In search of the perfect old phono/radio

[sudsmaster]

I have some old 79's that came with this house, but I've never been able to listen to them. The saga is thusly,

My one working turntable is a wonderful Denon, very nice, but it only does 33 and 45.

In college (back in the 70's!), I bought a used KLH combination FM radio/automatic turntable that looks like luggage. It served me will for many years, but the amp blew a transistor and I haven't gotten around to fixing it. Of course, it does 78, but only if you want to put your ear to the tonearm.

I picked up a table-top Airline brand tube radio/phono about 15 years ago. Alas, the turntable and motor are missing. Tonearm is there. Never have gotten the thing to work, although I'm sure it's possible to get the radio portion to work.

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a late 40's/early 50's Sears Silvertone combination radio/phono/wire recorder console for a song. Beautiful cabinet. But there are zero tubes in the thing, no needle, no wire takeup spool, and it's another project that has limited signs of even getting started let alone getting completed. The turntable does have a certain Flash Gordon appeal, though.

A month or two ago I missed out on snagging a real early 50's Zenith radio/phono - automatic like Uni's but no TV (ok with me). Darn.

Tonight I saw two more Zenith's. One looks to be an early 50's, with a lid for the automatic turntable (78's only) and a wild radio tuner behind a front door. This thing has a magic eye that closes to reveal all the shortwave esoteric radio bands of the day. But the turntable doesn't work right, the tonearm is locked. It does turn, though.

I also saw a very special late 50's Zenith tube console; AM/FM radio, and Cobramatic turntable. That turntable is amazing, with a stroboscope and infinitely adjustable platter speeds. Again, the tonearm is screwed up (too much resitance) and the automatic function doesn't work right. The radio turner knob to dial string is broke or off track, and it sounds like a tube or two need replacing (that warbling sound). The cabinet is not at all to my taste - bleached antiqued blond oak - almost looks like a formica veneer, but it's real enough. Rattan screen over the speaker and the door covering the radio/phono section. Very Hawaii 5-0. 160 watts (including turntable), with tweeter and woofer, mono only, I bet it can really belt out some good sounds with that big tube amp. I've inclined to get it just for that wild turntable.

But I haven't decided on the two Zeniths. But I did pick up a portable field tube tester. It's way cool. I will try to upload a photo later on.

 

[48bencix]

Zenith

I found a 1971 Zenith Stereo Console. It has a Garrard changer which had the resistance with the arm. I took it out of the unit and partially dis-assembled it, lubed it and it works perfectly. Oh, it also has two screw pivots for the arm, both were missing. I found one in the case, after removing the back. The other never appeared, so I got a screw that matched, almost, and ground the end down to a point just by rubbing it on a file (with a pair of pliers).

So, if you want to do some work, you may get a great preforming unit. I also had to purchase some Radio Shack cleaner and spray it on the circuit board connectors, which solved another problem - sound from only one channel.

A lot of people prefer the Magnavox Astro Sonic units, but Zenith made a lot of good Consoles. The amp may need new capacitors and tubes, that's another story. With my Zenith (Solid State) I only need to worry about the capacitors, I guess.

Martin

 

[frontaloadotmy]

Rich

I sent you an email from mechimorph etc etc
Darrel

 

[whirlcool]

After they get old, and especially after sitting unused for years, the lubricants in turntables have a tendency to dry out and stiffen up. This can be bad enough to "freeze" the workings of the turntable. What usually happens is that when this occurs the owners of the turntables "help" them along, forcing the parts to move. This usually results in parts breaking and then hunting for replacements.
Usually cleaning off all the old lubricants with Isopropyl Alcohol and a Q-tip before relubricating will cure most problems of this type.
The best lubricants to use are the synthetic kind. I like to use 10W-30W synthetic motor oil and a product called "Slick 50" to lubricate turntable parts. On the "slick 50", I spray it into a small container and use a Q-Tip to apply. These type of lubricants don't solifify over time and last a lot longer. Plus you only use just a little, too much and you can actually cause problems.
Now where to use these different lubricants?

Center Spingle - 10W-30 Syntetic Oil
Motor Shaft - 10W-30W Synthetic Oil
Changer Shafts - A little Slick 50
Changer Bearings - White Lithium Grease the consistancy of
Vaseline, but don't use Vaseline

If you are looking for a nice turntable that will play 78's, take a look at some Dual turntables. These usually can be had for a reasonable price, and properly maintained, they last forever.

The Dual-Reference Website

Reference Website For Dual Turntables & Dual Audio Equipment

www.dual-reference.com

 

[maytagbear]

Why would

anyone in his right mind use Vaseline?

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[rp2813]

LMB, if it's a really old crank phonograph like a Victrola, the Victor Talking Machine Company recommended vaseline as a lubricant for certain components in the owner's manual but modern turntables are another story entirely.

 

[chad_hauris]

Personally I use grease very sparingly if at all...Zoom Spout oil seems to be the best lubricant for jukeboxes and turntables I have found. There is not much torque available in these mechanisms and gummy/hardened grease will cause them to jam.

Any tube type equipment will need capacitors and possibly wiring replaced to be reliable.

I have had a lot of success for playing 78's on a portable school record player (Audiotronics, Califone, Newcomb, etc.)

The best sound quality from 78's can be obtained by using a Shure or Stanton magnetic cartridge with 78 stylus in a 78-capable component turntable such as a Dual or Garrard. If you use an LP stylus on a 78 it will ride in the bottom of the groove and provide really thin nasty sound quality.

 

[sudsmaster]

Thanks for all the info. The Cobramatic also had a bad twhap as the turntable spun, which indicates to me there's a flat spot or even a chunk missing out of a rubber pulley somewhere in there.

 

[sudsmaster]

OH, and in the course of researching all this, I leanred that the KLH Model 11 I have is somewhat of a collector's item itself... released in 1962, it was the first commercially successful transitorized portable audio system. So I suppose it would be worth fixing the amp on it so it could work once again. One hesitation to doing this is that the output transistors (the ones that are probably blown) are of an obsolete germanium type, and rather expensive. But I suppose they are not going to get any cheaper, either.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

West-Tech services (west-techservices.com) rebuilds the idler wheels for the variable speed Zenith Cobra changers.
The later Cobra changers are really VM changers in disguise, wheels for them are avaialble at thevoiceofmusic.com

Needs a tube? I bet it needs all the electrolytic and wax capacitors replaced. You don't want to smoke the power transformer when the capacitors short. See:
www.antiqueradio.org/recap.htm

I use Zoom Spout oil when cleaning / oiling record changers. Zoom Spout oil is really turbine oil, also used for the tub bearing on a Maytag automatic washer. Zippo lighter fluid is a great cleaner to remove the old dried grease and oil.

Keep in mind that many "trip" mechanisms (end of record reject) are supposed to be clean and dry. Oil would cause too much friction on the tonearm.

My latest project is an 1939 Emerson 9 tube radio/phono with the original Seeburg record changer. I'll post some pictures when I get off my ass.

Ken D.

 

[jasonl]

Idlers

Idlers are no longer being made, and many of the cartridges are gone. Lucky, I got a Maggie with a good set of wheels and a good cart. I get diamond needles whenever I can find them and I keep on rockin.

Rich, find you a Magnavox portable like mine or a console. Really good vintage sound and the 78s will sound good on it.

The needles are the LP/D (diamond and 78/s (sapphire)

 

[whirlcool]

Idler wheels are not so much of a problem as they can be rebuilt by various rebuilding services.
What usually happens with idler wheels is that the rubber hardens with age and then they start to slip thereby causing speed variances when records are played.
One can help this along a little by lightly holding a emery board against the idler wheel while it is turning. This usually can "resurface" the rubber and restore proper performance. But your idler wheel may need rebuilding. Idler Wheel restoration services usually take the old "core" of your wheel in and remove the old rubber and install new rubber and the result is a like new idler wheel. The new rubber is of a better quality and is formulated so it doesn't harden as fast. Usually the charge is around $35.00 or so to have this service performed.

 

[tolivac]

I curious-what are the names of the companies that can rebuild or replace TT idler wheel tires-In the days when TT's were still used in radio stations-had to order the assemblies from the turntable manufactuer-typically QRK or Russco.I knew of companies that rebuilt Ampex 300 tape machine capstan assemblies-these had very large rubber tires that rode against the capstan motor shaft-the wheel served as a speed reduction device for the tape deck capstan.At the agency where I work-they used to have something like 400 Ampex 300 mono full track recorders-GREAT MACINES-even own one.Repaired a lot of these and yes-their hundreds of turntables.The idler wheels in Broadcast-commercial TT's were especially tough-Haven't had to replace many-even if there was a flat spot-just put the TT into 78 RPM speed and let it run for several minutes.also--on idlers-make sure the motor shaft is clean and free of oil.This can cause slippage-and rot out idler wheel tires.Some TT motors had to be oiled.You had to be careful not to let the oil get onto the motor shaft that rides on the idler wheel tire.Same with the Ampex tape machines.Ampex 300 tape decks can still be found at recording companies.Many music groups love to be recorded on an ANALOG Ampex recorder-and one with the original tube electronics.

 

[whirlcool]

I've used this guy for rebuilding a few idler wheels and reel to reel capstans. This guy is good! Perfect job each time. And I tested the new unit with a strobe light and speed strobe tape.

Home

Do you own an old Reel-to-Reel tape recorder, record player, 8-track player, or cassette deck that is sitting in a closet or hidden away because the pinch roller or idler wheel has dried out, hardened, cracked, or been damaged by improper chemical cleaning? Or do you just need a roller rebuilt...

www.terrysrubberrollers.com

 

[tolivac]

Terry's site is very interesting-they even rebuild the rollers and wheels I used to have to replace.The rollers can be rebuilt in much the same way as some transmitter tubes!Used transmitter tube rebuilders quite often-Econco is the most used.They show LOTS of Ampex,Scully,and QRK-Russco rollers and tires.Have to keep this outfit in mind-mainly for my own small collection of tape machines.I do like the rollers and wheels with the "Emergency fixes"most stations had "spare TT tires"I have had to use rubber bands to repair a cart machine capstan drive-they made good emergency drive belts for a Tapecaster cart deck.Older Spotmaster had a similar belt drive capstan setup.