Issues with China made items - A rant of sorts!
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randycmaynard
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Not so with every American made product.......
A great many things made here are far superior to the overseas stuff if talking of things made in China or other Asian countries. A good number of European countries turn out quaility equal to the best we have here and are ligit competition.
Besides, why do we always have to try to be fair to everyone? It sure does not come back the other way to us! We need to take this back - it's more fair to put out quailty products than to put out junk that no one wants and that won't last longer than 30 seconds after opening the package! To use a phrase from the past (modified a little) anything they can do we can do better, far better and we should!
A great many things made here are far superior to the overseas stuff if talking of things made in China or other Asian countries. A good number of European countries turn out quaility equal to the best we have here and are ligit competition.
Besides, why do we always have to try to be fair to everyone? It sure does not come back the other way to us! We need to take this back - it's more fair to put out quailty products than to put out junk that no one wants and that won't last longer than 30 seconds after opening the package! To use a phrase from the past (modified a little) anything they can do we can do better, far better and we should!
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
Pay what it costs to support unionized American workers
Some will argue that it's these "workers" and their unions that drove the prices up so that the consumers had to, as it was put, "refuse to pay the higher cost of made in USA goods, pressure stores to stock lower priced inventory, chase every sale and coupon to the cheapest price."
I agree with Hoover 1100: "I'm interested in is that I get the best value for money I can afford." I buy and support American whenever I can, but not always (as I sit here in my Hanes from the Dominican Republic, Wranglers from Mexico, Russel Athletic T made in El Salvador, and New Balance sneakers made in.... wait for it.... China. Maybe my sox were made here?).
Randy, we have a LOT of the earlier Shiny Brite ornaments. Went on a little spree one February during the sales in Adamstown, PA!
Chuck
Some will argue that it's these "workers" and their unions that drove the prices up so that the consumers had to, as it was put, "refuse to pay the higher cost of made in USA goods, pressure stores to stock lower priced inventory, chase every sale and coupon to the cheapest price."
I agree with Hoover 1100: "I'm interested in is that I get the best value for money I can afford." I buy and support American whenever I can, but not always (as I sit here in my Hanes from the Dominican Republic, Wranglers from Mexico, Russel Athletic T made in El Salvador, and New Balance sneakers made in.... wait for it.... China. Maybe my sox were made here?).
Randy, we have a LOT of the earlier Shiny Brite ornaments. Went on a little spree one February during the sales in Adamstown, PA!
Chuck
rll70sman
Well-known member
Let's keep in mind that not all U.S. companies are unionized these days. There are a great deal of smaller, privately-held companies that manufacture in this country and do not need a union to keep their workers happy and provide them with decent wages and benefits. But, that's a different story in and of itself.
I see different problems--ones that can't be pinned solely on unions. A huge part of the problem lies in the core values of corporate stakeholders, whether it'd be those of stockholders, management, or anyone else with a vested interest in a company's performance. More often than not, we see profit and personal gain (or should I say "good old material greed") at the forefront of their efforts. That pressure undoubtedly trickles down through the organization to those on the factory floor. The next thing we know, one process or assembly line disappears to cut costs, then another, and another, until the entire factory is shut down. Take that a step further with all the lobbyists that put the screws to Congress and state legislatures to impose trade agreements (GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA, SAFTA, etc.), environmental laws and regulations, tax laws, and employment laws that do not allow a level playing field for our companies. Where we as ordinary, working class citizens don't speak up about all this, we can be certain these rich lobbyists will.
I see different problems--ones that can't be pinned solely on unions. A huge part of the problem lies in the core values of corporate stakeholders, whether it'd be those of stockholders, management, or anyone else with a vested interest in a company's performance. More often than not, we see profit and personal gain (or should I say "good old material greed") at the forefront of their efforts. That pressure undoubtedly trickles down through the organization to those on the factory floor. The next thing we know, one process or assembly line disappears to cut costs, then another, and another, until the entire factory is shut down. Take that a step further with all the lobbyists that put the screws to Congress and state legislatures to impose trade agreements (GATT, NAFTA, CAFTA, SAFTA, etc.), environmental laws and regulations, tax laws, and employment laws that do not allow a level playing field for our companies. Where we as ordinary, working class citizens don't speak up about all this, we can be certain these rich lobbyists will.
this is huge with me.
This is a huge issue with me. I try to buy US manufactured products whenever possible. If I can't buy US, I buy first world. If I can't buy first world, I will reluctantly consider buying China. But I try to avoid that whenever possible.
I just don't believe that Chinese goods are safe. Also, they are the worst human rights abuser in the world; have the worst environmental record in the world; and, frankly, they should stop buying US debt which would force our darned government to spend less.
EVERY TIME I find a product that I am replacing that used to be US made and is now China made I write them a letter saying I will never buy their products again because they have outsourced, and I send it to the CEO.
(On the Pressure Cooker front, I'm returning my Fissler, which I believe to be defective, and buying a Kuhn Rikon, because Presto has sold out to China).
Hunter
This is a huge issue with me. I try to buy US manufactured products whenever possible. If I can't buy US, I buy first world. If I can't buy first world, I will reluctantly consider buying China. But I try to avoid that whenever possible.
I just don't believe that Chinese goods are safe. Also, they are the worst human rights abuser in the world; have the worst environmental record in the world; and, frankly, they should stop buying US debt which would force our darned government to spend less.
EVERY TIME I find a product that I am replacing that used to be US made and is now China made I write them a letter saying I will never buy their products again because they have outsourced, and I send it to the CEO.
(On the Pressure Cooker front, I'm returning my Fissler, which I believe to be defective, and buying a Kuhn Rikon, because Presto has sold out to China).
Hunter
They Have Great Stuff
I am partnered with a Chinese genetleman who has had factories in China which later moved to Vietnam when the cost of government services became too great to be competetive. Chinese workers are protected by versions of medical, injury, unemployment, environmental and retirement pensions. Many products the Chinese buy and use are of very good quality. Again I say it is the consumer who is totally to blame. The Chinese items cost more in China because the Chinese merchant requires a higher spec. It is the importer of Chinese products who has lower specs and as a result we get cheaper goods. Remember the appliance stores of the 70's with someone's name on it? Rememeber the drugstore with someone's name on it? Try a grocery store, lumber yard and plumber that all had names of local residents proudly displayed. Stores like, Earnst, Pay-n-Pak, Home Depor, Lowes, Sears, Best Buy, Home Depot, Meijers, Fred Meyer, Wal-Mart, Costco, Target and K-Mart. You, memebers of your family, your friends, your co-workers are the ones that caused this. Chasing coupons and sales, demanding products and food delievered cheaply year round going to big box stores drove retailers out of the American market. Sorry bunch of cheap assed, throw away consumers. It only gets worse as our government adds more and more costly laws, requirements and fees. How many of us owned a business at one time and learned going under the table was about the only way to make a living. It is us, me, you and everyone else in America that delivered this sad time in our life.
I am partnered with a Chinese genetleman who has had factories in China which later moved to Vietnam when the cost of government services became too great to be competetive. Chinese workers are protected by versions of medical, injury, unemployment, environmental and retirement pensions. Many products the Chinese buy and use are of very good quality. Again I say it is the consumer who is totally to blame. The Chinese items cost more in China because the Chinese merchant requires a higher spec. It is the importer of Chinese products who has lower specs and as a result we get cheaper goods. Remember the appliance stores of the 70's with someone's name on it? Rememeber the drugstore with someone's name on it? Try a grocery store, lumber yard and plumber that all had names of local residents proudly displayed. Stores like, Earnst, Pay-n-Pak, Home Depor, Lowes, Sears, Best Buy, Home Depot, Meijers, Fred Meyer, Wal-Mart, Costco, Target and K-Mart. You, memebers of your family, your friends, your co-workers are the ones that caused this. Chasing coupons and sales, demanding products and food delievered cheaply year round going to big box stores drove retailers out of the American market. Sorry bunch of cheap assed, throw away consumers. It only gets worse as our government adds more and more costly laws, requirements and fees. How many of us owned a business at one time and learned going under the table was about the only way to make a living. It is us, me, you and everyone else in America that delivered this sad time in our life.
randycmaynard
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One thing I know for sure is
that I spend very little, if any, time in Wal-Mart, don't fool with K-Mart, Target gets some but not much. I prefer to look for the local places and purposely seek out quality - especially the American made products.
that I spend very little, if any, time in Wal-Mart, don't fool with K-Mart, Target gets some but not much. I prefer to look for the local places and purposely seek out quality - especially the American made products.
This is a complex issue . . .
I buy Chinese made products, and find some of them to be well made, while some aren't. My Olympus SLR camera was made in China, as were some of the lenses. My favorite and best lens is Japanese, but it cost more than the camera body. The point is that the Chinese can make as good quality as anyone else if they have the budget, but really cheap stuff is really cheap stuff no matter where it's made. China does need to allow the value of the yuan to float. They've undervalued it too much for too long, and this isn't good for anyone.
A few observations:
-Simple and very inexpensive items should be made in third world countries. It costs too much to make them elsewhere, and the foreign exchange helps raise the living standards of those who need it most.
-Rampant protectionism isn't the way to revitalize American manufacturing. Countries that go this route end up with too many isolated industries that can't compete on a worldwide basis. The former Eastern bloc is a great example of this: when the iron curtain fell most all their home-grown industries quickly failed and the factories were bought by multinationals. Why? Because their products were mostly crappy, poorly designed and poorly made. The manufacturers lasted for decades in that environment because there was no outside competition.
Instead, take a look at Germany and Japan; their labor is expensive, often more so than American labor, but their products are famed worldwide for being well designed and made, and as such sell for a premium which earns lots of foreign exchange for them.
-To a large degree incompetant management is why our manufacturing sector isn't where Germany and Japan are. Go back to 1970 and look at where BMW was at the time. A very small company with very little name recognition in the US, they had a new line of big six-cylinder cars, pretty luxurious by European standards but hardly so by American standards. They were very nicely built however and the company always put a premium on driving dynamics with good suspension, steering, and brakes. Over here Ford had just introduced a redesigned Lincoln which abandoned both the '60s unit body construction and the Lincoln engines, so a Lincoln could be made with Ford/Mercury components. Over at GM Cadillac was busy cheapening their cars too for '71. Neither could be bothered to install four wheel disc brakes or independant suspension like the BMW, or precise steering. For the next 25 years all three companies continued on their same paths, with Ford and GM integrating more parts for their upper level makes with their popularly priced brands. BMW kept making sophisticated cars that drove well and gradually introduced larger V-8 and V-12 engines, better a/c, and other things Americans insist on.
Today when I drive around through wealthy neighborhoods I hardly ever see a Cadillac or Lincoln sedan, but E and S-class Mercedes are everywhere, along with 5 and 7-series BMWs, lots of big Lexuses, and the odd Bentley. Simply put, Cadillac and Lincoln lack the credibility to sell much in the over $50,000 market, while wealthy people are happy to part with $80,000-$90,000 for the high-end German and Japanese stuff because they've never forgotten that the customer is likely to see and feel the difference between a mid-range product with extra trim and a true high-end product. The same thing has happened with appliances - why don't we have anything to compete with Miele? It's because American management frequently wants to deal only with really high volume products, but that puts them into competition with foriegn made stuff from countries with cheaper labor, and then of course it's hard to make American products competitive.
Health care is the 700 lb. gorilla in this mess. High health care costs have been a big part of the difficulty of making competitive mid-range products here, and until this is resolved in some manner American companies will be working with an inbuilt disadvantage.
I buy Chinese made products, and find some of them to be well made, while some aren't. My Olympus SLR camera was made in China, as were some of the lenses. My favorite and best lens is Japanese, but it cost more than the camera body. The point is that the Chinese can make as good quality as anyone else if they have the budget, but really cheap stuff is really cheap stuff no matter where it's made. China does need to allow the value of the yuan to float. They've undervalued it too much for too long, and this isn't good for anyone.
A few observations:
-Simple and very inexpensive items should be made in third world countries. It costs too much to make them elsewhere, and the foreign exchange helps raise the living standards of those who need it most.
-Rampant protectionism isn't the way to revitalize American manufacturing. Countries that go this route end up with too many isolated industries that can't compete on a worldwide basis. The former Eastern bloc is a great example of this: when the iron curtain fell most all their home-grown industries quickly failed and the factories were bought by multinationals. Why? Because their products were mostly crappy, poorly designed and poorly made. The manufacturers lasted for decades in that environment because there was no outside competition.
Instead, take a look at Germany and Japan; their labor is expensive, often more so than American labor, but their products are famed worldwide for being well designed and made, and as such sell for a premium which earns lots of foreign exchange for them.
-To a large degree incompetant management is why our manufacturing sector isn't where Germany and Japan are. Go back to 1970 and look at where BMW was at the time. A very small company with very little name recognition in the US, they had a new line of big six-cylinder cars, pretty luxurious by European standards but hardly so by American standards. They were very nicely built however and the company always put a premium on driving dynamics with good suspension, steering, and brakes. Over here Ford had just introduced a redesigned Lincoln which abandoned both the '60s unit body construction and the Lincoln engines, so a Lincoln could be made with Ford/Mercury components. Over at GM Cadillac was busy cheapening their cars too for '71. Neither could be bothered to install four wheel disc brakes or independant suspension like the BMW, or precise steering. For the next 25 years all three companies continued on their same paths, with Ford and GM integrating more parts for their upper level makes with their popularly priced brands. BMW kept making sophisticated cars that drove well and gradually introduced larger V-8 and V-12 engines, better a/c, and other things Americans insist on.
Today when I drive around through wealthy neighborhoods I hardly ever see a Cadillac or Lincoln sedan, but E and S-class Mercedes are everywhere, along with 5 and 7-series BMWs, lots of big Lexuses, and the odd Bentley. Simply put, Cadillac and Lincoln lack the credibility to sell much in the over $50,000 market, while wealthy people are happy to part with $80,000-$90,000 for the high-end German and Japanese stuff because they've never forgotten that the customer is likely to see and feel the difference between a mid-range product with extra trim and a true high-end product. The same thing has happened with appliances - why don't we have anything to compete with Miele? It's because American management frequently wants to deal only with really high volume products, but that puts them into competition with foriegn made stuff from countries with cheaper labor, and then of course it's hard to make American products competitive.
Health care is the 700 lb. gorilla in this mess. High health care costs have been a big part of the difficulty of making competitive mid-range products here, and until this is resolved in some manner American companies will be working with an inbuilt disadvantage.
certainly.
Certainly it is incompetent management. Look at AT&T -- once one of the best companies on earth, run into the ground merely 12 years after divestiture so they had to split into three again, then finally reduced to being inconsequential, and bought by one of their "Baby Bells."
Healthcare is a 700 pound gorilla - but forcing everyone to buy health insurance isn't the answer. Tort reform, not consuming so much healthcare (I'm fighting a sinus infection and am treating it with saline irrigation NOT by going to the doctor because I consider that a LAST resort not a first. My body can heal itself in most instances). There will be NO resolution as long as Americans want to sue for the simplest things, and want to use a huge amount of medical care that isn't all that necessary. Additionally, _from what I can see from not living there_ a lot of other countries have cheaper healthcare because they don't have incredible interventions -- they concentrate on prevention (eating right, exercise) which reduces really expensive stuff like low birth rate babies (good prenatal care and good lifestyle stuff, and, frankly, perhaps having kids at an earlier age), and prevention of heart disease and cancer (exercise, good diet, minimize smoking).
There is no magic bullet.
Certainly it is incompetent management. Look at AT&T -- once one of the best companies on earth, run into the ground merely 12 years after divestiture so they had to split into three again, then finally reduced to being inconsequential, and bought by one of their "Baby Bells."
Healthcare is a 700 pound gorilla - but forcing everyone to buy health insurance isn't the answer. Tort reform, not consuming so much healthcare (I'm fighting a sinus infection and am treating it with saline irrigation NOT by going to the doctor because I consider that a LAST resort not a first. My body can heal itself in most instances). There will be NO resolution as long as Americans want to sue for the simplest things, and want to use a huge amount of medical care that isn't all that necessary. Additionally, _from what I can see from not living there_ a lot of other countries have cheaper healthcare because they don't have incredible interventions -- they concentrate on prevention (eating right, exercise) which reduces really expensive stuff like low birth rate babies (good prenatal care and good lifestyle stuff, and, frankly, perhaps having kids at an earlier age), and prevention of heart disease and cancer (exercise, good diet, minimize smoking).
There is no magic bullet.
rll70sman
Well-known member
Good point, Hunter. I appreciate your common sense approach and I'm glad you brought up the issues of tort and healthcare reform. Those will destroy us, too, if not dealt with sensibly.
well...
Everyone in the current debate is saying 'we need to make sure everyone has health insurance.'
How on EARTH is compelling everyone to buy health insurance going to solve this problem? Lots of folks don't buy it because it is too expensive, and this won't change - trust me, I lived in Mass and I knew a lot of folks who paid Boston's tax penalties because THEY COULD AFFORD $1000 IN TAX PENALTIES BUT NOT $10,000 PER YEAR IN HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS.
That's what will happen on a national level.
We must find ways to deliver quality care at a more reasonable price. Unfortunately I'm not expecting it anytime soon.
Everyone in the current debate is saying 'we need to make sure everyone has health insurance.'
How on EARTH is compelling everyone to buy health insurance going to solve this problem? Lots of folks don't buy it because it is too expensive, and this won't change - trust me, I lived in Mass and I knew a lot of folks who paid Boston's tax penalties because THEY COULD AFFORD $1000 IN TAX PENALTIES BUT NOT $10,000 PER YEAR IN HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS.
That's what will happen on a national level.
We must find ways to deliver quality care at a more reasonable price. Unfortunately I'm not expecting it anytime soon.
Shift the Wealth
Make it illegal for any representative to hold more than two consecutive terms of office. Make paid lobbying illegal. Make healthcare, healthcare insurance and drugs, not for profit. Go paperless reporting in all healthcare and insurance claims, eliminating lost reports and fraudulent claims. Let all those CEOs, owners and investors with their cazillion dollars be divested to manufacturing, building and taking back the creative and scientific edge in design we gave up to India and China. Lazy, subsidized and complacent workers need to get the boot.
Make it illegal for any representative to hold more than two consecutive terms of office. Make paid lobbying illegal. Make healthcare, healthcare insurance and drugs, not for profit. Go paperless reporting in all healthcare and insurance claims, eliminating lost reports and fraudulent claims. Let all those CEOs, owners and investors with their cazillion dollars be divested to manufacturing, building and taking back the creative and scientific edge in design we gave up to India and China. Lazy, subsidized and complacent workers need to get the boot.
I certainly agree...
with representatives not having more than 2 (or even 1) term in office. I wouldn't say 'non profit' on healthcare and drugs as I've seen HUGE abuses in the so-called 'non profit' sector.
As for paperless, who knows? I myself don't want any of my medical records electronic - too easy to steal.
And I'd argue that America's high taxes (our corporate taxes are HIGHER THAN SWEDEN'S) is one of the things that is driving innovation OUT of the USA. (Our tax policies punish repatriation of money by a corporation for example. So in a large emerging market NONE of the profit will flow back to the USA).
Hunter
with representatives not having more than 2 (or even 1) term in office. I wouldn't say 'non profit' on healthcare and drugs as I've seen HUGE abuses in the so-called 'non profit' sector.
As for paperless, who knows? I myself don't want any of my medical records electronic - too easy to steal.
And I'd argue that America's high taxes (our corporate taxes are HIGHER THAN SWEDEN'S) is one of the things that is driving innovation OUT of the USA. (Our tax policies punish repatriation of money by a corporation for example. So in a large emerging market NONE of the profit will flow back to the USA).
Hunter
China Vs US
I remember this several years ago in the gun industry-Norinco is Chinas largest industry-besides other things they also build guns.I remember in one of my gun magazines they compared a US built 1911 Colt 45 Auto pistol to one built by Norinco-the Norinco version was actually better built and more accurate than the US Colt built model(Colt no longer builds 1911 pistols)And to top it off the Norinco model was less expensive-othe the other side of the coin there was a comparison of M14 rifles-A Norinco built one Vs one built by Springfeild arms out of Massachuesuetts.Gues what here-the US built M14 was better-but more expensive-It turns out the Chinese made Norinco M14 rifle was UNSAFE to fire becuase its reciever was not properly hardened-they guns failed when fired from machine rests.Besides safety machine rests are used to check accuracy.
So--on Chinese products you take your chances-some of their things may be excellent-while others--UNSAFE at any speed.Its to the point its impossible to avoid Chinese made products.So far I have been lucky-since ther Chinese M14's are unsafe-they are no longer imported here.An M14 is a fine rifle.Better than the AR15.
I remember this several years ago in the gun industry-Norinco is Chinas largest industry-besides other things they also build guns.I remember in one of my gun magazines they compared a US built 1911 Colt 45 Auto pistol to one built by Norinco-the Norinco version was actually better built and more accurate than the US Colt built model(Colt no longer builds 1911 pistols)And to top it off the Norinco model was less expensive-othe the other side of the coin there was a comparison of M14 rifles-A Norinco built one Vs one built by Springfeild arms out of Massachuesuetts.Gues what here-the US built M14 was better-but more expensive-It turns out the Chinese made Norinco M14 rifle was UNSAFE to fire becuase its reciever was not properly hardened-they guns failed when fired from machine rests.Besides safety machine rests are used to check accuracy.
So--on Chinese products you take your chances-some of their things may be excellent-while others--UNSAFE at any speed.Its to the point its impossible to avoid Chinese made products.So far I have been lucky-since ther Chinese M14's are unsafe-they are no longer imported here.An M14 is a fine rifle.Better than the AR15.
electronic medical records
True, we're in the age of pishing and of e-thieves.
Anyway we have our medical records uploaded and upgraded on servers. In a emergency case (touch wood !!) the E.R. doctors can access the database to be aware of allergies, blood type etc. They have just to type your own fiscal code number on a keyboard (obviously they have to be inside the national healthcare network : PWD not enough, the hardware requires a further hardware login drive. No matter I prefer better rescue than e-safety
Innovation - no more innovation in the US .... are you sure ?
Bill "ctrl+alt+del" Gates, Steve i-Jobs, Page & Brin googlemen , Mark "Facebook" Zuckenberg .... guessed they were Americans
True, we're in the age of pishing and of e-thieves.
Anyway we have our medical records uploaded and upgraded on servers. In a emergency case (touch wood !!) the E.R. doctors can access the database to be aware of allergies, blood type etc. They have just to type your own fiscal code number on a keyboard (obviously they have to be inside the national healthcare network : PWD not enough, the hardware requires a further hardware login drive. No matter I prefer better rescue than e-safety
Innovation - no more innovation in the US .... are you sure ?
Bill "ctrl+alt+del" Gates, Steve i-Jobs, Page & Brin googlemen , Mark "Facebook" Zuckenberg .... guessed they were Americans
I'm not talking about US companies...
I'm talking about governmental policies that discourage innovation. All the companies you mention are building their R&D and other facilities OUTSIDE of the US at a much faster rate than any INSIDE the US.
the USA succeeds in spite of itself. I am concerned, at this point, that our stupidity (anti freedom, anti business, anti progress, anti industry) will do us in. Have any of you heard about the proposed national ID card in the guise of 'immigration reform'?
I'm talking about governmental policies that discourage innovation. All the companies you mention are building their R&D and other facilities OUTSIDE of the US at a much faster rate than any INSIDE the US.
the USA succeeds in spite of itself. I am concerned, at this point, that our stupidity (anti freedom, anti business, anti progress, anti industry) will do us in. Have any of you heard about the proposed national ID card in the guise of 'immigration reform'?
whitekingd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2008
- Messages
- 484
Hunter, there IS a Magic Bullet!
And I believe it's made in CHINA!!!!
And I believe it's made in CHINA!!!!
I have mixed feelings about the Made in China syndrome.
Back in the early 70's and 80's I was buying some Chinese made items. In these cases it was special stuff like actual China they made for the export market - some it fairly nice. Then in the 90's manufactured stuff started showing up. First, simple things like lamps and such, but I could tell that there was a good use of materials and the finish was quite nice despite the low price tag. Gradually more and more complex manufactured stuff started showing up, and now as is said it can be difficult to find many items smaller than a refrigerator that isn't made in China.
I have also noticed that it's usually a mistake to buy the cheapest item from the Made in China bin. Usually the least expensive items are really built to a low level of price/quality. The stuff is all so inexpensive that doesn't pay to save a few pennies on an item that is going to fall apart. Usually the higher priced item isn't that much more expensive but significantly better quality.
Back in the early 70's and 80's I was buying some Chinese made items. In these cases it was special stuff like actual China they made for the export market - some it fairly nice. Then in the 90's manufactured stuff started showing up. First, simple things like lamps and such, but I could tell that there was a good use of materials and the finish was quite nice despite the low price tag. Gradually more and more complex manufactured stuff started showing up, and now as is said it can be difficult to find many items smaller than a refrigerator that isn't made in China.
I have also noticed that it's usually a mistake to buy the cheapest item from the Made in China bin. Usually the least expensive items are really built to a low level of price/quality. The stuff is all so inexpensive that doesn't pay to save a few pennies on an item that is going to fall apart. Usually the higher priced item isn't that much more expensive but significantly better quality.
