German testing lab highly rates Miele's new power wash system.
Interesting Report On Miele's "Power Wash" Cycles
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Having used such a machine
Yes, the system is impressive.
Main reason the label usage is higher is that the Eco cycles for a large part actually reach close enough to set temp with the Mieles.
The system delivers mord than satisfactory results with normaly soiled loads for the most part except for the ocasional outliers - but you have them with every machine.
You can still override all actions with certain options.
Yes, the system is impressive.
Main reason the label usage is higher is that the Eco cycles for a large part actually reach close enough to set temp with the Mieles.
The system delivers mord than satisfactory results with normaly soiled loads for the most part except for the ocasional outliers - but you have them with every machine.
You can still override all actions with certain options.
Another benefit of the miele powerwash cycle
If 60*C is selected thanks to the powerful heater it heats to 60*C in no time and spends quite a fair amount of time at 60*C which means its also good for a load of towels
Janak
If 60*C is selected thanks to the powerful heater it heats to 60*C in no time and spends quite a fair amount of time at 60*C which means its also good for a load of towels
Janak
The heater is just as powerful as many other machines at just about 2kW.
For those who like visuals...
Miele's Power Wash system:
Miele's Power Wash system:
jeb
Well-known member
I don't know, seems awfully gimmicky to me. You can only saturate something once, you can't make it more wet. If your detergent isn't dissolving and laying on the bottom you need better wash action or better detergent.
It's been years since read, and didn't bookmark or download, but recall an article on front loading washer design that spoke to re-circulation pumps.
Basically once you go below a certain amount of water per kg/lb of wash you must have re-circulation pump system, otherwise all sorts of problems pop up.
My AEG Lavamat has such a re-circulation system, but only uses it when being frugal with water. That is normal cottons/linens wash uses; but not many of the various delicate or hand wash cycles. The latter use higher water levels so am guessing that is behind.
Also if one chooses "starching" (which is really just an extra independent rinse) the re-circulation system is not used, but rather washer uses higher fill level.
As for detergent/product use; Miele used to make huge noise about their ball in sump feature that kept detergent in tub instead of going down sump. In theory product was kept in tub instead of being largely flushed down sump until tub was filled with enough water.
IMHO two pumps just means one more thing to break down and or want repair at some point. But with various government mandates and other forces pushing lower energy/water usage suppose will have to accept re-circulation pumps are the next big thing.
Basically once you go below a certain amount of water per kg/lb of wash you must have re-circulation pump system, otherwise all sorts of problems pop up.
My AEG Lavamat has such a re-circulation system, but only uses it when being frugal with water. That is normal cottons/linens wash uses; but not many of the various delicate or hand wash cycles. The latter use higher water levels so am guessing that is behind.
Also if one chooses "starching" (which is really just an extra independent rinse) the re-circulation system is not used, but rather washer uses higher fill level.
As for detergent/product use; Miele used to make huge noise about their ball in sump feature that kept detergent in tub instead of going down sump. In theory product was kept in tub instead of being largely flushed down sump until tub was filled with enough water.
IMHO two pumps just means one more thing to break down and or want repair at some point. But with various government mandates and other forces pushing lower energy/water usage suppose will have to accept re-circulation pumps are the next big thing.
I think the problem about detergent collecting at the bottom of the outer tub has nothing to do with detergent going down unused to the pump until various solutions like the ball in suds container or the "AEG Ökoschleuse" became a standard in late 1980s for more or less all European washers.
In early days of FL washers a certain amount of detergent was simply flushed down the empty hose leading to the pump as soon as the washer filled.
Today the problem seems that there is just not enough water in the tub to create enough turbulence or velocity to dissolve the detergent that collects at the bottom of (nowadays sealed) tubs entirely. I could imagine fast cycles at low temperatures also contributing to this.
In early days of FL washers a certain amount of detergent was simply flushed down the empty hose leading to the pump as soon as the washer filled.
Today the problem seems that there is just not enough water in the tub to create enough turbulence or velocity to dissolve the detergent that collects at the bottom of (nowadays sealed) tubs entirely. I could imagine fast cycles at low temperatures also contributing to this.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
I remember that the Hoover 'New Wave' with the eco ball sump valve wasn't always terribly effective... During the spin-bursts whilst washing, it was common to hear some water being forced down the drain.
In terms of effective reuse of undissolved detergent in the sump, I always thought that Zanussi had it down to a fine art with their 'Jetsystem'.
Nowadays though, Zanussi seems to have become even more like their bottom-of-the-barrel sister, Tricity-Bendix.
In terms of effective reuse of undissolved detergent in the sump, I always thought that Zanussi had it down to a fine art with their 'Jetsystem'.
Nowadays though, Zanussi seems to have become even more like their bottom-of-the-barrel sister, Tricity-Bendix.
The Miele powerwash is
Just as good as it says in the video, If you select water + it does not use the recirculation pump but instead profiles with water then takes in the detergent the pump then comes on when the machine is at temp. I must admit I do not tend to use the machine to its capacity as my dryer is not equal in size so would have to remove some to dry it properly but the washing machine is an excellent cleaner and I have to say I am most happy with the results.
Austin
Just as good as it says in the video, If you select water + it does not use the recirculation pump but instead profiles with water then takes in the detergent the pump then comes on when the machine is at temp. I must admit I do not tend to use the machine to its capacity as my dryer is not equal in size so would have to remove some to dry it properly but the washing machine is an excellent cleaner and I have to say I am most happy with the results.
Austin
jeb
Thing is exactly that you do not saturate the load.
At least with the 2.0 process.
(Really important to differentiate PowerWash and PowerWash2.0, entirely different things going on.)
The load is held at about 50-100% residual moisture and heated via steam.
The amount of water in a wash cycle while heating in total is usually 25-50% less compared to same load same cycle with a normal wash profile.
Thus energy usage is anywhere from 10% to 50% less - while still heating to the same temp.
Thing is exactly that you do not saturate the load.
At least with the 2.0 process.
(Really important to differentiate PowerWash and PowerWash2.0, entirely different things going on.)
The load is held at about 50-100% residual moisture and heated via steam.
The amount of water in a wash cycle while heating in total is usually 25-50% less compared to same load same cycle with a normal wash profile.
Thus energy usage is anywhere from 10% to 50% less - while still heating to the same temp.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Miele Powerwash 2.0
I wonder whether Miele will improve upon that. Are they able to reduce the water amount further still?
Would it be better to have a small separate tank (with heater) under the main tub in the sump;
1. Determine the load through initial dry spin and apply water and detergent by flowmeter accordingly to the separate sump tank;
2. Wet the load via recirculation pump from the separate sump tank with the tunnel effect;
3. Then use a system of tumbling and spinning the detergent solution out of the laundry back down to the sump tank;
4. Heat and repeat recirculation with tunnel effect?
I wonder whether Miele will improve upon that. Are they able to reduce the water amount further still?
Would it be better to have a small separate tank (with heater) under the main tub in the sump;
1. Determine the load through initial dry spin and apply water and detergent by flowmeter accordingly to the separate sump tank;
2. Wet the load via recirculation pump from the separate sump tank with the tunnel effect;
3. Then use a system of tumbling and spinning the detergent solution out of the laundry back down to the sump tank;
4. Heat and repeat recirculation with tunnel effect?
For that system you would only partially be abled to run normal wash cycles and the volume of water needed would probably be higher than what they use now.
Keep in mind this washer can run without issue without recirculation pump and the tub, heater, drum and basicly everything about the wash system is the same independent of which machine you have in front of you.
No extra parts, nothing.
On top of bound water, the washer uses only 2l of water for steaming.
Even with the largest loads running PW2.0, total water usage for heating and wash stage is only 10l.
And the steam is pretty good at heat transfer.
Once heating is done the washer does run another spin and spray cycle, sometimes 2, to equalize temperatures.
It does run recirculation for the remainder of the main washer in intervalls.
Keep in mind this washer can run without issue without recirculation pump and the tub, heater, drum and basicly everything about the wash system is the same independent of which machine you have in front of you.
No extra parts, nothing.
On top of bound water, the washer uses only 2l of water for steaming.
Even with the largest loads running PW2.0, total water usage for heating and wash stage is only 10l.
And the steam is pretty good at heat transfer.
Once heating is done the washer does run another spin and spray cycle, sometimes 2, to equalize temperatures.
It does run recirculation for the remainder of the main washer in intervalls.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Thanks!
Hmm.
Door hinged on the right.
Me like.
Door hinged on the right.
Me like.
Sadly that particular Miele model in the video, WKR 771 WPS, is no longer available online and I'm not sure it ever was available in the USA.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Powerwash versus Powerwash 2.0
Are the older 'Powerwash' models capable of being updated by service software updates to 'Powerwash 2.0' functionality, or are they significantly different beasts?
Are the older 'Powerwash' models capable of being updated by service software updates to 'Powerwash 2.0' functionality, or are they significantly different beasts?
Verry good question
From what I understand, hardware wise, all PW equipped machines have about the same pumps, tubs, heaters etc.
The one thing I am not sure is if the software of the motor controller can be updated to allow the load sensing required for PW2.0.
If it would be it should be, though that dosen't mean that Miele does it.
But all machines from 2nd gen onwards are PW2.0 anyway, so only a few verry early machines in the first year of production are not in question there anyway.
What I can tell you is that the different iterations of PW2.0 (first iteration only went on Cottons and Easy Care, later Delicates, Shirts and Automatic Plus had been added) are upgraded.
My machine didn't list the Delicates and Shirts cycle in the manual I think, but it used it on those cycles.
From what I understand, hardware wise, all PW equipped machines have about the same pumps, tubs, heaters etc.
The one thing I am not sure is if the software of the motor controller can be updated to allow the load sensing required for PW2.0.
If it would be it should be, though that dosen't mean that Miele does it.
But all machines from 2nd gen onwards are PW2.0 anyway, so only a few verry early machines in the first year of production are not in question there anyway.
What I can tell you is that the different iterations of PW2.0 (first iteration only went on Cottons and Easy Care, later Delicates, Shirts and Automatic Plus had been added) are upgraded.
My machine didn't list the Delicates and Shirts cycle in the manual I think, but it used it on those cycles.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
Thanks again.
I like the idea of the machine dynamically adjusting the water on the Delicates cycle for a few items. I always thought some other machines were incredibly wasteful consuming gallons of water on the same programme.
I like the idea of the machine dynamically adjusting the water on the Delicates cycle for a few items. I always thought some other machines were incredibly wasteful consuming gallons of water on the same programme.
