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Is he kidding on the price???
- Thread starter bwoods
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whirlcool
Well-known member
Well the first thing the seller should have done was to clean it up a bit, the cobwebs from sitting in the barn are still showing....
I date this unit back to 1963. An uncle of ours had a similar set he bought in 1963. The amp & turntable are the same as in this one, but he didn't have the reel to reel in it.
Did VM make the reel to reel units in these? It looks kind of VM'ish.
This seller would be lucky if someone paid him $100.00. GE was never known for their great sound.
I date this unit back to 1963. An uncle of ours had a similar set he bought in 1963. The amp & turntable are the same as in this one, but he didn't have the reel to reel in it.
Did VM make the reel to reel units in these? It looks kind of VM'ish.
This seller would be lucky if someone paid him $100.00. GE was never known for their great sound.
This would be closer to 1965, since it has the modern changer with the Tonal 1 arm on it. I think GE still had tubes in '63, don't know when they switched completely over to transistors. I like it, but more like $200 or a LOT less.
Thanks for posting this!
It's one of the funniest ads I've seen in a long time and I needed a good laugh!;-)
It's one of the funniest ads I've seen in a long time and I needed a good laugh!;-)
My recollection is that GE changed over to Solid State stereos in late 1964, for the 1965 model year.
Their uper middle line and TOL of the line actually sounded quite impressive. They had sealed acoustic chambers on some of their TOL models, for awhile, with acoustic insulation. Their cabinets were made by the William Tell Corporation and were heavy and of high quality (for the TOL models). No buzzes or rattles even with the deepest bass.
After about 1967, their consoles went South, pretty much. I think some of the bean counters at their audio divison plant in Decatur, Illinois, told them to start cutting corners.
In my opinion, their biggest downfall was using ceramic phono cartridges, instead of magnetic. Especially on their upper end consoles.
I am sure they did this to save adding an extra preamplifier stage. Those Tonal 1 changers, at least all the ones I ever had, could not track below about 3 to 4 grams. Even when I upgraded the cartridge, it would not track the record properly when I tried to get it down around two grams, and it could not trip when the arm got to the end of the record.
This may have been another reason for keeping ceramic cartridges. It was probably easier to do this than redesign the Tonal 1 or go to a different changer.
I think the upper line Tonal 1's through 1966 -67 were the most impressive looking changers on the market. Just not good at tracking and noisy in the changing cycle.
Their ceramic cartridge was quite competetive, as far as ceramic cartridges go, mut couldn't compete with the magnetic cartridges for detail in sound and tracking ability. The heavy tracking force was also hard on records.
Their uper middle line and TOL of the line actually sounded quite impressive. They had sealed acoustic chambers on some of their TOL models, for awhile, with acoustic insulation. Their cabinets were made by the William Tell Corporation and were heavy and of high quality (for the TOL models). No buzzes or rattles even with the deepest bass.
After about 1967, their consoles went South, pretty much. I think some of the bean counters at their audio divison plant in Decatur, Illinois, told them to start cutting corners.
In my opinion, their biggest downfall was using ceramic phono cartridges, instead of magnetic. Especially on their upper end consoles.
I am sure they did this to save adding an extra preamplifier stage. Those Tonal 1 changers, at least all the ones I ever had, could not track below about 3 to 4 grams. Even when I upgraded the cartridge, it would not track the record properly when I tried to get it down around two grams, and it could not trip when the arm got to the end of the record.
This may have been another reason for keeping ceramic cartridges. It was probably easier to do this than redesign the Tonal 1 or go to a different changer.
I think the upper line Tonal 1's through 1966 -67 were the most impressive looking changers on the market. Just not good at tracking and noisy in the changing cycle.
Their ceramic cartridge was quite competetive, as far as ceramic cartridges go, mut couldn't compete with the magnetic cartridges for detail in sound and tracking ability. The heavy tracking force was also hard on records.
I figured you would have a better answer
I'm a General Electric stereo nut. I know all their products weren't tip top or trash either, if I can find a 1960 GE Canterbury someday, like the one I found in our local dealer, I'd be soooooo happy.........
I'm a General Electric stereo nut. I know all their products weren't tip top or trash either, if I can find a 1960 GE Canterbury someday, like the one I found in our local dealer, I'd be soooooo happy.........
GE console hi-fi with RR deck-$2000? Again what is this seller taking or smoking-swap shop prices on these range from say $50 on up to $100.
anoher problem with ceramic cartridges is Compliance-the ability of the cartridge to properly track the groove-the cantilevers and ceramic-crystal elements in these are stiffer than magnetic cartridges-and gets worse as the cartridge gets older-undoubtly the cartridge in that GE Hi-Fi will have to replaced.And on the compliance-yes detail in the recording will bew smeared becuase of this.Grado makes a series of magnetic cartrdges that can be used in changer type TT's as found in that console-but of course the TT preamp will have to be added.The tape decks in those units are only so-so-all idler drive-single motor.Probably all of the idler tires will have to be replaced,the transport will have to be cleaned and lubed.3 motor pro type decks "age" better than the consumer single motor idler machines.Only exception was ampex 600 machines.since they were built for pro use-they hold up well-you do not find those in console Hi-fi units.Usually packaged as a component for Hi-fi use or in a case for feild recording use.Common radio station staple at one time.
anoher problem with ceramic cartridges is Compliance-the ability of the cartridge to properly track the groove-the cantilevers and ceramic-crystal elements in these are stiffer than magnetic cartridges-and gets worse as the cartridge gets older-undoubtly the cartridge in that GE Hi-Fi will have to replaced.And on the compliance-yes detail in the recording will bew smeared becuase of this.Grado makes a series of magnetic cartrdges that can be used in changer type TT's as found in that console-but of course the TT preamp will have to be added.The tape decks in those units are only so-so-all idler drive-single motor.Probably all of the idler tires will have to be replaced,the transport will have to be cleaned and lubed.3 motor pro type decks "age" better than the consumer single motor idler machines.Only exception was ampex 600 machines.since they were built for pro use-they hold up well-you do not find those in console Hi-fi units.Usually packaged as a component for Hi-fi use or in a case for feild recording use.Common radio station staple at one time.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
I have never tried upgrading a console stereo's cartridge. But if I were to do so, I think Grado would be my absolute last choice. At best, I'd be cautious. I've had experience with Grado on modern turntables. I like some things about the cartridges. Unfortunately, I (and others) have found them to be temperamental at times. Tracking isn't particularly good. And they can pick up hum from turntable motors (this varies on motor) and AC transformers in amplifiers. For a console stereo, I'd want something that "just works" with a minimum of fuss. Although the final decision would, of course, hinge entirely on the circumstances of the particular project (changer in question, my plans for how it will be used, etc).
Actually, as I think of it now, the cartridge I'd be tempted to try would be the Shure M44. It's sold as a DJ model. But the cartridge body was, back in the 60s, a home model--and one that was, for a short period, top of the line. How well it would work depends on the particular changer. But I'm pretty sure that my parents had Shure M44 upgrade to their low-end changer, and from my memory, it worked just fine there.
Actually, as I think of it now, the cartridge I'd be tempted to try would be the Shure M44. It's sold as a DJ model. But the cartridge body was, back in the 60s, a home model--and one that was, for a short period, top of the line. How well it would work depends on the particular changer. But I'm pretty sure that my parents had Shure M44 upgrade to their low-end changer, and from my memory, it worked just fine there.
General Electric C-200 stereo cartridge
After having read the preceding notes concerning cartridges, this looks less attractive to me. It has to be in the neighborhood of at least 50 years old. The original cartridge and maybe stylus in my '62ish GE set will not track at all. The arm moves freely and the changer works very well through its cycles.
After having read the preceding notes concerning cartridges, this looks less attractive to me. It has to be in the neighborhood of at least 50 years old. The original cartridge and maybe stylus in my '62ish GE set will not track at all. The arm moves freely and the changer works very well through its cycles.
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C-650
I believe it was a GE C-650 cartridge (with a lifetime warranted GE man-made diamond stylus) that my parents had in their General Electric console. I replaced it with a heavy tracking bottom of the line Shure magnetic. I bought a cheap solid state preamp, and it worked just fine.
It picked up a little rumble, and some hum, but normally you couldn't hear it except on very quiet passages. Even with that, it was quite an improvement over the ceramic cartridge. The music was much more clean and detailed.
I wonder what would happen today if someone took General Electric up on their "Lifetime warranty." They gave up their audio division a couple of decades ago when they sold their consumer electronics to Thomson, in France.
Do you think GE would still honor their lifetime warranty??
I wonder if you called their 1-800-GE Cares consumer hotline (and talked to someone in India, ha) and requested a replacement stylus for your 50 year old General Electric stereo if they would:
a.) send you a replacement stylus with a smile
b.) tell you its not their problem and refer you to Thomson, or
c.) laugh openly
I believe it was a GE C-650 cartridge (with a lifetime warranted GE man-made diamond stylus) that my parents had in their General Electric console. I replaced it with a heavy tracking bottom of the line Shure magnetic. I bought a cheap solid state preamp, and it worked just fine.
It picked up a little rumble, and some hum, but normally you couldn't hear it except on very quiet passages. Even with that, it was quite an improvement over the ceramic cartridge. The music was much more clean and detailed.
I wonder what would happen today if someone took General Electric up on their "Lifetime warranty." They gave up their audio division a couple of decades ago when they sold their consumer electronics to Thomson, in France.
Do you think GE would still honor their lifetime warranty??
I wonder if you called their 1-800-GE Cares consumer hotline (and talked to someone in India, ha) and requested a replacement stylus for your 50 year old General Electric stereo if they would:
a.) send you a replacement stylus with a smile
b.) tell you its not their problem and refer you to Thomson, or
c.) laugh openly
Hard to know what they'd do. Probably say General Electric never made record players. I did buy an incredibly cheezy late plastic wood GE changer that had a second needle and a couple of papers from the parts department. I know where the player is, but not the paperwork. Wish I had gotten what the dealer probably threw out here, bet they had some great product pics and info.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
"I wonder if you called their 1-800-GE Cares consumer hotline (and talked to someone in India, ha) and requested a replacement stylus for your 50 year old General Electric stereo if they would:"
D. Weasel out by saying the "lifetime warranty" is only the expected life of the product, which has come and gone, and not forever.
E. Put the caller on hold until the caller either gives up, or his or her lifetime ends, whichever comes first.
D. Weasel out by saying the "lifetime warranty" is only the expected life of the product, which has come and gone, and not forever.
E. Put the caller on hold until the caller either gives up, or his or her lifetime ends, whichever comes first.
I only knew one person that tried Grado-he had good luck with them.Currently,Grado cartridges are marketed to the "High End Audiophool" market.Grado also makes a line of headphones.don't know how good they are-haven't tried them.and the Grado phones are VERY expensive.Guess Grado had changed over the years.And factors to think about if you want to try to use magnetic cartridges in TT's not originally designed for them-Is the platter magnetic?this could effect tracking-Is the TT motor hum sheilded?And is the motor underneath the area where the tonearm tracks-in some TT's the motor is to the rear-out of the area of arm tracking.If it has to be in the tracking area-the motor is heavily Mu-metal sheilded to prevent magnetic hum feild radation to be picked up by the cartridge.Ceramic cartridges unaffected by these feilds-an advan tage for them.And yes,in many consoles amplifiers may be right under the TT-magnetic cartridges may pick up hum feilds from the amp transformers.If the amp is tubed-its heat bakes the lube out of the TT.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
tried Grado-he had good luck with them.
Despite my mini rant yestereday, I will say I'm not surprised by someone having good luck with Grado. I've heard lots of such stories.
My experience is mainly limited to one cartridge. Initially, I had thought it was luck of the draw. Then, I started doing the research, and hearing that I was not alone.
At the same time, however, there are people who've had zero problems with Grado. And Grado does some things very well. So well, in fact, that there are people who will never consider using anything else.
It may well be an issue of getting the right system. One fan repeatedly said that it was all in the arm--you had to have the right arm. You get that, and the Grado will sing. You get that wrong, and you'll have nothing but trouble.
Despite my mini rant yestereday, I will say I'm not surprised by someone having good luck with Grado. I've heard lots of such stories.
My experience is mainly limited to one cartridge. Initially, I had thought it was luck of the draw. Then, I started doing the research, and hearing that I was not alone.
At the same time, however, there are people who've had zero problems with Grado. And Grado does some things very well. So well, in fact, that there are people who will never consider using anything else.
It may well be an issue of getting the right system. One fan repeatedly said that it was all in the arm--you had to have the right arm. You get that, and the Grado will sing. You get that wrong, and you'll have nothing but trouble.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
"Grado also makes a line of headphones.don't know how good they are-haven't tried them.and the Grado phones are VERY expensive."
I have a pair of Grado SR60 headphones. These were the absolute bottom of the Grado line when I got them. I think they listed for about sixty dollars at the time. Not cheap, I suppose. But they were highly regarded back then as being high value headphones in terms of the performance they had for the money. My headphones have also been high value in the sense of lasting years with zero trouble.
It's hard for me to comment on the performance. I am not a heavy headphone user. And besides my opinion is just one opinion. On any audio product, you can almost certainly find people who love the product, and others who despise it.
That said, I've been happy with them. I mostly use them with a portable CD player (mostly a 1990s Panasonic), and they make CD quite listenable. In fact, that combination is the only thing I use for CDs at the moment.
The one problem with Grado is the comfort of wearing them. A lot of people have issues. Of course, comfort is subjective.
I have a pair of Grado SR60 headphones. These were the absolute bottom of the Grado line when I got them. I think they listed for about sixty dollars at the time. Not cheap, I suppose. But they were highly regarded back then as being high value headphones in terms of the performance they had for the money. My headphones have also been high value in the sense of lasting years with zero trouble.
It's hard for me to comment on the performance. I am not a heavy headphone user. And besides my opinion is just one opinion. On any audio product, you can almost certainly find people who love the product, and others who despise it.
That said, I've been happy with them. I mostly use them with a portable CD player (mostly a 1990s Panasonic), and they make CD quite listenable. In fact, that combination is the only thing I use for CDs at the moment.
The one problem with Grado is the comfort of wearing them. A lot of people have issues. Of course, comfort is subjective.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
One more comment about Grado, and I'll shut up
...at least for now.
One good thing about Grado: they are a US company, and they still make products here. I believe the SR60i headphones are still made here.
...at least for now.
One good thing about Grado: they are a US company, and they still make products here. I believe the SR60i headphones are still made here.
I never cared much for the GE built record changers, they're basically a cheapened version of the old Glaser Steers design, a company they bought out. The motors in these changers tend to hum, and that hum is transfered to the speakers even with nice soft motor mounts and a fresh idler wheel installed. The GE ceramic cartridges were quite good sounding and easy on records, and I don't consider 3 or 4 grams tracking force to be heavy at all. The switches and controls on the amp/tuner are cheap and often do not respond well to cleaning. A good Magnavox or Zenith console will knock it's socks off.
Ken D.
Ken D.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
I think Glaser Steers is the company that once fascinated me. If I recall right, it was the brand that made changers that would stop the turntable platter while changing records. Supposedly this was easier on records since there wouldn't be that drop, scrape and slip effect until the new record hit speed. I only saw ads for this changer. It would be interesting to see one in action. I didn't know that they'd been bought out by GE--but I do know the name seems to be lost in history. I
"I don't consider 3 or 4 grams tracking force to be heavy at all."
There is almost a paranoia about tracking force and getting it as low as possible. I have heard it argued that when one considers the coverage area of the stylus, an older conical stylus that tracks at 3 grams may well have a per square inch pressure that is no worse than a modern elliptical.
Another factor worth mentioning: going to a tracking force that's too low can actually cause more wear than a high tracking force. Too low a force can mean serious mistracking, which will cause more wear and tear.
"I don't consider 3 or 4 grams tracking force to be heavy at all."
There is almost a paranoia about tracking force and getting it as low as possible. I have heard it argued that when one considers the coverage area of the stylus, an older conical stylus that tracks at 3 grams may well have a per square inch pressure that is no worse than a modern elliptical.
Another factor worth mentioning: going to a tracking force that's too low can actually cause more wear than a high tracking force. Too low a force can mean serious mistracking, which will cause more wear and tear.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
GE ceramic cartridges were quite good sounding
I have no experience with GE ceramic cartridges. But I have heard many good things about their VR cartridges (which were magnetic). Even now, the VR series is a respected choice for certain applications, like playing 78 RPM records and mono LPs.
I had, many, many years ago a phonograph that had a GE VR cartridge on it. It's hard to say how good it was--this is ancient history, and it occurred at a time when I thought a rack system was as good as it got. But what I can say is that phonograph was the first time I actually listened to any sort of "serious" music. That was partly by the fact that my understanding was the GE cartridge could only play mono LPs. (Old mono cartridges can COMPLETELY DESTROY a stereo LP.) The only mono LP I could find was a Beethoven 5th Symphony, seriously worn (ex-library, bought at a used book sale), so that was what I played. But I remember actually playing that record a lot. I can even imagine driving my parents nuts with it. ("Oh, no! He's playing the Fifth again!" [Loud scream of anguish.]). That heavy playing of that record strongly suggests that the old phonograph with GE cartridge was doing something right.
I have no experience with GE ceramic cartridges. But I have heard many good things about their VR cartridges (which were magnetic). Even now, the VR series is a respected choice for certain applications, like playing 78 RPM records and mono LPs.
I had, many, many years ago a phonograph that had a GE VR cartridge on it. It's hard to say how good it was--this is ancient history, and it occurred at a time when I thought a rack system was as good as it got. But what I can say is that phonograph was the first time I actually listened to any sort of "serious" music. That was partly by the fact that my understanding was the GE cartridge could only play mono LPs. (Old mono cartridges can COMPLETELY DESTROY a stereo LP.) The only mono LP I could find was a Beethoven 5th Symphony, seriously worn (ex-library, bought at a used book sale), so that was what I played. But I remember actually playing that record a lot. I can even imagine driving my parents nuts with it. ("Oh, no! He's playing the Fifth again!" [Loud scream of anguish.]). That heavy playing of that record strongly suggests that the old phonograph with GE cartridge was doing something right.
