Isn't this interesting.....

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OLDHOUSEMAN, You have not....

...sustained personal email attacks from me. I sent you what was posted here and nothing more. You really need to get off your high horse. All you seem to do is bitch. You're just a bitter old man for some reason that hasn't come to light here, and that's really sad. There will NEVER come a day that I will not fly the flag of AMERICA. Anyone that doesn't want to really needs to look at other countries to live in. Why live in a country where you don't like anything about it??? I don't work to give my money to sorry asses. I put my money and efforts to work for people that are trying to make a go of it, and animals that can't control what happens to them. You are just a sad, sad, pathetic old man.
 
perc-o-prince

I put the post on the site as I didn't believe the email when I first got it, and so looked it up on Snopes. Snopes verified it, so YES, it's true. It's A REAL A SAD day when a major network sends a memo like that. All of a sudden, America is ashamed of America???....it's people, it's flag, it's heritage??? What the hell is going on here????
 
Thanks Mark

you made my point.

You are the bitter "old man".

Trying to make a point in public what you "think" you have done for society.

That is really a sad reflection.

Don't send me anymore emails about yourself. They are pathetic. And don't make attacks.

You may certainly post your "opinions" but don't be upset when they are challenged.

Many have different opinions from yourself.

At least for the moment I still live in America.

And hope people like you cannot impose your opinions on everybody else.
 
Lithium anyone?

Nor have you from me....

Oldhouseman~

You are a liar.. I have never sent you an email where I have attacked you, and you damn well know it.

Trust me, I have better things to do with my time. I have friends on this site who I have disagreed with and thankfully we have worked those issues out through email and such. You, on the other hand, I don't know, and based on what I am seeing on this site, I have no desire to know you. I have no interest in surrounding myself with a bitter, old, queen who spends the majority of his days looking for a fight on this website.
So, there you go, now you can say I attacked you, and have it be the truth. How's that?


AND.. if I want to defend my friend Mark, that is my damn business, not yours.

so kiss my a**
 
I agree with Sandy completely. The "good old days" of news reporting was reporting. Not the BS we see today on TV that passes itself off as reporting, which is nothing short of a national disgrace. Kind of like judges who prefer to make the law rather than simply interpret it.

I could give a crap what any reporter thinks, it's not his/her job to broadcast their opinion, just report the friggin news as it happened in a completely impartial, neutral manner. The old days were journalism, today we have a cacaphony of twisted facts and complete lack of credibility of the news media in general.

This story highlights a good concept....bring back the old days of real journalism, when reporters were impartial, had integrity, and reported the news as the news actually happened. Maybe then some of us would watch TV news again, and actually trust what is being reported.
 
Pardon me...

This is getting entirely too personal.

Mark, you posted what you did because you felt that ABC was directing staff not to show support for America. What about the reason Sandy gave:

"There was a time when ABC would not have sent out such a memo, because it once would not have had to - there was a time when journalists subscribed to the dictum of absolute impartiality. To wear a flag pin or engage in any other sort of nationalist display on an international story was considered a breach of that impartiality. Time was, anyone reporting on TV wore a plain blue suit and a carefully neutral facial expression, because the news was supposed to be the facts - nothing less, and nothing more."

In my opinion, that sounds right. The news is crap now, right or left wing, it's all crap. It's news entertainment because a large part of society doesn't have the attention span to watch anything that isn't fast cutting and laden with graphics.

I can respect anothers religious beliefs, but in my opinion, organized religion has created a whole lot of screwed up gay men. Religion will continue to be attacked as long as said religions continue to get all worked up over victimless issues. If homosexuality is a problem then don't do it! The same with gay marriage.

This country has more serious social issues than continually rehashing victimless moral issues.

Now Greg, what does it matter if Mark has money. We all live the life we have and make. Nothing is fair, nor did anyone ever claim it would be.

I'd like a morally liberal canidate that's financially conservative this November. Sadly, both canidates suck.
 
Well, Andrew~

The state of 24 hour, Cable news media sensationalism has left me wanting to throw up from absolute overkill. What would be the best way to defeat this trend toward "reality" TV news? The same logic from before still applies -stop watching it, but we won't and they know this.
As you know, my ex was an EP for the CBS affiliate in Miami, and he always would say "If it bleeds it leads" That is the mentality of local affiliates and major news outlets today. It is all about ratings and being the first with the scoop.
 
Agreed Travis

you are right.

This is not the forum to air personal opinions on such matters and that was my point. And I do not see why Mark and Shane seem determined to make everybody agree with their personal views. That was my only point.
 
Old, Bitter Houseman

I have hit the ignore button from here on out. I cannot continue to argue with the mentally challenged.

I hope one day soon Robert will realize the damage you are beginning to inflict on his website. My guess is he will.

Nite Nite boys!
 
"I have no interest in surrounding myself with a bitter, old, queen who spends the majority of his days looking for a fight on this website"

Shane, I don't mean to get on anyone's bad side, but Greg didn't start this thread or the other politically charged thread before it. Take a look at the first post above and on the Obama one.

I'm not slamming Mark. I'm just pointing something out to you.

I would really like this stuff to stop. Good people becoming adversaries is not what the AW site was meant to foster. Quite the opposite. You, Mark and Greg all make positive contributions to this site. It would be great if that continued without hiccups like this.

Ralph
 
What Ralph said. But I understand the frustration. Most forums I participate in have a right or far right political bent, and it's brutal being outnumbered.

But after all the vitriol, feelings are hurt but no one's viewpoint is changed. I mean have you ever heard anyone say they changed their choice of candidate, or position on an issue etc because of an online discussion? I haven't. So what's the real point here?

Mark's initial post was just a link to a news story, and IMO it didn't warrant a personal attack -- even though I completely agree with Greg's assessment of our country. We're watching our economy, housing market, industrial base etc etc collapse before our eyes, while we scream at each other about lapel pins and same-sex marriage.
 
IMO we can thank Karl Rove------

for teaching America how to divide and attack each other. Never in my life had I ever seen the likes. Oh, we Americans always had our issues, but we always seemed to pull together for a common cause rather than dividing ourselves into this or the other "camps".
Then we feel we must PROVE ourselves "right" or "wrong".
As a political strategy this certainly worked. As a social strategy it has been a disaster for "We the People".

Remember folks-----we are all human and we all make mistakes.
If you live your lives refusing to allow others to be human and make mistakes-----then don't expect to be forgiven for your own shortcomings when they arise----and they will.

Personally, I kind of like Clinique's "Honey Black" lip-gloss.
 
> IMO we can thank Karl Rove------
for teaching America how to divide and attack each other

I think you're giving Mr. Rove way more importance than he deserves. All Rove did was capitalize on mass hysteria and teach Mr. Bush and his administration how to make political careers out of fear and terror. And 12 year-old could have done the same, if that 12 year-old was the spawn of Satan and had no conscience or moral values.

I have my own (probably off-the-wall to most here) theory about this. I believe America signed it's own death sentence when the USSR collapsed. Before that point, we as a nation had a credible external threat to our existence. And ever since that point we've replaced these external threats with internal ones -- our own population -- everything from the "war on drugs" to "the culture war" to illegal immigrants, etc etc etc.

In other words, the same military-industrial machine responsible for fabricating a never-ending stream of boogeymen (created exclusively to justify obscenely large, wartime Pentagon budgets during peacetime) since the end of WWII, and which Eisenhower specifically warned us about, finally ran out of credibility. Korea. Vietnam. Cuba. And towards the end these boogeymen got downright ridiculous: Panamanian drug lords, Nicaraguan rebels, Kosovo etc. The current comedy team du jour is al Qaeda, for whom Bush has been the perfect straight man.

And since it's 9/11 today, let's mark the occasion with the biggest celebration of freedom in U.S. history. Let's send a note of sincere thanks to al Jazeera, thanking al Qaeda for restoring New York's skyline to its pre-WTC proportion and beauty. And then let's send a one-line note to the new president of Pakistan, telling her she has exactly 72 hours to produce Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar and Al-Zawahiri ("The Doctor"), or else we will march 250,000 of our troops into their country and find these coward-ass thugs ourselves.

Sound like fun?
 
Same old shit every four years!

Everyone wants to kill each other on the site.

There are plenty of places on the WWW to fight with someone, not here guy's.

eat a piece of cake and stop it, PLEASE!

9-11-2008-08-06-19--bethann.jpg
 
Bethann, that looks wonderful....I'll take two please. And yeah, you're right, every 4 years, same old shit here. Now pass me a plate and a fork while I tune out the TV News!!
 
I'll take a piece

Bethann, and thank you.

There are many contributing factors to our current political polarization. I think the horror of 9/11 did quite a bit of damage to this country's equilibrium.
The impeachment of Bill Clinton really kicked the culture wars into high gear. The double standard of republicans in congress became apparent in those days. It has only worsened since then. After the last three Supreme Court decisions against this administration on basic Constitutional law, can anyone really suppose the republicans would not have pushed for impeachment if the sitting president had not been a republican?
I do believe the way the 2000 elections were conducted, especially in Florida, together with the Supreme Court decision on who was to be president had two consequences.
First, it gave the incoming administration a sense they could play fast and loose with the Constitution. We have a saying in Germany which goes: How things begin, so they continue.
Second, today everyone acknowledges that the 2000 election was rigged and the republican win was unconstitutional. It has taken awhile, but conservatives felt better accepting the facts after Bush won in 2004.
Legally.
For those of us who didn't vote for him this was a shock. Until 2000, it had always been an American tradition that the loser accept his or her loss. For the United States to actually hold elections, then ratify them in the same manner as South American dictatorships do or the communists in Europe was a blow which left us reeling.
That was the beginning of our tremendous distrust and inability to learn to trust you folks on the conservative side. It had been proved to us that 'your' side was willing to violate the Constitution of the US in order to get your way.
I know the conservatives, especially the religious fundamentalists on this site, feel we are only attacking them and that they are the victims, innocent of any wrong doing. Can you set aside for the moment your firm belief that you are right with God and we are wrong, wrong, condemned to hell wrong and see that after what has happened in the last decade or so, there is a reason why we are so very angry and distrustful? Your case for the McCain and Palin ticket would be easier to make if we had not been treated by your side the way we have been.
I don't know of any solution to this mess. How can I ever trust you conservatives after what you have done? Ironically, I am, politically, what was once called an Eisenhower republican: Conservative as hell on fiscal matters but a social liberal.
 
Keven, your take is pretty much spot on for me. I've always been an Independent, and when Bush was appointed I was unhappy. But from that point on his party ruled like they had a 90% mandate, which they didn't. They ran roughshod over all aspects of American life. there was no discussion, no openness, no give and take. In my minds eye I see a person rubbing their hands in glee, like a villain in and old movie when I think of Bush and the R's. The tune that ran in the background with that mental image was an old Depesch Mode tune "Everything Counts" ---

"The grabbing hands grab all they can
Everything counts in large amounts"

Every move was blatant, calculated and designed to get the most power, to score the most points with the base, and to generate the most income for their backers and themselves. There was no thought given to what was best for the country, it was all what was best for corporations and the rich.

But of course, those on the "right" don't see it that way. That is why I say I'm rabidly anti-republican and at this point always will be.
 
Matt, we need more people thinking like you do. I'm 100% in agreement. But what we really need is to end the partisanship that's wrecking our system. It's so bad here in California that we still don't have a state budget that was supposed to have been passed and approved by June 30th. We've never gone this long without a budget. This will likely have a negative impact on the state's credit rating as has happened with past stalemates. All because republicans refuse to raise any taxes, even a temporary sales tax that Arnold has proposed, and they are voting down any budget proposal that includes them. All in the name of pandering to their elitist core supporters. I don't like higher taxes any more than anyone else, but services are already stretched way thin here. It appears there is no compromise in sight.

The result? The state Correctional Officers union is now launching a recall effort against Arnold. So as we are already the capital of flakes, kooks and hippie chicks on wine, we can now add irony to that list.
 
Typical Republican Tacticts

This is something democrats don't do, but republicans do.
Even for republicans, this is stooping pretty low.
So good to know what 'real' Americans are like, huh?
Sheesh.
From the New York Times:
September 11, 2008
Editorial
Mississippi’s Ballot Trick

Mississippi’s governor, Haley Barbour, and its secretary of state have come up with a particularly cynical dirty trick for the November election. Let’s call it: “Where’s the Senate race?”

Defying state law, they have decided to hide a hard-fought race for the United States Senate at the bottom of the ballot, where they clearly are hoping some voters will overlook it. Their proposed design is not only illegal. It shows a deep contempt for Mississippi’s voters.

Republicans have long had a lock on the state’s two Senate seats. But this year, former Gov. Ronnie Musgrove, a Democrat, has been running close to Senator Roger Wicker, a Republican, in the polls. Mr. Wicker was appointed to the seat by Governor Barbour in late December after Trent Lott stepped down.

Mississippi election law clearly states that federal elections must go at the top of ballots. And the secretary of state, Delbert Hosemann, plans to list the state’s other Senate race — incumbent Thad Cochran is running far ahead of his Democratic challenger, Erik Fleming — where it belongs, right below the presidential contest.

But Mr. Hosemann argues that because the Wicker-Musgrove race is a special election to fill the remainder of Mr. Lott’s term, he is free to place it at the bottom, below state and county races.

Mr. Hosemann is insisting on that placement even after the state attorney general’s office notified him that his ballot design violates state law.

Mr. Hosemann’s ballot also violates the Voting Rights Act, which requires that changes in election procedures that could make it harder for people to vote — and this certainly fits that bill — be cleared in advance with the Justice Department.

This is not a dispute over aesthetics. Mr. Hosemann’s decision could easily change the outcome of the Wicker-Musgrove election.

Some voters, including the elderly, the least educated and first-time voters, have more trouble than others navigating complicated ballots. Many of these voters are more likely to vote for Democrats than Republicans. And, yes, Governor Barbour and Mr. Hosemann are both Republicans.

A local election official is suing to put the Wicker-Musgrove race back where it belongs. The state court judge who is hearing the case on Thursday should order that the Senate race be placed at the top of the ballot. Even if she does the right thing, we fear, that will not end the matter.

The case is likely to wind up, on appeal, in Mississippi’s Supreme Court. Voting rights advocates are worried that the Republican-leaning court will decide the case on partisan lines, rather than on the law.

If the state courts do not provide relief, supporters of fair elections should take the case to federal court. They will need to move quickly since time to prepare ballots is fast running out. Mississippi’s voters have a right to a ballot that conforms with the law — and that is not designed to win a Senate seat by trickery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/opinion/11thu1.html?pagewanted=print
 
Marge Said It Best:

"Every move was blatant, calculated and designed to get the most power, to score the most points with the base, and to generate the most income for their backers and themselves. There was no thought given to what was best for the country, it was all what was best for corporations and the rich."

And for what? For a little bit of money. There's more to life than a little money, you know. Don'tcha know that? And here ya are, and it's a beautiful day. Well. I just don't understand it.

9-12-2008-00-27-14--danemodsandy.jpg
 
You gotta see this...

Came across this. It's tried and true and blatant. Don't all rush out for popcorn at the same time.

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