in an electric oven on "bake" mode, does only the LOWER heating rod activate, or both lower/upper??

[turquoisedude]

I remember the Canadian Hotpoint ranges of the 1970s vaunted their 'golden touch baking' which I will guess sent some power to the upper element (broil element) while in bake mode... However our family never owned one.

 

But I suspect that the 60s GE wall oven we had at the country house in the Eastern Townships had an upper element running at lower power while in the 'bake' setting.   I am sure the 1956 GE oven in the current Kitchen Centre in Ogden has this, too. 

 

Funny but I also remember my mother telling me that the 1957 Frigidaire Super range that I learned to cook on had to be first turned to 'Broil' then back to the desired oven temperature to get the oven into 'preheat mode'...  I also remember that when we got the 1974 Baycrest (Westinghouse-built) range, that this process would have simply engaged the broil element to cycle off at the temperature selected and thus ruined the cakes my late mother attempted to bake in that oven!!

 

 

[arbilab]

My last 2 GEs-- 30 and 15yo respectively-- run the upper element on 120V for all 'bake' operations.

 

[passatdoc]

test

I tried heating the upper oven to 350 F last night. It did so, and the indicator light went out (I didn't have an oven thermometer to verify temp) after about 20 minutes. I think it used to take 12-15 mins to heat to 350 F. It looks as if the oven can eventually reach 350 F given extra time. They don't bake with it much. Most of the use would be in covered containers (reheating; roasting in a covered roaster) which hopefully will still work ok even with the upper burner not responding.

I checked during heat-up and the upper element did not engage at all (cold to the touch). So if it indeed is supposed to be working at half or quarter wattage during heat-up, it isn't working at all. Fortunately, the smaller size of the oven may mean that the lower unit can still heat it to set temp. They don't bake a lot, so hopefully the lack of "even heat" (upper coil not working) isn't the end of the world for them. The main issue was, with Thanksgiving approaching, do we have to get a repair service out there right away, and thankfully it seems as if we don't need to do so. (they are 60 miles south of me).

 

[william637]

The opinions of others are interesting on this thread

I am actually surprised to hear that people like the broil element coming on for a "bake" setting. I can't stand it.

My current range is a TOL Fridgidaire induction/hyrbrid cooktop with convection oven. No matter what oven function you use, the broil element is always cycled on and off. For some things, it doesn't matter (like flat items on a cookie sheet which are far away from the broil element). For roasting, it is a nightmare. The first time we used it for a Thanksgiving dinner the top of the turkey was burnt before we realized what was going on.

Harold (my better half) can cook in any kitchen and under any circumstance, and I have only heard him complain more about just one oven out of the hundreds he has used in his career. When we have a big dinner at the house now he only uses the oven for a final re-heat. He either cooks everything at his shop and brings it over, or he will bring over his gas-fired Blodgett convection oven. That oven is a pain in the ass to move and set up, but is an amazingly good piece of equipment.

 

[tomturbomatic]

William, you can put a small cookie sheet on a rack in the top position of the oven to shield your food from the death rays of the broiler. Did you have service come out and check the oven to see if it is operating properly? With the way the upper and lower elements are cycled separately in some ranges, something could be wrong. You can also tent the turkey to prevent over browning/over cooking of the breast which could be as much a fault of the convection as the broiler unit.

 

[combo52]

Electric Ovens With Top Heat

Nearly all electric ovens built over the last 50-60 years have had top heat [ broiler on at 120 volts or 1/4 wattage whenever the bake element is on ] and these ovens were the ones that were widely regarded as the best cooking and baking ovens.

This list includes Westinghouse, Hotpoint, GE, Frigidaire, Kelvinator, Estate, Gibson, Caloric, Corning, Chambers and many many more.

There and have been many Electric ovens that did not have top heat during bake, some of these ovens let you turn on the broiler during pee-heat which might help some with top browning. Most of the makers that did not give you TH during baking were usually Gas range builders trying to get into the growing electric range market and several manufacturers of cheap and compact apartment sized ranges such as Brown Stove Works and Vesta.

Jim your parents can use their top oven for baking without the top heat but they should be cautious doing so. It will be more likely to burn foods on the bottom and not brown items. For this reason be sure to pee-heat the oven before placing food in the oven, they should also use a higher shelf position so the heat has more room to even out in the oven and be sure not to use too large a cookie sheet [ or cover the rack with aluminum foil ] in the oven as this could trap the bake elements heat near the bottom of the oven and cause the inner door glass to shatter.

 

[frigilux]

My 2002 Frigidaire utilizes both the upper and lower elements during baking. The screen on console shows when and for how long each element cycles on and off. As John said, it ensures even baking and browning.

I can put two 12-portion muffin tins side by side in the electric oven and achieve perfectly baked results. Do the same in my gas oven and the bottoms burn before the center is done. The two large muffin tins leave little room for air movement, and since heat comes only from the bottom, it builds up under the pans and causes burning. Using the convection option helps overcome this problem, but results are still not as good as with the electric.

One of several reasons I prefer electric ovens.

 

[countryguy]

I have a Kenmore range which alternates between the upper and lower element when in the pre-heat mode (the display shows them switching on and off). Once the preset temperature is reached then only the lower element is used. When convection bake is used then only the lower element cycles on and off with the fan running constantly. When convection roast is selected, there is a 3rd element on the back wall that is used presumably to enhance the browning. Using convenction bake I can have a sheet of cookies or muffines on each of the 3 shelves and they all come out perfectly.

Gary

 

[suburbanmd]

This discussion leads right to a baking question, if I may. I regularly bake a batch of four 2 lb. loaves of white whole wheat raisin bread, in an electric oven. It's a new GE induction range that John L. installed a couple of years ago. I put the loaf pans side-by-side at the front of a shelf, which is positioned in the middle. So far so good, but now I want to increase production by 50% because our daughter has moved back. Is it better to: 1) Put the two extra pans at the back of the middle shelf, near the fan, or 2) Distribute the pans across two shelves, which of course means coming closer to the floor of the oven and to the top coil?

Jay

 

[passatdoc]

combo52 agree

I believe there are five shelf positions, we will most likely use only #2-3. I agree re: allowing oven to preheat (and wait for indicator light to go out) before adding food. Most of what they would use in the oven is in covered baking dishes (reheating food) or casseroles, or baked goods that don't really require browning. If browning is required, the lower oven still has both elements going.

 

[suburbanmd]

Bump

Any advice appreciated, thank you.

 

[nmassman44]

In my experience with electric ranges and I have used Hotpoint, GE, Whirlpool and KitchenAid, the upper elements do cycle on and off...I have seared my knuckles too many times to count on the upper elements...when I think I have cleared them, I find out nope I have not! Its gas ranges that I have used except for the one I have now, that only use the lower burner. My year old GE gas range uses both bake and broil burners during bake mode. If I use convection bake it will use just the lower burner and a lower speed fan that also pulses. This gas oven performs alot like an electric one and the results I get are nothing short of excellent.
I cant imagine an electric oven just using the lower element since to me thats not "balanced heat" and thats how one gets good browning on cakes, meats and whatever else one decides to cook.
The GE I have heats up rather quickly, it can reach the target temp in about 9 mins when set at 350. My Bosch on the other hand...more like 25 mins to target temp and had a temp swing of close to 50 degrees before the burner would kick back on. The GE has a tighter temp swing of 10 degrees. It cycles the bake burner on first. Then the burner shuts off and it will call for the broiler to kick on for about 25 seconds...enough to heat the plate and radiate it downward. this is the first gas range I have ever used that does this. and it will cycle like this until I say its done. I can hear in the control panel a popping when it cycles. The Bosch never made a sound.

 

[DADoES]

 
Display graphics on my electric GE Profile.

The lower element is under the oven floor.

Regular Bake = lower element + upper at low output, relays click frequently in the panel as the elements cycle on/off.
Low Broil = upper element at medium output
High Broil = upper element at maximum output

 

[DADoES]

 
Convection modes.  The circulation fan reverses direction every minute or so, with a brief pause between reverses.  The animated fan blade graphic reverses with the direction change.

Convection Multi Rack = 3rd rear element with fan
Convection Single Rack = regular bake configuration with fan
Convection Roast = upper element at maximum output with fan

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

I've only seen lower elements "Bake" and uppers "Broil", however, in my sister's old Whirlpool built-in oven, (which she'd long-replaced) I do remember the upper element (which was a series of squiggly Ni-chrome wires) cycling on and off, and I'm sure that the oven WAS baking, and not broiling...

The oven was reportedly not well-connected, according to my sister when she got a new one, a Maytag with Convection cooking... And judging from the way the upper elements seemed to be arc-ing, that seemed to be the case...

I've seen the upper, and lower elements at work during a self-cleaning cycle, azt least in an electric range, while in my case range, only the lower, baking "heat port", if that's what you call it, goes on... The broiler on top, stays off...

And given the little broiling I ever do, it will be a while before the top of that oven ever gets messy, as much the baking has long-dirtied up the lower half of the oven... Especially when I spilled some rum glaze, that even made its way into the storage drawer, and under the bottom of my range... (Very messy!)

-- Dave

-- Dave

 

[passatdoc]

update

I tried out the oven over Labor Day weekend. The upper auxiliary oven, despite having a non-operative upper element, can reach 350F. Useful for baking/roasting in covered containers or rewarming on lower temps.

The lower oven, as things work out, has a broken thermostat. Both elements work but it won't shut off after reaching set temperature!!

As they live 60 miles away, they called an appliance repair service which is coming today to check things out. They figured if the service is coming out to fix two potential problems that will spread out the cost a little.

The other option was to replace with new, but I'd rather not because:

1. The 220V socket is from 1972. Most likely it would require updating to a modern three phase outlet.

2. Even if a new 30" range were installed, the upper oven would need replacement with an over the range microwave, and they would lose the upper oven (which they use most of all). THey have a small countertop microwave which they use now and then.

3. For safety, I'd want them to stick with coil units that they can see glowing red if left on. It's what they are used to.

4. Most ranges may have knobs for the burners but have electronic backsplash controls for the oven (didn't investigate slide ins but they could have electronic controls in front). I found one or two with a knob for the oven but mainly very low end units w/o self cleaning feature. They are in their mid-80s and I want to stick to what they're used to, for safety's sake. Replacing one heating element and one thermostat shouldn't cost a fortune and will be way cheaper than a new range plus electrician to change out 220V plus new microwave (which they rarely use) plus new backsplash (their tile backsplash does not extend behind the range backsplash).

 

[customline]

How about in older ovens...........

Did anyone experience the broil unit coming on during bake ? I have a '57 Hotpoint Customline and the broil comes on at half power (120 volts) during bake (240 volts). When on broil, the bake unit is off.

 

[passatdoc]

Oven update

Two repair companies came out and both said the ovens can't be repaired. It's likely that parts exist somewhere, but my parents in their 80s are not appliance hobbyists and their 1972 Hotpoint is not a collector's item. THey need something that works. Their first choice would be to have what they know (current range) repaired, but it can't be done easily and they need easy rather than a restoration project.

They'd like to replace it with a freestanding electric range with an over the range microwave---thus allowing them to give away their counter top microwave and free up some counter space. There are however some issues that go along with their request:

1. I don't trust my father re: setting the house on fire with burners he can't see (smooth top) so for safety we are looking at electric coils which he CAN see.

2. Oven needs to have KNOB control, not an electric control panel in back that they have trouble seeing/operating. Age 86 is not a good time to be forcing them to learn to operate something new, even if the world has since gone over to electronic controls.

3. Self clean preferred. Black or steel on black. A dual oven range would be nice (secondary oven in lieu of storage drawer) but to my knowledge these all require electronic oven controls rather than knobs, plus I couldn't find any models with coils, they're all smooth tops.

That said, I found several models among the GE, Frigidaire, and Whirlpool lines that have the above features. Also found over-the-range microwaves that would do the trick. That said, there are a few more issues:

4. We are not sure whether the existing range is hard-wired or whether there is a 1972-era 220V plug. If the former, they'll have to install an outlet. If the latter, it may have to be changed to 2014 configuration to accept a modern plug. We are resigned to the fact that this needs to be changed. The appliance store will do it for $100 if we purchase new range from them.

5. Here is the kicker: both upper and lower ovens worked off the 220V. We don't know whether there is also a 110V outlet behind the range. There are low wattage functions like lights and fan that likely run on 110V, but we're not sure whether there is a 110V outlet or whether internally the oven transforms the 220V power to 110V for use by the low-wattage applications. If it turns out there IS no 110V outlet and only a 220V, I"m guessing that an electrician could install a 110V when they rewire the 220V.

6. They have a tile backsplash that does NOT extend behind the range, it's just painted drywall. Assuming that the resulting bare wall above the new range and below the new microwave is an odd or irregular size, how hard is it to have a steel backsplash made? We know the space is 30" wide but don't yet know the height. Also, I think the tile may extend in behind the range an inch or so, so I won't know the exact width of the bare wall until the old range is removed.

7. Some of the microwave models I inspected on line had CFM ratings of 400. I was only aware of 200-300 CFM models. Does the extra 100 CFM make a difference in performance or is this just hype?

Thanks in advance for your guidance and suggestions. The appliance store they use has a reputation for restoring old appliances and possibly they may use it in their vintage showroom (Gormsen's Appliances, Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA).

One thing I just realized is that virtually no ovens now have electric clocks/timers. The microwave of course will have time display and a timer, but it'll take some time to train them how to use it and I know they'll miss their analog timer. [this post was last edited: 12/9/2014-09:41]

 

[mattl]

Well I would certainly get a micro convection oven for every day use. They'd get the benefits of a small easy to use upper oven with the full sized unit in the stove. I know codes vary, but 220 is 220, at most a plug can be placed on the end of the existing wire if needed, $15 part if you do it yourself, I have no idea of the cost to have it done. 110 is generally available, but a separate circuit is recommended for a microwave.

My dad was in his 90's with vascular dementia and had no problem using the microwave or the touch control oven. Your folks may be older but they should be able to handle a little learning curve.

As for the space above the new stove, can sme similar tile be found? If not tile it to make it look like it was intended to be that way. Do an inset with a design that compliments the kitchen. Got pictures?

 

[circlew]

You mentioned the double oven in lieu of storage drawer. Our church just purchased two GE ranges like this, and the main oven is nearly on the floor. Not convenient unless someone is very short. The controls are so complicated you'd think it was a rocket ship!