interesting article

[murando531]

Yes, as they are using, again, DAY. LIGHT. bulbs. 5000K color temperature bulbs. It has nothing to do with them being LED.

So anyway, modern dishwashers’ only problem today is a bad case of user error and user refusal to accept that it no longer requires 10+ gallons to wash a load of dishes. Same for modern washers. I’d give a hefty sum if I found a pristine KitchenAid Superba Selectra top load washer because I’d love to have it to remind me of the era I grew up in and use occasionally for the nostalgia. Would it replace my current Tier 3 efficiency rating front loader? Absolutely not, because my laundry comes out stain free and cleaner, more well rinsed, and certainly more spun dry than any top load agitator machine ever has or possibly could and looks fantastic while doing it.

 

[pinkpower4]

Save energy but not at the cost of making the products unfit

I tried to save energy in the ways I can by being careful about the amount of water used for a bath, changing out the guts in the toilet to use more or less water depending on the situation, using fans to distribute air better in the summer vs. turning A/C up, wearing a jacket/sweater around the house in the winter, etc. I drive a vehicle that gets good gas mileage and not more than what I *need*.

However, these DOE regulations have made many products unfit for a particular purpose Unless you know what to buy, you are likely to end up (for example) with one of the HE washers that doesn't use enough water or warm enough to clean clothes. They are cheaper built too. The result? More time, energy, chemicals, additional water, etc. is used. They end up in the landfill much quicker. Though some have an easier to repair design (vmw), the reality is most people won't. The cost of repair and labor is often half or more of what they paid.

We went to to those flow saving faucets at work. Water barely trickles out. Thank goodness, this was fixed. Hand washing is key in trying to prevent the spread of COVID. The toilets used barely any water to flush. The result? Some very unpleasant surprises and lots more flushes to get the stuff to go down.

When I replaced my dishwasher almost ten years ago, I could not figure out why the new one didn't work. We were practically washing dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. You guessed it, lots more water than we had used in the past. The energy saving design was an issue but so was the change in the detergent. I now get better results with that same dishwasher using Cascade Boil out.

I am old enough to remember less is more. The old basic mechanical washers with transmissions and simple dishwashers just worked. Bring them back! Where you can save is to use something like a spin dryer. Seriously, I have noticed a difference in my electric bill from that ONE change. Clothes are dried in less than half the time, and line drying is much quicker which means I can take advantage of that option more too.

 

[johnb300m]

Nobody’s brining the old stuff back

Nothing short of President Camacho marching into Benton Harbor with militia in tow, is gonna bring back Direct Drive washers, or 12gal/cycle, big Gold Seal motor dishwashers.
http:&#92Notgonnahappen.com

Companies bringing back old platforms is patently anti-capitalist and anti-free market.
With the way commodities prices have soared over the decades.
How OEMs have outsourced all their motors and electronics etc.
Labor costs are up. Supply chains are purely global.
Goods are simultaneously more expensive to produce.
People make less money today to buy those goods.
Market pressures have pushed appliance prices to essentially stay the same.
All those extra costs get absorbed somewhere.

It’s in a company’s best interest to make the cheapest, lightest assembly as possible. For a couple reasons. They save the Co money.
Many parts are thinner, lighter, cheaper. Yet usually durable enough.
They’re easier to assemble. Faster. Smaller. Lighter to build and to ship, saving fuel. $$$
These smaller, lighter components have the market effect of keeping consumer price points low. Retail margins high, save customers money on the purchase and the life of the product which uses less energy and water. Since all the pumps and motors are smaller.
Especially dishwashers, are quieter today. Which is practically what most customers shop on.

No regular consumer today would buy a Hobart KA.
It’s too expensive, resource hog, LOUD, won’t work well with today’s detergents. Heavy AF. They won’t want to pay for extra weight shipping. Which is ALWAYS passed on to the customer.

No mfr today wants to build a large cast washer transmission today. Not even Speed Queen.
The last thing a company wants to do is run a casting operation. Nor do they want to pay for one if they can get a unitized nylon splutch assembly.
All’s it’s gots to do folks is live past the 1yr warranty point.
So it’s cheaper to make, ship and sell a HE TL washer. That’s how they’re still hitting the sub-$500 price in this age. Making a DD throwback would never sell so cheaply today. It can’t.
Less water and energy use = less costly construction.
THAT’S on the mfr’s best interest, and mostly the the consumers too.
So no relaxing of regulations is just gonna spring WP and GE back into yesteryear.
The Korean and EU mfrs certainly will not build less efficient models. Their home markets and governments demand also they do not.

As much as consumers whine about things, especially appliances, not being “built or performing as good as they used to. (Which I disagree with the 2nd statement)
Rarely ever would they be willing ... or ABLE to pay for an appliance that would be built so rugged today to last so long. That’s why Speed Queen is so expensive. And why most people would still get the $499 Samsung deal.

One thing I’m disappointed in is the abysmal warranty trend.
But I guess mfrs shirking their responsibilities has given birth to a whole new extended warranty busine$$. So it’s in that new business’s interest to lobby and partner with the OEMs to keep their warranty points low.

This is American business and unfettered (usually) free-market capitalism.
This is what we’ve all been told is good. Is the best. This is what we all vote for. With our wallets and our ballots. This is our bed. Lie down. Enjoy.

 

[foraloysius]

Led bulbs

There is totally no need for people to sit in blue light. I have only led lights and there is no difference with the past.

I have several of these. Color temperature is 2700, so very close to the incandescant light bulbs.

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/ryet-led-bulb-e26-450-lumen-globe-opal-00438713/

$0.99 per bulb, I think it's a bargain!

 

[lakewebsterkid]

One hour cycle

OK, so for this to work with a newer design of machine, of course water levels will need to be increased a bit, but it likely will run a lot like the current Whirlpool GW machines One-Hour cycle. Multiple fills and purges to obtain hot water (while also heating constantly), but also flush the junk out. However, I doubt that they are going to be able to create a machine that moves as much water as the older machines would due to design, space, and noise constraints as others have mentioned. Not to add, the extra water required for the increased water pressure will require longer heating times.
Again, as others have mentioned, the newer machines actually clean quite well if they are loaded and ran correctly with a decent detergent. The time does not really bother me at all since I know my dishes will be clean. I have used older dishwashers that do use a lot of water and pressure, but do not clean as well as you would expect with shorter wash times and newer detergents.
So in short, do I wish my Bosch used 1.0 gallon per fill instead of 0.8? Yes. Do I wish it used a slightly higher was temperature for the Normal cycle? Sure. However, the machine performs great as designed and a majority of my issues with the Normal cycle are alleviated with using the Auto cycle. So I don't really care. I also do not need dishes within one hour of starting my machine 99% of the time. Thats just me though. But I am very interested to see what this may bring to the market. I would die to see a machine with 1/3 hp motor with alternating spray arms and 1.0 gallon per fill if that would even work. But like Murando531 said, some of the newer machines can turn over plastic items still.

 

[kb0nes]

I find my LED lamps easily distinguisable from incandescent bulbs. They look FAR better!! Better color temperture and color rendering, no more dingy looking lighting.

Basing the look of indoor lighting on ultra high effiency roadway lighting is deeply flawed, but I suppose it could be used to attempt to sell an agenda.

I've had a 100% LED lit home for about 12 years now. I couldn't be happier with it and so far I've only had one lamp fail me.

 

[infusor]

how about making dishwasher detergents that actually work?

 

[vacerator]

I was going to mention detergent;

I use Gel Cascade in the pre wash cup, as it has bleach. My GE Profile has a plastic tub. It keeps it white. I use Finish max-in-one powerball tablets for the main wash. I buy them when they are on sale.
If our drinking glasses or protein shaker cups have residue from fiber, or protein, I select the steam option with the anti-bacterial cycle.
Without steam, the cycle takes from 88 to 92 minutes with air dry. With steam, from there to 115 min., which isn't real steam, but more of a soak as water drips on it for 15 minutes with the heater on between the pre and main wash. The extra hot moist air does make a difference on glassware. I also keep the rinse aid full.
I can live with that considering for the two of us, we do 2 lodas max. 3 per week.
The ony time a bowl or dish doesn't get sqeaky clean is if it has dried egg or starch on it and wasn't rinsed and sat for days. I wash cookware, and large bowls or platters by hand between loads.
As for LED lighting, I love it! My desk lamp is led, and is brighter for my hobby work. In the kitchen, to read by, in the bath, so I can see my grooming better.
I have common sense for the sake of posterity.

 

[lakewebsterkid]

Detergents

The amount of performance that phosphate free detergents have gained over the past 10 years has been immense though. I do feel though that they are designed for the newer machines that use lower temperatures and higher detergent/water solutions. However, I still add 1 teaspoon of STPP to the detergent dispenser regardless.

I have a friend that insists on using Seventh Generation Gel in the dishwasher, and there is nothing wrong with that. But, he has to use the Heavy/Pots and Pans cycle with high temp wash, sanitize, rinse, etc etc., in order to have somewhat clean dishes that were not all that dirty to begin with. But he finds that it is acceptable. It is similar to laundry, where some people are completely fine using a poor or middling performing detergent, but sitting there and legitimately scrubbing their clothes or washing them numerous times.

 

[henene4]

Maybe we are lucky over here

But most DW detergents work good enough, most well and many perfectly.

I guess built in water softeners are to blame at least somewhat?

Best example I have is my mum.

She's been using the same drug store house brand plain detergent tablets for years.
They were incredibly phosphate heavy and never let us down.

Then phosphates were banned.

But neither I nor her realized for a good solid year or so that the same product in the same packaging for the same price that cleaned just as well suddenly was something entirely different.

 

[eurekastar]

Detergent

Besides Cascade Fryer Boil Out in the short cycle, I also get very good results with the Walmart powder and a tsp. of STPP.