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If one does produce appropriate skin fats (sebum), using mineral oil alone will tend to dry skin. Think about what you get when you boil mineral oil sufficiently, gasoline. Doesn't that remove skin fats?

If one does NOT produce appropriate skin fats (ichthyosis), most anything you add helps SOME. But I still would not use an oil phase consisting solely of MO. In Xenolin (the stuff I made) MO fills out the oil phase with something easier to emulsify than pure lanolin, which is a sticky, stinky mess when used alone. That is, it's a SOLVENT for lanolin, allowing less to be spread over more area and emuslified with less surfactant, where more would also produce a sticky aesthetic.

I have used commercial products which were 'effective' but so reprehensibly un-aesthetic I didn't want to use them. Can't help you if you leave it in the bottle. You see the needle I was trying to thread, between actually doing something yet not feeling like anything was there.

OBTW, I have Asperger's. Which has recently been downgraded from a standalone condition to an "autism spectrum disorder". Whatever they call it, I wouldn't be without it. Pretty sure parents had it too. Highly functional but just didn't get the whole "people thing". I made my life relating to machines, ultimately to physics (although I suck at math beyond 3-term algebra). Stuff most people can't comprehend is second nature to me. Sister likes to tell me I'm a genius. I tell her no, I'm a savant. A genius is broadly intelligent. I'm narrowly intelligent. I'm off the positive scale on some things, also off the negative scale on others. Hey, everybody is SOMEthing. Would I take a pill to get rid of Asperger's? BIG 'no'. Had I not had it, I would have been so ordinary as to bore myself to death.
 
@matt

I use a fingertip full and rub it into the palm of my hand. Then rub the oil into both hands and just apply a film to my face. Excess I wipe onto my shoulders and arms.

I apply it in small film like quantities.

But there is nothing like when you don't have to go out rubbing it into your scalp.

It gives you a nice shiny coat. LOL.
 
Thanks Arbilb

I get it.

Just investigated what I'm using. And no, it not just mineral oil or petroleum, a fair amount of sweet almond oil, is part of the total formula.
Funny you mentioned Lanolin. Lanolin is not something I see too much anymore? use to be all the rage! Was in a lot of skin, and hair care products. Wonder why it's disappeared?
 
I expected there would be

a certain group who would twist themselves in knots trying to convince themselves that microwaves are a dream machine.

Either because they work at a company that is associated or

because their own health habits are built around it. OR BOTH.

 

With deer-in-headlights syndrome, it's common for people to try and explain away their behavior.  And I'm not a classist.  I'm not looking down on people who microwave.  I used to use it myself since 1985.

 

Look how long it took for people to ditch the cigarettes.  There are STILL people who willing smoke.  This just amazes me. 

 

Its been HOW MANY years since the facts came out?   And we found out that YET AGAIN, in a red state, cigarette companies knew their product was defective, but they hid the truth so YET AGAIN, a small group of unspecial people could continue to reap profits.  sigh.

criminal corporatist behavior.

 

At least in the last decade or so, people who smoke know its disgusting.  But how long did it take?

 

Some of us just know better, by nature.  I knew smoking was gross when I was a child.  yuck

And its alarming how microwaves can be found in many places. Dorm rooms, hotel rooms, office break rooms, certainly that apple pie at McDonalds is warmed in one.   Your not as likely to find a single burner and saucepan in these places.

 

As was clearly pointed out, there is certainly a dispute about Microwave safety.

 

With that in mind, One should much prefer to travel light and be free of yet another bulky appliance. 

I've been without for 2 years and I don't miss it.  It's not a dream machine.  More like a nightmare.... in box.  (see how I did that)

 

I know, I know -"But it has a cute little beeper at the end to tell you its ready....  Stoves don't do that." (Ohhhh.) shuckers.
smiley-cry.gif


 

 

Microwaves are easy to move, you can get them free as give aways on classified websites. 

They plug into a standard outlets (though they do draw about 80% more wattage than is stated on the machine.)

 

Hey, I've done my thing to educate.  I've done the Christian thing and I'm not even officially Christian.

 

 

arbilab-

#29 was just a run on of incomprehensible gibberish and name calling.  It was like trying to listen to the "entertainer" <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">politician</span> sara palin give a speech. 

 

"Sure sign of a "nature knotzie" is lumping " ... lol.  For the record it is spelled Nazi.  I know in red states its fashionable to call anyone who threatens a weak ego-ed white person with facts and knowledge- a Nazi,

but in fact it's common knowledge that a Nazi IS a generally weak ego-ed white person.  It's like the ultimate in projection.  "I'm going to call you what I AM-AHHH !  My brain is a perpetual syntax error !"

 

People, when you use these ridiculous names, what are you calling yourself in exchange?

If someone is a "nature knotzie" what does that make someone like you?

 

I asked the question before :

 

Question: If I'm an "eco-freak" (someone who lives their life with natural, sustainable products and ideas), what does that make yourself and others, who are not?

 

 



[this post was last edited: 11/19/2013-02:26]
 
We all evolve and learn at different paces

It's always disappointing to learn that something you depend on or have fondness for, is bad for you.

 

Shag carpeting, or any wall to wall carpeting- It used to be I couldn't be without.  Then I realized how awful that is.  So that's out.

 

That new car smell, the smell of a new shower curtain when you open it, certain types of mixed fabrics.-  out or minimalized. 

 

It's disturbing how many of these products are tainted with , or created exclusively with, petroleum based chemicals.

 

90% of the money we spend when going to the grocery store goes toward petroleum in one form or another.

 

Truth is hard to accept, but once you do, you can make changes for your own betterment.

 

 

 



rustyspaatz++11-19-2013-02-20-50.jpg
 
Rusty, you have pertinent points here and there. Like the vinyl smell, which IS bad for you.

But your fanaticism equates YOU more closely with Sarah Palin than your indictment of me does. Get some perspective mate. Take it from your grandpa, you have none beyond a couple fringe websites you have read. Come back and talk to me in 40 years when you are informed (and I am dead). [rolleyes]
 
If you are going to drag the tobacco companies into this argument, then you might as well pay attention to what they have to say. Guess what, even they admit that smoking can cause many illnesses, although this is to save their butts, considering overwhelming pseudoscience present in today's society. Yes, they may market something that is possibly deadly (Although they can't advertise, so why people whinge about their "marketing" shocks me). 

http://www.bata.com.au/group/sites/BAT_7WYKG8.nsf/vwPagesWebLive/DO7WZETC?opendocument&SKN=1
And you know why there are still people willing to smoke? Because smoking causes a rush of dopamine in the brain, causing pleasure. And you know what? Humans, like just about every other living creature on this planet enjoy pleasure. That is partly why animals reproduce, due to drive and pleasure. 

And please don't attempt to start on about how Marijuana is "so much safer" than smoking. This is an outlawed drug, and causes people to do stupid things when they get high. And guess what? People get addicted to those highs too (or use it as an escape!). The stuff burns hotter, and since only a very small demographic use the drug, the effects of it are hard to know - since people who use that drug may use a combination of others (Including cigarettes and harsher drugs). 

If it weren't for smokers and drinkers, then you'd probably find an incredibly huge hole in every nation's budget... Yes, there is a social cost and it is high. But the money earned from those people during a lifetime of their habit far outweighs this through Goods and Services Tax (GST), Excise Taxes and even the individuals expenditure on Public/Private health care (Those with Private care pay a levy in our country to help support the Public system). 

 

You can probably tell I am pro-smoking, primarily because I have researched and discovered the distortion of facts presented, and how statistics have been twisted in odd ways to present the numbers that the Nazi's want you to see. The government doesn't care for your health anymore than Big-Corporations do, they do it for "popularity points" amongst fellow health-nuts.

In fact, the 1998 World Health Organization Report on Second-Hand smoke actually found statistically insignificant risk in the smoke, but the press release still claimed smoking was just as deadly as before. And let's not forget the EPA's report that was thrown out of a federal courtroom in the U.S. due to the fact-twisting, number-bending actions they took to produce the results they wanted to see. You can search this report for yourself, since I don't have my book of over 200 references on me at this time. A curious co-worker of mine is presently reading the book. 

 

As for microwaves, I don't think anyone here has much to worry about unless they spend your days reheating your lunch/dinner/breakfast/coffee/water! Then you *might* have to worry about fertility issues, but after watching things go around and around inside the microwave for that long, you would've passed out long ago from self-induced dizziness.

We don't own a microwave anymore, simply because we don't have the space for the darned thing in our poky kitchen, otherwise I can guarantee you we would (And only for mediocre tasks at that). Besides, we have an induction stove which works just as quickly with Electromagnetic Cooking Technology. Gee, I wonder if the "radiation" from that could kill me? NOT!

I don't care what you think, but food that is correctly microwaved won't be the toxic hazard you think it is. And with all due respect, those who care about the taste and texture of the food they eat probably won't use the microwave for more than mediocre tasks, such as heating water or food ingredients. 
 
you have some good points Washer111.

 

I'm certainly not perfect.  I have a sweet tooth.  If I could eat rich birthday cake all day, I would.  and these days I rarely even buy a dough nut.  It took quite a few years to ween myself off.  You can't expect permanent changes to stick, overnight.  You have to give yourself the opportunity to fail, get back on your feet, and try again, with each time getting closer to success.

 

The pleasure principle is strong.  And I don't think people should be prevented from pursuing the "drug of their choice".  They should however be able to access information about the risks and be able to freely get help if they find they become addicted.

 

 

 
 
@ Stan
I`m not an expert just interested in these things, but what I gather about mineral oil is there are two reasons for its widespread use:
-It does not get ranzid and has an unlimited (?) shelf life as a raw material.
-It is dirt cheap.

There are some health concerns about it as well, I think traces of it have been found in internal organs but personally I don`t like it because I simply find it inferior to vegetable oils. Never heard about skin sensivities to it though.
I wonder why the multinational brands like Dove, Nivea and Johnsons baby oil still use things like MO whereas most store brands like Aldi, at least here in Germany hardly use it anymore.

AFAIK Lanolin can trigger allergic reactions in rare cases and there is also a risk of contamination with pesticides.
No sheep has to be killed to get Lanolin, but I still don`t like it.
Just think of back in the 40`s and 50`s when lots of women wore fur, weird stuff like mink oil or horse marrow were all the rage.
Thank God times have changed, today it`s Aloe Vera and herbs instead.
 
Mineral oil

Is derived from petroleum, and rarely causes allergic reactions. Keep in mind that petroleum is a "natural" substance that comes from the earth. Pharmaceutical grade has no resemblance the the original petroleum from witch it came. Pharmaceutical grade, is considered the most safest, most moisturizing ingredient found.
Sources: Cosmetics & Toiletries, Jan 2001, page 79.
Cosmetic Dermatology, Sept 2001, pages 44-46.
Journal of Dermatologic Science May 2008, pages 135-142.
International Journal of Cosmetic Science, Oct 2007, pages 385-390.

It's use is certified as either USP ( United States Pharmacopeia ) or BP ( British Pharmacopeia )

Rusty, sorry to leave you out of this part of the discussion, but will get back with thoughts about microwaves!
 
Yes lanolin can be an allergen. Yes, "contains lanolin" was a marketing buzzphrase for a long time. Fact, the amounts were vanishingly/ineffectively small, on the order of tenths of a percent. Xenolin is >3% lanolin. Is that hard to balance with surfactants? Yes.

But I knew a little trick many of us launderists do. Say it with me: PHOSPHATES! Diammonium phosphate. Whoo-hoo! It's impossible to balance 3% lanolin with triethanolamine stearate alone. Who'da thunk?

Well actually Kendall thunk, sometime shortly after WW2. I discovered their formula in the early 50s. Yes my skin was bad when I was 8yo. Their stuff helped and was unobjectionable to use. Natcherly I became addicted to it. Byemby Colgate bought it, then discontinued it in the early 90s. I even called them, if they'd sell me some anyway or tell me how to make it. No and no. That pissed me off so I bought everything on the ingredient list, researched cosmetic chemistry to come up with coarse proportions, then brewed a hundred batches in my kitchen over 2 years until I got it, not only right, but better (the 3% thing). Then had a manufacturing chemist reproduce it in bulk. Took 5 batches--hundreds of $ each--to get it right. Now THAT'S a hobby.

And that's Asperger's. I'm no genius, but if you piss me off I'm as smart as I need to be. [grin]
 
Now for the plant oils

Provided that they are non volatile plant oils...olive, safflower, soybean, grape seed, avocado, caster, ect.
But remember M.O is also a non volatile oil, it just not derived from plants. Other oils like mink, and emu, are non volatile.

Often times, plant oil emulsions (oil in water) that strictly use only plant oils, also scent their products with volatile plants oils. That can be extremely problematic. And even those who do not, still have to use a chemical preservative in the product. They'd have huge lawsuits on their hands with out.

To make a oil in water emulation, or water in oil emulsion for that matter, there needs to be a what you might call a "heat & hold period" This has to happen regardless if the oils are plant, or otherwise.
The purpose is to kill any bacteria, mold, or fungus that may be present. The water needs to also go through this same "heat & hold" process, for the same reason.
Some of the beneficial properties in the oils are changed by this heat. However it's far too dangerous to skip the process.
There is at this time, no natural preservative that can be an effective antibacterial, anti fungal, preservative, at least that can be trusted. That can only be done with a chemical. (Germall Plus is an example, if you wish to Google it)

In other words, the possible contamination is dealt with in the first place (heat & hold) then into sterilized containers, the chemical mixed into the formula to prevent bacteria from growing, and spoiling. Poured into the container, then sealed with sterile lids. The preservative also helps prevent bacterial, fugal growth, from cross contamination, from normal handling, sticking your fingers in the jar ect.

Aloe Vera, while very healing, and possessing anti inflammatory qualities, would also suffer the consequences. (Heat)
Better off having a plant around, so that the gel could be use directly from the plant.

I guess my point is, just because it's made from plants, dose not mean its better, or more beneficial for skin.

When checking a ingredient list on a label, be aware that the chemical preservative is sometimes hidden in the fragrance. (Their sneaky)

The only time a preservative can be left out, is when the product is all oil. Once water is added there has to be something to stop unwanted growth.
 
Now for the plant oils

Provided that they are non volatile plant oils...olive, safflower, soybean, grape seed, avocado, caster, ect.
But remember M.O is also a non volatile oil, it just not derived from plants. Other oils like mink, and emu, are non volatile.

Often times, plant oil emulsions (oil in water) that strictly use only plant oils, also scent their products with volatile plants oils. That can be extremely problematic. And even those who do not, still have to use a chemical preservative in the product. They'd have huge lawsuits on their hands with out.

To make a oil in water emulation, or water in oil emulsion for that matter, there needs to be a what you might call a "heat & hold period" This has to happen regardless if the oils are plant, or otherwise.
The purpose is to kill any bacteria, mold, or fungus that may be present. The water needs to also go through this same "heat & hold" process, for the same reason.
Some of the beneficial properties in the oils are changed by this heat. However it's far too dangerous to skip the process.
There is at this time, no natural preservative that can be an effective antibacterial, anti fungal, preservative, at least that can be trusted. That can only be done with a chemical. (Germall Plus is an example, if you wish to Google it)

In other words, the possible contamination is dealt with in the first place (heat & hold) then into sterilized containers, the chemical mixed into the formula to prevent bacteria from growing, and spoiling. Poured into the container, then sealed with sterile lids. The preservative also helps prevent bacterial, fugal growth, from cross contamination, from normal handling, sticking your fingers in the jar ect.

Aloe Vera, while very healing, and possessing anti inflammatory qualities, would also suffer the consequences. (Heat)
Better off having a plant around, so that the gel could be use directly from the plant.

I guess my point is, just because it's made from plants, dose not mean its better, or more beneficial for skin.

When checking a ingredient list on a label, be aware that the chemical preservative is sometimes hidden in the fragrance. (Their sneaky)

The only time a preservative can be left out, is when the product is all oil. Once water is added there has to be something to stop unwanted growth.
 
Sorry guys for the double post.

Arbilab
Just wanted to add, Lanolin as use a as a super fat in soap at 3% seems to be just right as well.
Too much more starts killing the lather. For those who aren't allergic, with dry skin, seem to love it.
 
As with comedy, delivery is everything. [grin]

Oh my, there are bacteria that will grow in nothing but oil. Even in diesel or jet fuel. The summabitches are insidious. To conform with formulary, Xenolin includes subpercentages of parabens. Though the urea and diammonium are also preservatives, along with being humectants and surfactants.

I mean like, that's why the schtuff works as well as it does and remains shelf-stable going on 20 years. Can YOU do that? Kinda joshing, but CAN you?
 
Full disclosure, when I did this in 1995 I didn't realize that it was quadruple preserved, thus the 20yr shelf life. Subsequent research revealed that.

Good for a giggle this far along. I thought I was smart but I was smarter than I thought I was. I still live in a government retirement institution, which goes to show you what 'smartness', even inadvertant, is worth. [choose smiley]
 
LOL

No I can't sit on shelf for 20 years!

What I was referring to was a anhydrous cream. A formula that goes something like this..

Mineral oil
Petrolatum
Paraffin
Ceresin
Beta Carotene

Of course this would be heated first (to kill the nasties) and then poured into sterile jars. But since there is no water, there isn't a need for a preservative. Hopefully the person using, would remove the product with a clean spatula, or at least wash their hand before sticking there finger in!

I have heard of a CO that is, or has researched a natural preservative made from grapefruit (not grapefruit sees extract)
Citromed.. Or Cirtramed ..I think. I believe this was done in 2008, but have not seen, or heard the results.
The CO was in Norway.
 
Yes, water is the biggest bugaboo. Most of these things are made at 165F, around the temp that chicken (salmonella factories) become safe to eat. But as I understand, the very air around us contains microorgasms (sic) which sucked back into the bottle after dispensing, contaminates the contents. And as above, there are bacteria which thrive in nothing but oil. Why you always see TWO parabens, one for water, one for oil.

Both urea and diammonium slowly release ammonia so I probably could have left the parabens out (they're nasty but their percentages are 0.1 and 0.05). However, they are standard practice in such preparations. There are less noxious alternatives, say citric acid, but I had no idea what that would do to the emulsion. I told George (manufacturing chemist) to add industry-standard preservatives and that's what he did.

Anecdotally, I had a batch made by another (less reputable) lab. Their sample was perfect but their product was abominable. I came to find out (George told me) that they typically multiply their parabens X10 because their process is sloppy. Good thing I paid with VISA and could reject the entire shipment as misrepresented. Their stuff literally burned sensitive areas. I tested the final product everywhere, including rubbing it in my eyes, before releasing it upon the public. Unlike most in business today, I had ethics. As a business I failed, but I did no harm.
 

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