Isn't this interesting.....

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Agreed Travis

you are right.

This is not the forum to air personal opinions on such matters and that was my point. And I do not see why Mark and Shane seem determined to make everybody agree with their personal views. That was my only point.
 
Old, Bitter Houseman

I have hit the ignore button from here on out. I cannot continue to argue with the mentally challenged.

I hope one day soon Robert will realize the damage you are beginning to inflict on his website. My guess is he will.

Nite Nite boys!
 
"I have no interest in surrounding myself with a bitter, old, queen who spends the majority of his days looking for a fight on this website"

Shane, I don't mean to get on anyone's bad side, but Greg didn't start this thread or the other politically charged thread before it. Take a look at the first post above and on the Obama one.

I'm not slamming Mark. I'm just pointing something out to you.

I would really like this stuff to stop. Good people becoming adversaries is not what the AW site was meant to foster. Quite the opposite. You, Mark and Greg all make positive contributions to this site. It would be great if that continued without hiccups like this.

Ralph
 
What Ralph said. But I understand the frustration. Most forums I participate in have a right or far right political bent, and it's brutal being outnumbered.

But after all the vitriol, feelings are hurt but no one's viewpoint is changed. I mean have you ever heard anyone say they changed their choice of candidate, or position on an issue etc because of an online discussion? I haven't. So what's the real point here?

Mark's initial post was just a link to a news story, and IMO it didn't warrant a personal attack -- even though I completely agree with Greg's assessment of our country. We're watching our economy, housing market, industrial base etc etc collapse before our eyes, while we scream at each other about lapel pins and same-sex marriage.
 
IMO we can thank Karl Rove------

for teaching America how to divide and attack each other. Never in my life had I ever seen the likes. Oh, we Americans always had our issues, but we always seemed to pull together for a common cause rather than dividing ourselves into this or the other "camps".
Then we feel we must PROVE ourselves "right" or "wrong".
As a political strategy this certainly worked. As a social strategy it has been a disaster for "We the People".

Remember folks-----we are all human and we all make mistakes.
If you live your lives refusing to allow others to be human and make mistakes-----then don't expect to be forgiven for your own shortcomings when they arise----and they will.

Personally, I kind of like Clinique's "Honey Black" lip-gloss.
 
> IMO we can thank Karl Rove------
for teaching America how to divide and attack each other

I think you're giving Mr. Rove way more importance than he deserves. All Rove did was capitalize on mass hysteria and teach Mr. Bush and his administration how to make political careers out of fear and terror. And 12 year-old could have done the same, if that 12 year-old was the spawn of Satan and had no conscience or moral values.

I have my own (probably off-the-wall to most here) theory about this. I believe America signed it's own death sentence when the USSR collapsed. Before that point, we as a nation had a credible external threat to our existence. And ever since that point we've replaced these external threats with internal ones -- our own population -- everything from the "war on drugs" to "the culture war" to illegal immigrants, etc etc etc.

In other words, the same military-industrial machine responsible for fabricating a never-ending stream of boogeymen (created exclusively to justify obscenely large, wartime Pentagon budgets during peacetime) since the end of WWII, and which Eisenhower specifically warned us about, finally ran out of credibility. Korea. Vietnam. Cuba. And towards the end these boogeymen got downright ridiculous: Panamanian drug lords, Nicaraguan rebels, Kosovo etc. The current comedy team du jour is al Qaeda, for whom Bush has been the perfect straight man.

And since it's 9/11 today, let's mark the occasion with the biggest celebration of freedom in U.S. history. Let's send a note of sincere thanks to al Jazeera, thanking al Qaeda for restoring New York's skyline to its pre-WTC proportion and beauty. And then let's send a one-line note to the new president of Pakistan, telling her she has exactly 72 hours to produce Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar and Al-Zawahiri ("The Doctor"), or else we will march 250,000 of our troops into their country and find these coward-ass thugs ourselves.

Sound like fun?
 
Same old shit every four years!

Everyone wants to kill each other on the site.

There are plenty of places on the WWW to fight with someone, not here guy's.

eat a piece of cake and stop it, PLEASE!

9-11-2008-08-06-19--bethann.jpg
 
Bethann, that looks wonderful....I'll take two please. And yeah, you're right, every 4 years, same old shit here. Now pass me a plate and a fork while I tune out the TV News!!
 
I'll take a piece

Bethann, and thank you.

There are many contributing factors to our current political polarization. I think the horror of 9/11 did quite a bit of damage to this country's equilibrium.
The impeachment of Bill Clinton really kicked the culture wars into high gear. The double standard of republicans in congress became apparent in those days. It has only worsened since then. After the last three Supreme Court decisions against this administration on basic Constitutional law, can anyone really suppose the republicans would not have pushed for impeachment if the sitting president had not been a republican?
I do believe the way the 2000 elections were conducted, especially in Florida, together with the Supreme Court decision on who was to be president had two consequences.
First, it gave the incoming administration a sense they could play fast and loose with the Constitution. We have a saying in Germany which goes: How things begin, so they continue.
Second, today everyone acknowledges that the 2000 election was rigged and the republican win was unconstitutional. It has taken awhile, but conservatives felt better accepting the facts after Bush won in 2004.
Legally.
For those of us who didn't vote for him this was a shock. Until 2000, it had always been an American tradition that the loser accept his or her loss. For the United States to actually hold elections, then ratify them in the same manner as South American dictatorships do or the communists in Europe was a blow which left us reeling.
That was the beginning of our tremendous distrust and inability to learn to trust you folks on the conservative side. It had been proved to us that 'your' side was willing to violate the Constitution of the US in order to get your way.
I know the conservatives, especially the religious fundamentalists on this site, feel we are only attacking them and that they are the victims, innocent of any wrong doing. Can you set aside for the moment your firm belief that you are right with God and we are wrong, wrong, condemned to hell wrong and see that after what has happened in the last decade or so, there is a reason why we are so very angry and distrustful? Your case for the McCain and Palin ticket would be easier to make if we had not been treated by your side the way we have been.
I don't know of any solution to this mess. How can I ever trust you conservatives after what you have done? Ironically, I am, politically, what was once called an Eisenhower republican: Conservative as hell on fiscal matters but a social liberal.
 
Keven, your take is pretty much spot on for me. I've always been an Independent, and when Bush was appointed I was unhappy. But from that point on his party ruled like they had a 90% mandate, which they didn't. They ran roughshod over all aspects of American life. there was no discussion, no openness, no give and take. In my minds eye I see a person rubbing their hands in glee, like a villain in and old movie when I think of Bush and the R's. The tune that ran in the background with that mental image was an old Depesch Mode tune "Everything Counts" ---

"The grabbing hands grab all they can
Everything counts in large amounts"

Every move was blatant, calculated and designed to get the most power, to score the most points with the base, and to generate the most income for their backers and themselves. There was no thought given to what was best for the country, it was all what was best for corporations and the rich.

But of course, those on the "right" don't see it that way. That is why I say I'm rabidly anti-republican and at this point always will be.
 
Matt, we need more people thinking like you do. I'm 100% in agreement. But what we really need is to end the partisanship that's wrecking our system. It's so bad here in California that we still don't have a state budget that was supposed to have been passed and approved by June 30th. We've never gone this long without a budget. This will likely have a negative impact on the state's credit rating as has happened with past stalemates. All because republicans refuse to raise any taxes, even a temporary sales tax that Arnold has proposed, and they are voting down any budget proposal that includes them. All in the name of pandering to their elitist core supporters. I don't like higher taxes any more than anyone else, but services are already stretched way thin here. It appears there is no compromise in sight.

The result? The state Correctional Officers union is now launching a recall effort against Arnold. So as we are already the capital of flakes, kooks and hippie chicks on wine, we can now add irony to that list.
 
Typical Republican Tacticts

This is something democrats don't do, but republicans do.
Even for republicans, this is stooping pretty low.
So good to know what 'real' Americans are like, huh?
Sheesh.
From the New York Times:
September 11, 2008
Editorial
Mississippi’s Ballot Trick

Mississippi’s governor, Haley Barbour, and its secretary of state have come up with a particularly cynical dirty trick for the November election. Let’s call it: “Where’s the Senate race?”

Defying state law, they have decided to hide a hard-fought race for the United States Senate at the bottom of the ballot, where they clearly are hoping some voters will overlook it. Their proposed design is not only illegal. It shows a deep contempt for Mississippi’s voters.

Republicans have long had a lock on the state’s two Senate seats. But this year, former Gov. Ronnie Musgrove, a Democrat, has been running close to Senator Roger Wicker, a Republican, in the polls. Mr. Wicker was appointed to the seat by Governor Barbour in late December after Trent Lott stepped down.

Mississippi election law clearly states that federal elections must go at the top of ballots. And the secretary of state, Delbert Hosemann, plans to list the state’s other Senate race — incumbent Thad Cochran is running far ahead of his Democratic challenger, Erik Fleming — where it belongs, right below the presidential contest.

But Mr. Hosemann argues that because the Wicker-Musgrove race is a special election to fill the remainder of Mr. Lott’s term, he is free to place it at the bottom, below state and county races.

Mr. Hosemann is insisting on that placement even after the state attorney general’s office notified him that his ballot design violates state law.

Mr. Hosemann’s ballot also violates the Voting Rights Act, which requires that changes in election procedures that could make it harder for people to vote — and this certainly fits that bill — be cleared in advance with the Justice Department.

This is not a dispute over aesthetics. Mr. Hosemann’s decision could easily change the outcome of the Wicker-Musgrove election.

Some voters, including the elderly, the least educated and first-time voters, have more trouble than others navigating complicated ballots. Many of these voters are more likely to vote for Democrats than Republicans. And, yes, Governor Barbour and Mr. Hosemann are both Republicans.

A local election official is suing to put the Wicker-Musgrove race back where it belongs. The state court judge who is hearing the case on Thursday should order that the Senate race be placed at the top of the ballot. Even if she does the right thing, we fear, that will not end the matter.

The case is likely to wind up, on appeal, in Mississippi’s Supreme Court. Voting rights advocates are worried that the Republican-leaning court will decide the case on partisan lines, rather than on the law.

If the state courts do not provide relief, supporters of fair elections should take the case to federal court. They will need to move quickly since time to prepare ballots is fast running out. Mississippi’s voters have a right to a ballot that conforms with the law — and that is not designed to win a Senate seat by trickery.

 
Marge Said It Best:

"Every move was blatant, calculated and designed to get the most power, to score the most points with the base, and to generate the most income for their backers and themselves. There was no thought given to what was best for the country, it was all what was best for corporations and the rich."

And for what? For a little bit of money. There's more to life than a little money, you know. Don'tcha know that? And here ya are, and it's a beautiful day. Well. I just don't understand it.

9-12-2008-00-27-14--danemodsandy.jpg
 
You gotta see this...

Came across this. It's tried and true and blatant. Don't all rush out for popcorn at the same time.

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