Is there a future for dry cleaning?

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neptunebob

neptunebob

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Pittsburgh, PA
I was reading the thread about the do-it-yourself Westinghouse dry cleaning machine and what people were saying there and I was wondering if we will see dry cleaning in the near future. I have 1 good suit and it is about the only thing I own that needs dry cleaning.

My dry cleaner who is a trusted member of the community tells me that if PERC is banned in PA that most will just retire if they are older and most of them are older. Are there other chemicals they can use that are safer? Another thing is that people do not dress sharp anymore and so do not need sharp clothes that need dry cleaning. If you ever watch an Alfred Hitchcock movie, did you ever notice how everyone, even the villains, are sharp dressers? Dry cleaning must have had it's heyday in the 50s.

Near me about 20 years ago a dry cleaner went out of business and they were mad at the landlord and they spread PERC everywhere, all down the drains and it was a Superfund site. A whole hillside was removed, a retaining wall had to be built adn all new fill had to be placed there. There are just now opening stores there.

I also learned that dry cleaning machines that use CO2 as a solvent must contain very high pressures and cost upwards of a million dollars.

Anyone thing PERC will be banned. See this video about PERC and I wonder, why do dry cleaning places seem so dirty in the background, or does it just look that way?

 
Clamp down on PERC was just another nail in coffin

Truth to tell across North America and much of Europe dry cleaners and laundries have been decreasing in numbers for two or more decades.

First salvo over bow was widespread adoption and use of domestic laundry equipment. This in conjunction with new (man made) textiles and other fabrics meant there was less need to have things dry cleaned or professionally laundered. Coupled with this was fact people's standards began to change. By 1960's and certainly 1970's people began going with less formal standards in all areas including clothing.

Last bit held out at least for office/business attire, weddings and other formal events a bit longer, then came "casual Fridays". Once people started going to work in their jammies (ok *not* but you get the picture) it meant once core business for dry cleaners began to dry up.

Across board dry cleaners all say same; customers are decreasing while margins are razor thin. For many places it simply isn't worth bothering to upgrade equipment (to meet new local or federal standards).

All this was before covid hit, that event simply was just often the last straw.

https://bronx.news12.com/bed-stuy-dry-cleaner-forced-to-close-after-50-years-of-service

https://www.businessinsider.com/dry-cleaners-industry-slowly-dying-chart-2022-9



https://fox8.com/news/dry-cleaning-owner-retiring-after-65-years-in-cleveland-heights/

 
Places also are closing because either they cannot find staff and or owner(s) want to retire. Their children usually are not interested in working in/running a dry cleaner or laundry which is fine, their parents did all that hard work for years to make sure their children became professionals, not stuck working in a laundry.

https://www.sootoday.com/local-news...n-thunder-bay-to-dry-clean-your-shirt-5748242



One constant for dry cleaners and laundries is they often have high fixed costs (utilities, water, labor, etc..) but face limits on pricing. Dry cleaners and laundries also are very sensitive to increases in costs of doing business, especially rent.



 
Then there are things that are labelled "dry clean only" bit in reality you can handwash them or in a machines gentle cycle. I've had some winter coats like that and took a chance on one and it came out fine.

There's also the risk to not just the workers in the laundry from the perc fumes but to yourself from the residual gassing. It's recommended you remove the plastic garment cover and let the item air out outside for a day .

I'm having a time just think where in this small burg any laundry/dry cleaners remain. THere used to be numerous of them even doing pickup and delivery.
 
And I remember that kind of recently [semi recently]

My local dry cleaner next to a self service car wash shut up shop, and before that it was the dry cleaner located at a petrol station next to a main throughfare , And I think they were franchisee locations known as “bells” which they also used to do photo processing back in the day, there’s a similar looking dry cleaner that was potentially under the same franchisee name a little bit under 5 miles from me,

that place is quite poorly rated and apparently they work with the alteration store upfront and a lot of people haven’t been happy with them, either the dry cleaner or the alterations store,

although I do know that there is a locally owned and operated dry cleaner/Launderette [laundromat with an attendant that also does service washing], occasionally come in there every 2/3 months if I wanna Wash something large or do my laundry there and use the twin Bock extractors that they have, honestly if I know of anything that actually needs to be dry cleaned, that place is getting my money

Although I’ve never used their dry cleaning services simply because I don’t really have anything else drycleanable, mom has some curtains but that’s probably about it, so maybe if I’ve got a bit of laundry that needs washing and she wants to dry clean the curtains,

I could probably do it together at the same place And unlike some other places that I’ve been this place actually does use hot water in comparison to the other laundromat that I know of that has automated Bock extractors[The one you load the laundry and put a cover over the basket close the lid and insert a coin and then it’ll open when it’s done And after the basket has stopped

Sorry for hijacking the thread and running off on a tangent, please continue
 
In the late 80s we had a former drycleaning business building that looked like it was from the 1950s. It was closed and fenced off. Later found out it was on the EPA's superfund site list.

I feel bad for those who worked with this toxic stuff.

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Can someone tell me HOW this chemical actually was involved, what it did?

In the 70s my mother was always stopping to pick up drycleaning and so we had all these wire hangers with the papers advertisement of the drycleaner.
They were always covered in this plastic and they didn't smell good.

Then I remember in the 80s reading that one shouldn't breath the air inside of closets where dry clean clothing has been hanging.

In the early 80s I even tried taking a few pieces to the drycleaner because there was a tag on them that was dryclean only. When I got them back, they were still dirty. One was a white comforter blanket. One could clearly see dirt on the edges. I even took it back and complained. She said they could run it through again but it wouldn't make a difference and she was correct.

I've seen clothing from like GoodWill that has the tag on it and they always look dirty, unusually flat or ironed, but dirty. And they seem to weigh more than they should.

So, if the dry cleaner doesn't clean the clothes, they end up smelling bad, they are toxic, they're uncomfortable and weigh more than normal clothes.... why would one want to spend money on those services?

I get a full service laundry. Someone may pick up, sort, mend, wash, iron, fold, and re-deliver your clothing for a fee. That makes sense.

Frankly, I can't think of the last time I saw an open dry cleaner business.

One used to see the signs along with the photomat store, the Singer sewing center, the watch repair shop, the town bar, the supper club, the vacuum cleaner store, and the bakery.

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Very long story short

Dry cleaning isn't exactly "dry". Rather solved is charged with certain percentage of water. This is because not all soils will dissolve in solvent, just as not all will do same in water either.

As with laundering very best dry cleaners will pre-treat, pre-spot or clean heavily soiled areas and or deal with stains not likely to be removed during dry cleaning process. This obviously is time consuming and labor intensive so you can guess what happens.

Ground in dirt such as hems of gowns (think bridal), cuffs, collars and so on generally need to be pre-treated or cleaned before dry cleaning as the soil (dirt) doesn't normally come off totally otherwise.

As for "dirty smell" or whatever dry cleaning solvents are supposed to be filtered between uses and changed when dirty. Making up fresh solvent baths cost money so many places will reuse solvent baths long past its shelf life. Result is things that aren't clean and smell awful.
 
"Dry Clean Only"

I stopped dry cleaning all of my better clothes except wool years ago. It was expensive and I also felt that the "dry clean only" tag was to protect the reputation of the manufacturers who used inferior fabrics or a combination of different fabrics that might not come out of the washer or dryer nicely. ie: Item made of one fabric with trim made of another.

 

I was right. I threw non-wool tailored suits in the washer regularly with no ill effects. Some I hung to dry, others went in the dryer on low for a short time, then on air fluff.

I'm retired now so my biggest challenge is getting the cuffs on my t-shirts to not flip up.
smiley-cool.gif
 
Hi Brad

If your interested..click over to the Imperial side and look for the past thread titled
“Westinghouse coin operated dry cleaning machine”
There you’l find some explanation of the process.
Laundress is correct that there are solvent soluble stains and water soluble stains.
I’m not sure about “certain percentage of solvent is charged with water”
Water was never added to perchloroethylene. (Perc)
What was added to working tank was a detergent made for perc and some sizing also made for perc.
This was measured at 1 or 2 percent for the total number of gallons a working tank held. And once added was considered to be “charged” opposed to say a second tank on machine that was not in use and held pure solvent. (Uncharged)
So..if you got dirty clothes back from dry cleaners..someone wasn’t doing their job. And if they felt heavy after dry cleaning or still had a strong whiff of perc..then there was insufficient extraction during reclaiming process. AKA someone not doing their job or not knowing their job.
 
My mom always had the dry cleaning sign every week in the window.
My dad was an ice cream rep/delivery guy.His suits were a very scratchy denim material.
Part of the deal with the ice cream plant was free dry cleaning.
Dad couldn't stand the smell of the suits if they got wet.
Mom started washing them and the shirts. The company wanted to know why he wasn't submitting bills for cleaning?
He told them why and you could wash the suits. The free dry cleaning stopped.
On a side note I am good friends with the local undertaker.
If clothing comes in for the recently deceased it is gone over before dressing.
Shirts taken out of a closet for years that have turned yellow get washed and everything gets pressed.
 
At least in the EU, modern dry cleaning machines are basically 100% sealed.
Can't even open the door unless sensors confirm laundry is 100% solvent free.
So pollution of dry cleaning site ans exposure of personnel is close to 0.

The solvent is distilled over and and over, needing pretty rare replacement.

But it does need to be replaced every once in a while, and PERC is nasty.

There are several alternative solvent solutions - but these often need newer dry cleaning machines to be used.

A new dry cleaning machine is in the low to mid 5 digits - so many will just close up shop.

I don't think all will go away though.

Germany has a few mail in solutions and I guess that's basically the future of that.
Have one centralised site doing all the cleaning for huge areas.
Many dry cleaners in my region are just drop off sites. Van collects all the laundry fron the sites once or twice a day, and returns what's done.

There are completely environmentally neutral systems that use supercritical CO2 under very high pressure.
Machines are even more pricey, but faster, gentler and more efficient.

So there are certainly solutions to the low volume high investment issue, but it certainly is on the downturn.
 
Dry Cleaning

I highly doubt it, but it seems that the Tide Dry Cleaners in Southwest Ohio are fairly popular.
I vaguely remember my parents having a few items dry cleaned. Though, they don't any more.
I know my grandparents would take their couch cushions off and take them to the local dry cleaners once a year. It always seemed to do the job, but never understood why a gentle cycle in the washer wouldn't work. But that stopped once they purchased leather couches.
 
The famous pianist Liberace came very close to dying from the fumes in his dry cleaned clothes.

 

A quote from Wikipedia:

<span style="font-size: 12pt;">"<span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-weight: normal; line-height: 19.05px;">On November 22, 1963, he suffered kidney failure, reportedly from accidentally inhaling excessive amounts of </span>dry cleaning<span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-weight: normal; line-height: 19.05px;"> fumes from his newly cleaned costumes in a </span>Pittsburgh<span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-weight: normal; line-height: 19.05px;"> dressing room, and nearly died. He later said that what saved him from further injury was being woken up by his entourage to the news that </span>John F. Kennedy<span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-weight: normal; line-height: 19.05px;"> had been </span>assassinated<span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-weight: normal; line-height: 19.05px;">. Told by doctors that his condition was fatal, he began to spend his entire fortune by buying extravagant gifts of furs, jewels, and even a house for friends, but then recovered after a month"</span></span>
 
Well naturally someone like Liberace the way he’d donned all those furs and rhinestones he’d probably even needed his underwear dry cleaned…

Take your pick of the videos of a very famous and actually not fictional dry cleaner who’d sang doing his work at his shop and at a few local talent shows thereby encouraged to book himself at a big time hall in New York City to put his would be professional skills to the test only to return home unable to make big time turning to his native profession he’d at least make himself his best audience at full time:

The late-Harry Chapin and “Mr. Tanner”…

P.S. Martin Tubridy the man Tanner is based on and who was surprised the song was about he’d never even actually heard until people started calling him and emailing him as this was the beginning of the internet sings it himself invited by Harry’s band after Chapin had passed and performed it locally near the subject’s hometown…

— Dave

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Mr.+Tanner+Harry+Chapin
 
Thanks everyone who posted links and gave info about this process.

-----

All I can say is how absolutely disgusted I am with the information. It's way worse than I imagined.

They used gasoline and kerosene at one point on clothing? UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
That's so gross and so dangerous.

It just proves once again about how people are just a bunch of drama queens.
I always thought I had a few peculiarities but increasingly I see I'm friggin boring compared to the crap some people get themselves involved with.

Wearing gasoline soaked clothing. lets consider that just for a moment.

Connecting a living humans hair to electric wires to induce curled hair back in the early 1900s.

smoking

drinking alcohol (poison) on purpose

people injecting botox (a poison) into their foreheads to temporarily get rid of wrinkles.

people paying $10,000 for a 48" built-in double wide refrigerator

people paying over $100,000 for a .... pick-up truck (glorified farm/work vehicle)

Imelda Marcos had how many pairs of shoes?

the list goes on and on..... lol



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I found out ...

that small three store 1960s built stripmall where we used to shop or use services for all three places was recently demolished as it's been abandoned for several years.

Originally a Super Valu grocery, a pharmacy, and the one hour martinizing on the end.

The site is apparently contaminated. This is just one of thousand of stores around the country. According to the article, all it takes is for there to be a couple of spills and the chemical easily seeps through the slab and into the ground and it doesn't break down. Surely people must have paid with their health from working around such chemicals.

I can't believe ANYONE would want to work in such a place or that anyone would want to have their garments drycleaned.
(sigh)

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There was a old

term in dry cleaning that some referred to as “slop spotting”
It was before my time.
From what I was told, it was a method of mixing perc and some other VOC and NVDS in a small bowl, then dipping a spotting brush into the bowl and applying to certain stains.
The dry cleaning machine I worked with the longest in my time..I guess wound be considered a first generation machine with separate reclaimer (dyer) as pictured above in Bobs post.
My guess would be it was manufactured in the 30s or 40s as well as most of the other equipment in the plant. And I’m certain the machine did not have a sensor to sense moister.
(I have a pic of it I’ll try to post)
I’m not aware of “homogenous water and solvent” I do know that solvent is much heavier than water. And that water was never added to solvent.
(At least not in my machines)
 
As a side note

In the other thread I mentioned air/steam gun vacuum on spotting board, spotting brushes and spotting bone. That was not a type o. We called it a spotting bone.
This will offend some..but it was actually and piece of polished ivory.
 
Found the photo

Of dry cleaning machine I worked with the longest. Sorry she was old when I got there!
Also what looks to be a patent drawing of something similar.

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While I know this is a forum where people may be fond of the technology and machines used in dry cleaning, I’m glad to see it disappearing. It’s an extremely environmentally unfriendly process, even with newer solvents.

Environmental regulations here (and I can only speak for the EU) tightened and so did regulations to prevent exposure to toxic chemicals and that has probably reduced the number of in-store machines and replaced them with more controlled, larger facilities with more advanced equipment.

Fashions have changed though, particularly the fizzling out of the suit and tie type culture in the office and also washing machine have become more capable of doing very gentle yet effective cycles for wool and delicates

I’m glad to see dry cleaning becoming much more niche. It needed to be consigned to the history books tbh. It’s just not justifiable for our own vanity when there are better, safer and less damaging ways of cleaning clothes.
 
A little off on a tangent...

One of the reasons Kodachrome film was discontinued was because the developing process was an environmental disaster. There must be other Kodak films that could be use that are just as or almost as good that are not so obnoxious to develop. Most photography is digital now anyway.
 
Just realized

"As for "dirty smell" or whatever dry cleaning solvents are supposed to be filtered between uses and <span style="text-decoration: underline;">changed when dirty.</span> ...."

 

Changed?  I'm just trying to picture WHO would change this chemical out and WHAT they did with it.

This is a highly hazardous chemical.

 

Did a contractor in a hazmat suit come in, transfer the chemical into a sealed drum and then the drums have accumulated in a hazardous waste dump somewhere? 

 

 

I don't have a problem believing that 'back in the day' perhaps prior to 1970s, there were no warnings and the shop owners themselves were handling this stuff barehanded.....and they did WHAT with the vats?

 

When a washing machine launders clothing, the clothes mix with a fairly harmless soap, and the dirty water and detergent is flushed down the drain to hopefully be cleaned at a municipal water treatment plant.

 

Not at a dry cleaner.  Apparently a drycleaner didn't even need plumbing in their shops.  The owner could simply use his neighbors bathroom when he needed to heave from the chemical smells.

 

 

"Making up fresh solvent baths cost money so many places will<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> reuse solvent baths</span> long past its shelf life. Result is things that aren't clean and smell awful."

 

So, people would drop off their clothes,

along with their neighbors,

the clothes would basically all go in and get "cleaned" in the same stagnant, constantly re-used batch of .....chemicals. 

The same batch of chemicals were probably used for months, perhaps YEARS at a time. 

The clothes didn't even get rinsed.

 

OMG, I feel dirty just writing that.  

YUCK.   

I'll bet most people thought a drycleaners was similar to a full-service laundry and had no idea how disgusting it was.

 

And unlike the photo developers and their dirty batch of chemicals who were actually providing a useful service that at the time, there was no alternative to; dry-cleaning was NEVER a necessary service. 

One could get similar results with a full service laundry that could use ironing machines and spray starch to get crisp pressed clothes.  

 

 

Then I remembered around 1990 there was this dry carpet cleaning chemical that I saw being sold at Sears.

I believe it was called Capture, but it could have been something other.

I'm curious if this stuff is made from the same ......chemical yuck that was used in these dry(not)clean machines

 

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In today's Picture of the Day (8/2/23) how was the dry cleaning done there?

The pic is a self-service laundry featuring RCA Whirlpool washers and dryers so did it have any staff to do the dry cleaning work? And offer such a afull service dry cleaning back in that day when it was much more common?

The idea and practice perhaps nowadays is so outmoded by modern fabrics that such may be possible to wash suits, dresses and gowns like you do regular clothing and even easily get stains our of your neckties...

-- Dave
 

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