically, the dishwasher fills up, washes and then, without draining, goes into another filling cycle (rinse?)? He was able to get it to drain by fiddling with something....Anyway, I need a replacement timer for a KDI-16. The original part # was 4170701, later updated to Part # 160484.

Should I do a separate posting asking for this post.

Many thanks,

 

[Anne]

Just spoke to Larry at Modern Parts House in Cleveland. He said that those part numbers are not correct. He has the timers for KDI-16 that do not have the soak cycle. My model does have a soak cycle.....

 

[rp2813]

Keep an eye out on ebay.  New-in-box parts like this have been known to surface there.

 

I also think you have the right idea about starting a new thread with a heading about what you're looking for.  Someone here may have exactly what you need.

 

[chachp]

Check this auction...

..you may want to email this seller and see if he has what you need.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120784737150?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

[chachp]

Another one..

Anne, here is another one you may want to check out. Looks like he has some timers for the older machines but I wasn't sure of the actual part number for yours. I have a KDS-17a and he had an upper spray arm (a new one) for mine which was a real surprise. He actually had multiples of them so it's worth a shot.

Ralph

http://stores.ebay.com/kitchenguysappliance

 

[combo52]

Flooding KA KDI-16 DW

Anne glad you are on the way to getting your DW fixed, be sure when you get a timer and are having it installed that the service guy fixes the overfill control switch, usually the metal tube in the sump is just clogged with rust, but in some cases the pressure switch is bad. If the overfill control is working these DWs should never flood unless the inlet valve mechanically sticks open.

 

I checked my parts inventory and found a new timer for the KDI-16 Non Soak cycle model. I suspect that the non soak timer would work but you would lose the soak feature and a wire may have to be jumped so the DW would not stall near the beginning of the cycle.