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What I do know, and many others too, is that people in the U.S. do not look the way they did in 1980, or 1950, or even 1930.

Child hood obesity is going through the roof.
So is childhood autism.

If you go back and watch old news segments, look at old newspaper pictures, old yearbooks and other similar media that showed people in un-edited form,
they looked healthier than people today. Healthier meaning height and weight proportionate.

Its really sad to see such an unhealthy society, especially when you know what it once was.

As for adopting to not having the Microwave. I made a list of what I used mine for and thought about how I was going to adopt.

1. melting butter.
2. heating water.
3. general heating of food, (when I was eating more cook foods).
4. pop corn.

I got a $10 instant water heater a Sunbeam Hot Shot and learned some techniques for melting butter which are actually better than they were in the microwave.
As for heating food. I got out the pots and learned how to heat up in there and in the toaster oven.
I already had a hot air corn popper which I was using half the time. now I use that all the time. Tastes better and with out all those awful oils that come in microwave popcorn.
All took a bit longer, but it was worth it. Now it's routine.

If you are heating food in those plastic containers that come in pre-prepared entre's, that is another toxic issue.

Washer111-
"Not cooking foods - especially meats is incredibly dangerous for your health"

Very true. I'm vegan and not everyone has ditched the factory meat yet, I have to remember that.
If one is still eating meat, you're taking so many chances with your health.

These factory farms torcher these animals literally to death. Inject them full of growth hormones, anti-biotics, pain killers to keep the poor animals sedated while they are be torchered. Kick, scald, burn, dismember.... absolutely disgusting.

There is a whole lot of corporatist farmers who won't be going any where near heaven for the crimes they have committed in the last 30 years. When we had family farms, these things weren't happening.

And these sleazy corporate farmers, they keep the animals inside, so they never see the light of day or fresh air, which affects the quality. Then they make sure the buildings on the outside are neatly mowed and looking just so, so that the average person would never suspect the abuse going on.

Anyway, appalling.

I ditched a stove and haven't missed it. It's a nice freedom. Not only do you ditch the stove, you ditch the energy usage, you ditch all the cookware, you ditch the cooked-on-messes, The prep times, the build up of heat in the house, the risk of fires, and all the freezer space you use to keep stuff.

You want to know how bad the food is in America. Try deporting our processed food to other countries. Most countries will not accept the crap from America, so then you ask why. They know that its filled with... yuck.


 
corporatist farmers who won't be going any where near he

Sorry, but the farmer's don't get any say in how they are to treat the animals. The company itself commands them to do what they have to do in order to make money, simple as that. You don't like it, and you are out of a job, out of contract and out of luck. 

 

Eating meat is not gambling with your health. Not eating meat IS. You are causing yourself to become deficient in several key minerals in your body that are required. Animals fats are needed by your body: Cholestrol is not harmful, like everyone thinks. Even if you don't eat meat daily, eating it every week, for example is far better for your health than not. Remember eating a balanced diet is key. No, not one full of grains and meat, one that encompasses each major food group. Look at what people at during the 1950's and 1960s. Meat and Vegetables and Grains. They were healthy. It is the extra-processed food people should be concerned about, not Meat!

In our fair country, there are little, if any "industrial farms." Most of our animals are raised in farmland not too far from our cities or on large stations in the desert. As for Chickens, I know they are perhaps the most tortured, but it comes down to population growth. People go and have 10 children and claim it is their right, then start to wine about how unfairly animals are treated. WAKE UP! If you didn't have those 10 children (along with all the other parents that do), then we wouldn't be in this mess where we need to farm animals as intensively as we do. The Western world seriously has to consider 1 or 2 child policies, as we cannot sustain the pathway we are headed down. Simple as that. 
 
Microwaves---they are NONIONIZING radation-it WILL NOT alter cell structure as X-Rays,Gamma Rays,and so on will.You can safely cook with microwaves as those old time techs did at Ratheon did heating chocolate bars and hot dogs near radar dishes.The microwaves are simply another method of HEATING food or other items.Relax--food cooked with microwaves is safe.No more dangerous than "Manifold" cooking of years ago-wrapping foods in aluminum foil and cooking them on the exhaust manifold of your car motor while traveling.
I eat meat,too-humans DO need nutrients from meat to survive.Remember----We do have the digestive system of a CARNIVORE and have depth perception-allows you to determine distance to a target for persuing it.Same with your hearing.
For obesity-people just aren't doing physical things as much as they used to---esp kids-they are watching TV more,glued to the computer,and playing video games instead of playing games outside-persuing sports and other physical outdoor hobbies-say like hunting or fishing.
I don't think the day will EVER come and hope it does not where you are limited in family size or other matters.In the US this will go over as well as throwing a drowning person a lead balloon.
 
Another thing-High frequency RF and microwaves are dangerous to you if you are in powerful RF feild-say in front of a transmitting antenna or radar dish-microwave communication dish that is transmitting(these have red lights above them that are supposed to be on when the dish is radiating that is accesible on a building roof)-this will cook you in the same manner as a peice of meat or food in your microwave.I have experieinced this-strange sensation-got away from the antenna quickly.FM broadcast and TV broadcast radiation from transmitting antennas can give a cooking effect on you.And where I work-we stay away from antennas that are energized-esp the fronts.In the building you are safe-sheilding,and not in the path of the antenna radiation.And there is a "no fly zone" over our site-SW broadcast antennas radiate UPWARD so some aircraft can be affected-may cause electronically controlled engines to stall.
 
This is a very complex topic and nobody reading should take anything posted as serious without at least 2 hours of independent research. I spent 2 hours compiling these examples:

Many things have been government approved only to have their approval withdrawn later. Things as trivial as scents and colorants. Artificial butter flavor powder (diacetyl) has been shown to promote Alzheimers, shown toxic at factory level, and is being eliminated at the enduser level.

Mineral oil is not particularly harmful per se (minus impurities like benzene), though it may not well serve the purpose for which it is often packaged, skin care. It is after all a solvent. It dismantles natural skin fats. Preparations containing ONLY MO... like worst of all, "baby oil"... I believe should be avoided.

OBTW, I have ichthyosis (google it) and made my own skin lotion (that's what 'arbilab' was before it was a screenname). It contains mineral oil, but the oil phase is dominated by lanolin, nearly identical to human skin fats (except from sheep..... and no, you don't have to kill the sheep to harvest it..... in fact you have to wash it out of wool before you can use either). Human skin fats (sebum) contains oils, waxes, surfactants, salts. See how complicated this gets?

Triclosan can contain benzene impurities. Benzene is bad. It can be in US soda (benzoic acid) as a preservative, and that's one of the things EU won't let US sell them. Benzene is in US nose spray (benzalkonium chloride), replacing the much more hazardous mercury preservative Thiomersal, which a great many parents fear will give their children autism when preserving vaccines. Though the explosion in diagnosed autism tends to be relegated to the increased awareness of the disorder rather than the actual occurrence. Triclosan, like all antibacterials, kills 99% but empowers the survivors to be antibacterial resistant. Benzalkonium meanwhile, paralyzes nasal cilia. See how much MORE complicated this gets?

Ugh, microwaves. A couple (crackpot?) Swiss "reserchers" reported that microwaves "exploded" molecules. Their study wasn't peer reviewed. Switzerland sued them for 'impeding commerce' and won, but was later overturned. MUCH MORE complicated. I can tell you this, that I oven-heat most prepared foods because they taste better than microwaved which tends to burn the fringes. Oh, and the "inside-out" microwave heating, UTTER RUBBISH. Infrared images have shown EXACTLY how microwaves heat, outside in just like analog ovens only more intensely. This is why I seldom operate the microwave above 60% power, to give the heat time to distribute.

Blah blah blah. There is pseudoscience some have adopted as gospel (fools, as bad as the corporate knotzies they decry). There is convenience marketing (microwave on high for 3 minutes, your oven may vary). There is freaking PAYING ATTENTION to what you do in the kitchen and the results and adapting accordion (empiricity).

Sure sign of a "nature knotzie" is lumping microwaves in with epidemic obesity which neatly coincides with the sugar protection act of 1977 (only one of many dating back to the 1700s) that made it illegal to import sugar and was lobbied into existence by the corn producer and processor industries and is why high fructose corn syrup replaced sugar in almost everyting and why nothing sugared tastes like it did in 1976. It also destroyed 80% of the Caribbean economies, why most of them are thugocracies today.

Y'see, when fructose becomes a dominant feature of human diet, it signals the body that the foodchain is failing (onset of famine) and to store sugars as fats. Why else would the fructose industry produce commercials blatantly lying that "your body can't tell the difference"?

SEE HOW COMPLICATED THIS GETS? So you just can't process it by parroting a few reactionary talking points from a few fringe screwballs.
 
Interestingly, high fructose corn syrup isn't anywhere nearly as widely used in Europe as it is in the USA. This is probably because of the large European sugar beet industry that meant traditional sucrose granulated sugar was more heavily protected.

I found a lot of products in the States pretty unpalatable because of corn syrup. I don't think Americans notice it anymore because it's become so prevalent.

For example, I found US sodas very odd tasting compared to normal sugared sodas.

With regard to microwaves, they definitely do penetrate a lot more deeply than infrared radiation (a grill/salamander) and thermal conduction (an oven) but they definitely do not cook from the inside out.

A smaller item will heat quite evenly, but a larger item won't heat through and it's definitely better to turn down the power which actually just causes the magnetron to pulse on and off in a cycle. So you get a blast of heat, then it can spread, then another blast of heat and so on.
 
Well, now I should believe an article about microwaves on a site of a raw food advocate? Hans Hertel's research was really very questionable as already mentioned. He didn't achieve his results by research according academic standards. And neither has he later tried to do it again but then according the standards.

No other research has given evidence that microwaved food is dangerous.

Here's a bit more on microwaves:

http://www.cspinet.org/nah/04_05/microwavemyths.pdf

(pdf file)

Now about autism, since you dragged that into the dicrussion. You see, I know a few things about autism through my work. Yes, autism indeed seems to go through the roof. But that is not because society has been changing or due to different food patterns. Autism is caused during the pregnancy. A few reasons there are more people diagnosed with it, is because science is a continuing process. We know a lot more about autism than when it was discovered in 1943. Diagnosing it is much easier nowadays. Besides that, there is more focus on it. In the past our society (at least here in Europe, but I guess it must have been the same in the USA) solved that problem by finding a suitable job for people who had mental problems. Nowadays people with autism are special because they don't fit into our modern society. Children have to be perfect nowadays and if they aren't, they have to be "repaired" instead of accepting them for who they are.
 
Having a very mild form of the "disorder" I can say that some members of the medical/health community support the notion that those who suffer from Autism actually have major trouble in their intestines - that is, the Micro-Villi are in very poor condition and a diet rich in Glutens (Grains) cause the gut to harbour dangerous organisms.

 

The "GAPS" Diet aims to remedy this by starting you off on a Diet of Meat Broth and Homemade Yoghurt, and slowly adding nutritious vegetables and gluten free items into the mix. The idea is that the Yoghurt and Meat-Broth you are eating helps to quickly repair the intestines and the probiotics ensure it is filled with healthy flora. I know of a lady that has gone through this diet over several years and is in far better health as a result (Although she is not autistic). I myself tried this, since I am prone to digestive trouble, but struggled to progress from the initial stages of the diet, and thus lost significant amounts of weight that I haven't been able to regain - even though I have been off this diet for almost 2 years now. 

 

I also agree with the statement that people today that are different are isolated and secluded from society to be "repaired." Yes, you can get help to help you in social situations, but the lack of understanding people have really does hurt sometimes. At least 4 years ago, when I was "diagnosed" with this disorder, a clip came on the news about a new medication that could help people like me with Asperger's Syndrome. Having had an additional 4 years experience in the world since then, I will be brutally honest and say that BEING the social outcast has turned out to be very beneficial for me, instead of finding myself in one of the "in" crowds that will do just about anything to show-off to their friends... 
 
Thank you Arbilab

For the time spent compiling, I appreciate it.

I'd be interested to know more about mineral oil. In particular, "dismantling skin fats"

While I understand there are some who oppose the use of in skin care products for various reasons, (it's source) my understanding has been that it has little to no evidence of sensitizing skin? And may explain one of the reasons why it's been so common, and widely used.

I do not have sensitive skin, however my go to facial moisturizer has be Cetaphil Moister Cream. (Loaded with petrolatum) it dose not feel greasy. (Its a oil in water emulsion)
Mind you I'm not using it for its ingredients, or lack there of, but for its performance.
Is there a reason I shouldn't?

We've talked before about emulsions, ect, and I know you know what your talking about.

(Don't know if I want my fats dismantled) LOL
 
Eddie ...

... I'm a huge fan of coconut oil, but to use it straight as a moisturizer? I've tried it and I turn into a greasy mess! I'd never dream of slathering down in coconut oil before getting dressed for work; I'd ruin my suits!

That being said, I long ago stopped using conventional deodorants and anti-perspirants. I've been using that natural salt crystal stuff for years now, and it's the best thing ever! It actually facilitates in changing the ph of your body (it gets more acidic -- STINKY -- because it's reacting to those nasty chemicals you put on it every day, requiring you to use more and more of it). There are days when I can actually skip the deodorant without any odor.
 
If one does produce appropriate skin fats (sebum), using mineral oil alone will tend to dry skin. Think about what you get when you boil mineral oil sufficiently, gasoline. Doesn't that remove skin fats?

If one does NOT produce appropriate skin fats (ichthyosis), most anything you add helps SOME. But I still would not use an oil phase consisting solely of MO. In Xenolin (the stuff I made) MO fills out the oil phase with something easier to emulsify than pure lanolin, which is a sticky, stinky mess when used alone. That is, it's a SOLVENT for lanolin, allowing less to be spread over more area and emuslified with less surfactant, where more would also produce a sticky aesthetic.

I have used commercial products which were 'effective' but so reprehensibly un-aesthetic I didn't want to use them. Can't help you if you leave it in the bottle. You see the needle I was trying to thread, between actually doing something yet not feeling like anything was there.

OBTW, I have Asperger's. Which has recently been downgraded from a standalone condition to an "autism spectrum disorder". Whatever they call it, I wouldn't be without it. Pretty sure parents had it too. Highly functional but just didn't get the whole "people thing". I made my life relating to machines, ultimately to physics (although I suck at math beyond 3-term algebra). Stuff most people can't comprehend is second nature to me. Sister likes to tell me I'm a genius. I tell her no, I'm a savant. A genius is broadly intelligent. I'm narrowly intelligent. I'm off the positive scale on some things, also off the negative scale on others. Hey, everybody is SOMEthing. Would I take a pill to get rid of Asperger's? BIG 'no'. Had I not had it, I would have been so ordinary as to bore myself to death.
 
@matt

I use a fingertip full and rub it into the palm of my hand. Then rub the oil into both hands and just apply a film to my face. Excess I wipe onto my shoulders and arms.

I apply it in small film like quantities.

But there is nothing like when you don't have to go out rubbing it into your scalp.

It gives you a nice shiny coat. LOL.
 
Thanks Arbilb

I get it.

Just investigated what I'm using. And no, it not just mineral oil or petroleum, a fair amount of sweet almond oil, is part of the total formula.
Funny you mentioned Lanolin. Lanolin is not something I see too much anymore? use to be all the rage! Was in a lot of skin, and hair care products. Wonder why it's disappeared?
 
I expected there would be

a certain group who would twist themselves in knots trying to convince themselves that microwaves are a dream machine.

Either because they work at a company that is associated or

because their own health habits are built around it. OR BOTH.

 

With deer-in-headlights syndrome, it's common for people to try and explain away their behavior.  And I'm not a classist.  I'm not looking down on people who microwave.  I used to use it myself since 1985.

 

Look how long it took for people to ditch the cigarettes.  There are STILL people who willing smoke.  This just amazes me. 

 

Its been HOW MANY years since the facts came out?   And we found out that YET AGAIN, in a red state, cigarette companies knew their product was defective, but they hid the truth so YET AGAIN, a small group of unspecial people could continue to reap profits.  sigh.

criminal corporatist behavior.

 

At least in the last decade or so, people who smoke know its disgusting.  But how long did it take?

 

Some of us just know better, by nature.  I knew smoking was gross when I was a child.  yuck

And its alarming how microwaves can be found in many places. Dorm rooms, hotel rooms, office break rooms, certainly that apple pie at McDonalds is warmed in one.   Your not as likely to find a single burner and saucepan in these places.

 

As was clearly pointed out, there is certainly a dispute about Microwave safety.

 

With that in mind, One should much prefer to travel light and be free of yet another bulky appliance. 

I've been without for 2 years and I don't miss it.  It's not a dream machine.  More like a nightmare.... in box.  (see how I did that)

 

I know, I know -"But it has a cute little beeper at the end to tell you its ready....  Stoves don't do that." (Ohhhh.) shuckers.
smiley-cry.gif


 

 

Microwaves are easy to move, you can get them free as give aways on classified websites. 

They plug into a standard outlets (though they do draw about 80% more wattage than is stated on the machine.)

 

Hey, I've done my thing to educate.  I've done the Christian thing and I'm not even officially Christian.

 

 

arbilab-

#29 was just a run on of incomprehensible gibberish and name calling.  It was like trying to listen to the "entertainer" <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">politician</span> sara palin give a speech. 

 

"Sure sign of a "nature knotzie" is lumping " ... lol.  For the record it is spelled Nazi.  I know in red states its fashionable to call anyone who threatens a weak ego-ed white person with facts and knowledge- a Nazi,

but in fact it's common knowledge that a Nazi IS a generally weak ego-ed white person.  It's like the ultimate in projection.  "I'm going to call you what I AM-AHHH !  My brain is a perpetual syntax error !"

 

People, when you use these ridiculous names, what are you calling yourself in exchange?

If someone is a "nature knotzie" what does that make someone like you?

 

I asked the question before :

 

Question: If I'm an "eco-freak" (someone who lives their life with natural, sustainable products and ideas), what does that make yourself and others, who are not?

 

 



[this post was last edited: 11/19/2013-02:26]
 
We all evolve and learn at different paces

It's always disappointing to learn that something you depend on or have fondness for, is bad for you.

 

Shag carpeting, or any wall to wall carpeting- It used to be I couldn't be without.  Then I realized how awful that is.  So that's out.

 

That new car smell, the smell of a new shower curtain when you open it, certain types of mixed fabrics.-  out or minimalized. 

 

It's disturbing how many of these products are tainted with , or created exclusively with, petroleum based chemicals.

 

90% of the money we spend when going to the grocery store goes toward petroleum in one form or another.

 

Truth is hard to accept, but once you do, you can make changes for your own betterment.

 

 

 



rustyspaatz++11-19-2013-02-20-50.jpg
 
Rusty, you have pertinent points here and there. Like the vinyl smell, which IS bad for you.

But your fanaticism equates YOU more closely with Sarah Palin than your indictment of me does. Get some perspective mate. Take it from your grandpa, you have none beyond a couple fringe websites you have read. Come back and talk to me in 40 years when you are informed (and I am dead). [rolleyes]
 
If you are going to drag the tobacco companies into this argument, then you might as well pay attention to what they have to say. Guess what, even they admit that smoking can cause many illnesses, although this is to save their butts, considering overwhelming pseudoscience present in today's society. Yes, they may market something that is possibly deadly (Although they can't advertise, so why people whinge about their "marketing" shocks me). 

http://www.bata.com.au/group/sites/BAT_7WYKG8.nsf/vwPagesWebLive/DO7WZETC?opendocument&SKN=1
And you know why there are still people willing to smoke? Because smoking causes a rush of dopamine in the brain, causing pleasure. And you know what? Humans, like just about every other living creature on this planet enjoy pleasure. That is partly why animals reproduce, due to drive and pleasure. 

And please don't attempt to start on about how Marijuana is "so much safer" than smoking. This is an outlawed drug, and causes people to do stupid things when they get high. And guess what? People get addicted to those highs too (or use it as an escape!). The stuff burns hotter, and since only a very small demographic use the drug, the effects of it are hard to know - since people who use that drug may use a combination of others (Including cigarettes and harsher drugs). 

If it weren't for smokers and drinkers, then you'd probably find an incredibly huge hole in every nation's budget... Yes, there is a social cost and it is high. But the money earned from those people during a lifetime of their habit far outweighs this through Goods and Services Tax (GST), Excise Taxes and even the individuals expenditure on Public/Private health care (Those with Private care pay a levy in our country to help support the Public system). 

 

You can probably tell I am pro-smoking, primarily because I have researched and discovered the distortion of facts presented, and how statistics have been twisted in odd ways to present the numbers that the Nazi's want you to see. The government doesn't care for your health anymore than Big-Corporations do, they do it for "popularity points" amongst fellow health-nuts.

In fact, the 1998 World Health Organization Report on Second-Hand smoke actually found statistically insignificant risk in the smoke, but the press release still claimed smoking was just as deadly as before. And let's not forget the EPA's report that was thrown out of a federal courtroom in the U.S. due to the fact-twisting, number-bending actions they took to produce the results they wanted to see. You can search this report for yourself, since I don't have my book of over 200 references on me at this time. A curious co-worker of mine is presently reading the book. 

 

As for microwaves, I don't think anyone here has much to worry about unless they spend your days reheating your lunch/dinner/breakfast/coffee/water! Then you *might* have to worry about fertility issues, but after watching things go around and around inside the microwave for that long, you would've passed out long ago from self-induced dizziness.

We don't own a microwave anymore, simply because we don't have the space for the darned thing in our poky kitchen, otherwise I can guarantee you we would (And only for mediocre tasks at that). Besides, we have an induction stove which works just as quickly with Electromagnetic Cooking Technology. Gee, I wonder if the "radiation" from that could kill me? NOT!

I don't care what you think, but food that is correctly microwaved won't be the toxic hazard you think it is. And with all due respect, those who care about the taste and texture of the food they eat probably won't use the microwave for more than mediocre tasks, such as heating water or food ingredients. 
 
you have some good points Washer111.

 

I'm certainly not perfect.  I have a sweet tooth.  If I could eat rich birthday cake all day, I would.  and these days I rarely even buy a dough nut.  It took quite a few years to ween myself off.  You can't expect permanent changes to stick, overnight.  You have to give yourself the opportunity to fail, get back on your feet, and try again, with each time getting closer to success.

 

The pleasure principle is strong.  And I don't think people should be prevented from pursuing the "drug of their choice".  They should however be able to access information about the risks and be able to freely get help if they find they become addicted.

 

 

 
 
@ Stan
I`m not an expert just interested in these things, but what I gather about mineral oil is there are two reasons for its widespread use:
-It does not get ranzid and has an unlimited (?) shelf life as a raw material.
-It is dirt cheap.

There are some health concerns about it as well, I think traces of it have been found in internal organs but personally I don`t like it because I simply find it inferior to vegetable oils. Never heard about skin sensivities to it though.
I wonder why the multinational brands like Dove, Nivea and Johnsons baby oil still use things like MO whereas most store brands like Aldi, at least here in Germany hardly use it anymore.

AFAIK Lanolin can trigger allergic reactions in rare cases and there is also a risk of contamination with pesticides.
No sheep has to be killed to get Lanolin, but I still don`t like it.
Just think of back in the 40`s and 50`s when lots of women wore fur, weird stuff like mink oil or horse marrow were all the rage.
Thank God times have changed, today it`s Aloe Vera and herbs instead.
 

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