Induction Electric Cooking

[david]

Re: Asian and Portable induction cookers

Quite powerful at 2800 wts to say the least. That's the first thing I thought of: ideal for use at buffets especially during sunday brunch cooking all those omelets. The one I go tto (ok I admit at the "Holidome") uses those little bottled propane burners and I guess that they could be dangerous not only from fire but fumes. I used to see those hobber stoves by Kenmore (made by someone else) quite a bit at those mom and pop grocery stores in the rural areas-around here most have a grill and deep fryer as well. Since I never used one I didn't know the pros and cons of them. Thanks for sharing-David

 

[petek]

I don't think the portable unit

is 2800 watts, they look to be 1200 or so...The big ones are on the ranges running 220V

 

[toggleswitch]

2,800 watts

Yes, you are right the 2,800 watt is on a 220v "regular" (not portable) cooker.

Thanks

 

[MrX]

De Dietrich Induction hob (europe)

I have an induction hob (cooktop) from De Dietrich wouldn't swap it for any other form of cooking it's far more responsive and powerful than gas.

You need to use Stainless steel (good quality) or cast iron (enamel) cookware. The thicker the pot base the more even the cooking temprature!

Hob specs:
Model: DTI309X
Size: 90CM wide
Touch controls (at front of hob in glass)
Cooking zones:
Front Right: Power 3200W (23CM diameter)
Front Left: Power 2200W (16CM diameter)
Back Right: Power 3200W (23cm diameter)
Back Left: Power 3200W (23cm diameter)
Extra large zone: 3600W (28 CM)
Power levels per zone: 15
Presets: 5
timers: 5

Safety: cookware sensor, temprature limiter, anti-overflow, control lock, Automatic Stop system, Residual heat indicator.

Total power consumption 10,800W (intelligent power management prevents you from going above this by turning down one zone as you turn up another!)
Connection: 2 circuits: 1x32A + 1 x 16A 230V 50Hz
OR: 3-phase 4-wire 400V 50Hz connection.

 

[toggleswitch]

3-phase 4-wire 400V 50hz

Is this normally found in residences in your neck of the woods?

Is it:
hot to hot = 400V ???
hot to neutral =230v ???

"Ova Hiya"
120/208v 3-phase 4-wire is usually commercial.
120/220v single phase 3-wire is usually residential.
277/480v is usually for commercial lighting and hard-wired loads (but not outlets /powerpoints)

 

[brisnat81]

3 Phase

In AU we have 3phase 500V 63A, its just a big roung plastic connector, about 7cm in diameter. This would be used for big welders, lathes, compressors, large objects like that.

Quite often you push the plug in and screw it on.

its not the Norm, but its not unusal in a residential setting, especially as Ducted A/C becomes more popular, that runs on 250V 3phase power.

 

[toggleswitch]

Thanks Nathan

I'm guessing that "Ducted A/C" is "Down Unda" for "Central Air Conditioning?" and maybe electric resistance heat?

What's pitiful is that apts in NY City (sick of hearing that yet?)were allowed 'till recently (and maybe still)to have ONLY 110/220 40a main service, assuming of course that cooking was gas and heat and hot water are lanlord-supplied gas or fuel-oil. [All of which are pretty standard.]

 

[MrX]

European supplies are pretty much all 3 phase originally. 4 wires run either along the road overhead (becoming much less usual) or underground (usually) 3xphases(hots) and 1 neutral.
Each home, typically, takes one phase + neutral. Each house taking a different phase to spread the load.

If 3-phase is required it's only a matter of hooking up a 4 wire rather than a 2 wire supply.

230V 50hz from phase to neutral.
400V 50hz from phase to phase.

3 phase is used for large domestic (fixed) appliances like stoves, ovens and even some washers and dryers! However, it varies from country to country.

Also, you may find that he panel is supplied with 3 phase, and all of the final circuits are provided with phase+neutral 230V except for perhaps the stove.

3 phase tends to be more common in residential settings in continental europe than in the UK for a variety of reasons e.g. the use of Air Conditioning and more powerful heating systems.

The UK will tend to run 32 or 45A single phase circuits to stoves etc where as in France you might find a smaller 3-phase hook up capable of delivering the same power.

In terms of safety, 3-phase is generally used only for fixed appliances and in the countries where it is common place the wiring regs sorrounding it are extremely strict.

Also, any outlet (regardless of wheather it's single of 3 phase) is required to be protected by an RCD (GFCI) once it's rated less than 32Amps.

Are you sure it's 500V 3-phase in Australia?

The original european standards:

All of Europe (including Ireland) 220V single phase 380V 3phase.
UK : 240V single phase / 415V 3-phase.

That was harmonised to 230V single phase / 400V 3-phase.

I would have assumed that Australia tended to follow UK trends and would have used 240/415 moving to 230/400. Given that it's a pretty small market and being out of step with Europe would seriously limit the range of appliances and industrial 3-phase equipment available.
(EU (CENELEC) standards tend to be mirrored in almost all countries that use 220-240V 50hz just as US NEC standards are generally mirrored in countries using 110-125V 60Hz systems)

 

[toggleswitch]

US Power Supply

Sounds mighty familiar except we now use a 3-wire supply (minimun)to all residences with hot to neutral 110-120v. This voltage is for most light and general-duty plug-and-cord connected loads and lighting.

220-240V is used for high-wattage (heating-type) appliances --> A/C, central heating, hot water heaters, stoves, dryers (where all but the smallest electric dryers are 5,000+ watts, 30a)

Air-conditioners are available from 5,000 to 14,000+/- Btu/h (one to three room units) for 110-120v. More powerful units are (10,000 Btu/h & up (2 rooms and larger) and use 220-240v.

Most appliances except refrigeration can handle 208V that is seen on 3-phase systems without a problem. Refrigeration, however needs to be rated for 208v (and slightly less) or it won't start either during normal periods or during voltage-reduction brown-outs when our supply grid is overwhelmed due to demand.

 

[MrX]

I've never really come across a brownout situation over here. The voltage's always pretty rock solidly stable.

I get the impression that because of heavy public investment into the power grids in europe, they do tend to be a tad more stable and not quite so over-stretched.

Although, that's starting to change!

 

[jetcone]

In the 70's

In the US during the energy crisis we had so many brownouts that Frigidaire started stocking a new part and number for their 1-18 washers, it was an add on capacitor to help level out the voltage drop if the machine kicked into spin/drain during a brownout!! I have seen many 1-18's retrofitted with the capacitor placed in the control consol beside the timer.

We still have wild voltage fluctuations, and I have had to put line conditioners on all my embroidery machines at work to keep the supply level for the electronics.

jet

 

[petek]

Mr X

It used to be that way in N.America but with so many people plugging in now and perhaps the effects of deregulating the power industries in pretty much every jurisdiction something seems to be going wrong. For those of us a bit older growing up in the 50's early 60' we were promoted in early advertising to "live better electrically" and that nuclear power would one day be so cheap it would be free...HAH. That being said I do try and conserve without affecting my lifestyle and have changed nearly all my general lighting to mini fluoresents where I can as well as turning things off more than I used to. Heck I even go around turning off the mini fluoresents but sometimes think it may be better to leave them on if I'm going back within an hour or so. It's great to be able to light up 2 or 4 rooms for the cost of just one 100 watt bulb.

 

[toggleswitch]

Regarding our "national" power grid:

Due to the size of this country, and the way the US Gov't ....also known internally as the Federal Gov't (Federal= pertaining to/ in charge of / over / the federation of states).... is legally restricted, any rights not specifically enumerated to it default to the state governments. Things such as drivers' licenses, marriage, divorce, incorporation etc. become enacted on the state-level. For cohesiveness and unity, one state agrees to legally and equally recognize the other's granting of such ....agggghhh the word escapes me... decrees, I guess. Similarly many of our commercial and other laws vary tremendously state-by-state. The Federal gov't CAN however get involved if something crosses state lines (involving more than one state) Example: mailing (sending by post) a pirated movie from one state to another. This is best decribed, I'd say as a mother of semi-autonomus teenagers... they have their own ways, thoughts and lives and settle issues between themselves, but momma rules over them, utimately.

So to tie this in to the thread, I believe it becomes impossible legally for the US govt to do certain things on a national scale, even when reasonable to do so. For example: During the oil-embargo and (our) energy crisis of the 70s, when the US govt wanted to reduce speed limits on roads nationally to save energy it could not DIRECTLY do so. It had to say to the states... do this, this, and this or you do not get money to build highways, etc. So it got what it wanted in the national interst --the speed limit reduced to 55 mph (90 km/h?)in all states, but it was the state's authority and soverignty that technically governed. I am therefore of the opinion that it can not dictate and govern directly/easily such things as maintaing the power grid. I have a feeling these things are privately owned or belong to the states.

Thanks for listening..

 

[kenmore1978]

The word is

reciprocity

"For cohesiveness and unity, one state agrees to legally and equally recognize the other's granting of such ....agggghhh the word escapes me... decrees, I guess."

 

[kenmore1978]

The de-regulation of power has also caused a problem. If it's not done just right, it can cause a problem, as it did in California, where the power companies were forced to sell off their generating stations and became nothing but the carriers of the power from the companies that owned the power stations to the consumers. De-regulation is good for some industires, but bad for others. If not watched, companies will sink to the lwoest common denominator when it comes to making $. Some essential things, like power, telephone, airlines, cable, should be heavily regulated. Other things do better in the free market. The telephone industry reminds me of the scene in "Terminator 2" where the broken pieces of the "bad" terminator flow back together and re-form, just as the 1984 of AT&T break-up is being undone bit by bit.

 

[MrX]

European

Toggleswitch,

I think many people outside the US don't actually realise that from inside the US the federal government's not really very different to a slightly more heavily armed version of the European Union and that the individual states are very independent and operate pretty much like individual countries with often seriously different legal systems etc.

In Europe, we've a similar scenario albeit a little looser. European legislation covers areas that need to be harmonised across the entire EU. Eg technical standards (which would be barriers to trade if they were different in each country), fiscial and economic policy (that would impact on the Euro currency's stability), consumer protection, transportation policies, telecommunication standards, environmental policies, compeition law, etc..

EU law also covers areas of social policy and fundemental rights and the European courts now have supreme juristiction and can overrule any national court should someone wish to appeal. They can also overturn / invalidate national legislation that is in conflict with European law. i.e. you can take a state to court.

We're also starting to more areas of cooperation e.g. policing. We now have a european police agency Europol, which operates on pan-european crime, a bit like the role the FBI has in the USA. However, national police can now cross boarders if they're in hot persuit, arrest and hold a suspect until their counterparts on the otherside of the state line arrive to process the suspect under national law there!

So, in many ways things aren't THAT different at this side of the pond !

As for power generation / distribution systems in Europe. We've open markets for electricity but these markets are fundementally far more highly regulated than in the USA. In many states the grid and distribution infrastructure is still publically owned (varies from country to country).
The major cascade / domino failure in the Northeastern USA has also prompted major concerns in Europe. Systems were heavily reviewed and regulation (particularly concerning extra capacity / redundency) were tightened up quite a lot.

Also, the national grids are mostly interconnected (Ireland's actually one of the last places to tie into the "european grid". Until recently, due to the distances to the UK our grid was totally seperate, however big ultra high voltage DC interconnectors are being layed to the UK at the moment)

Sorry for the length of the post, but just thought that I'd explain a few of the strong similarities between the EU and USA

 

[toggleswitch]

Sorry, I myself get a bit preachy and wordy at times. but I'm trying to keep to the thread.

I don't want to start a political (red-state- vs. blue-state) Being "pro" or "against" Bush... but Damn.. those "I HATE BUSH T-shirts are HILARIOUS especially when seen in gay community/areas. LOL

Back to the thread .... I was personally offended when our CEO publically blamed Canada for the last big-blackout on 14-Aug- 03 (You can see Canada's response by clicking on the link.) Bush promised to do something about the electrical infrastructue. I guess ignorng the problem, technically, is doing something.. SIGH.

May I be so bold as to speak for all my county-men? LOL
We the people love you Canada and apologize for our "leadership."

Loading…

www.cnn.com

 

[MrX]

Well, the lower the voltage, the warmer the wires, the more heat produced, the more oil used

He is an oil-rich texan after all!

 

[yaktx]

"Well, the lower the voltage, the warmer the wires, the more heat produced, the more oil used "

Actually, very little of US electric power is generated in oil-fired plants. But Bush does answer to the coal, gas, and nuclear interests. And yes, they do want us to go on wasting energy.

 

[kenmore1978]

talky/preachy

Don't worry about that, I've found this thread to be very interesting. Nice to learn how things are done in other places and compare.