It's not over till it's over - Prop. 8

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panthera

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Although the christianists have declared victory in stripping us of human rights, fcuking Nazis that they are, there are still some 4 million ballots uncounted (provisional, absentee). If NO on Prop.8 is right (see link), we may still have a shot at being declared human in California.
We may well lose this one, but have the foolish christianists really thought this one through? Once you start legislating discrimination, once you start stripping people of their constitutional rights, it is a slippery slope to Nazi Germany.
 
WOW! I'm agreeing with Peter! There was a significant number of Californians who not only voted yes on Obama but also voted yes on 8. Otherwise 8 would have been soundly defeated.
 
In Los Angeles it seems that a number of minority groups backed Prop 8. I remember a few years ago that (I believe it was Hillary Clinton and Mayor Virragosa) prominent politicians advocated giving drivers' licenses to all illegal aliens.

I wonder if they'd still go for that if it turned out that these same aliens might vote conservative?
 
A cogent analysis in simple terms

Church and state: The issue of Prop. 8

James Brosnahan

Sunday, November 9, 2008

Proposition 8 has passed, denying to some the right enjoyed by other citizens in California, the right to marry. Now, the central question for the courts to decide is: Are gays in California equal, or can members of certain churches declare them constitutionally inferior?

The approval of a constitutional ban on gay marriage raises troubling but age-old issues concerning the lines between religion and government. Before the founders of our country separated church and state, there were hundreds of years of turmoil caused by one religion dominating the government and using it against nonbelievers.

In the aftermath of Tuesday's vote, do gays and lesbians in California have a reason to believe that they have been abused, discriminated against and relegated to a separate-but-equal status?

Yes, and that's why this fight is far from over. There will be a challenge under the U.S. Constitution. In the 1960s, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a California constitutional amendment that limited fair housing on the grounds that prejudice could not be put into a state Constitution.

No one can forecast the outcome of this next fight, but there is bound to be some fallout that may harm those religions that so vehemently insisted that their beliefs be placed in the California Constitution. All religions require tolerance to flourish, but in Proposition 8 some religious groups aimed at and wounded gay people in California.

The drafters of the U.S. Constitution had a brilliant, experienced view concerning the importance of drawing the lines to protect religion on the one hand and civil government on the other. They put those lines in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Today, those lines are very relevant.

Government may not attack religion. Californians who have religious beliefs concerning the proper scope of marriage may exercise those rights as they see fit. Churches have always been able to proceed as they wish concerning marriage ceremonies. There was no mandate to suppress religious beliefs. This should be obvious to everyone in California because of our tolerance of all religions.

That the supporters of Proposition 8 were motivated by religious beliefs cannot be denied. Now the religious beliefs of some Californians are in our Constitution and, until overturned, govern us all whether we like it or not.

The other branch of the First Amendment is equally important. The state may not establish a religion. The state may not take principles of religious belief from a religion, any religion, and establish it as the law applicable to all. This line establishing the double branch of protection of religion on the one hand and no establishment on the other was arrived at after hundreds of years of turmoil.

Historically, marriage was used as a method of oppressing a despised group. These lessons of history are relevant to reflect on today. In Ireland, for 150 years, the penal laws provided that no Protestant could marry a Catholic.

Much more recent in the United States were the rules against marriage between a black person and a white person. These were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1960s and the California Supreme Court in the 1940s. Using the civil marriage ceremony as a method of expressing governmental disdain toward a particular group is as old as the Sierra Nevada. It has been an assault on tolerance.

Finally, marriage is a fundamental right in constitutional analysis. There are very few things in life more important than the ability to choose one's partner. Marriage is not just a word; it is a status, a state of mind, a way of being. Look in any direction and you will see examples of the people's respect for the institution of marriage.

A large group of Californians has now been denied that fundamental institution. These folks are our neighbors, our friends, our colleagues and our relatives. The constitutional promise of this state is, as the California Supreme Court held, that they are equally protected in the enjoyment of rights by all Californians. But the voters have spoken.

Now it will be up to the courts to explain whether equality is real - or just an illusion. I would not wish to be the one to justify this vote to a gay woman going to Afghanistan in the military, to a gay police officer who risks everything so we may be safe or any of the other thousands of gays and lesbians in California who contribute so much to our culture, our advancement and our well being.

I cannot square this vote with my view that Californians are decent, accepting and tolerant. But I know that the gays and lesbians of California, like the oppressed Catholics of Ireland who lived under penal laws, will fight this visible, constitutional, embarrassing injustice until it is no more. And when that day comes, we will live in a better state.

James Brosnahan, author of the "Trial Handbook for California Lawyers," is a senior partner at the Morrison & Foerster law firm in San Francisco.

 
Many people were deceived

The Yes on 8 folks produced a deceiving, untrue and misleading campaign.

First of all, they successfully changed Prop 8 from being a civil rights issue into a school curriculum issue by promoting the story of a couple from out of state who were upset their child was read a fairytale with gay characters in it during school. That could never happen in California because of the way the school curriculum is set up and the fact that parents must give permission for their kids to attend any "family/social/sex classes." Nonetheless, Yes on 8 campaign said "Prop 8 will prevent your children from being taught about gay marriage in school." Regardless of the fact that str8 marriage is not even taught in CA public schools, people were sucked into this lie that gay marriage would have to be taught to their children in first grade. The CA teachers union denounced this lie and contributed $1 million to No on 8 after this outrageguos misinformation was promoted. But the Christian right sucked up the vile lie like a Bounty paper towel.

Next, the Yes on 8 campaign made it appear Obama was in favor of Proposition 8 even thoguh he publicly stated his opposition to it. Robo-calls to black voters had Obama's voice stating he personally believed marriage as between a man and woman, and then went on with another voice to vote yes on 8. While Obama did state his personal belief as above, he also publicly denounced Prop 8 that attempted to change a state's constitution to remove rights that were already established.

Next came a mailer - "Democratic Voter Guide" - with a big picture of Obama and Vote for Obama all over it. All of the CA Proposition were listed and how to vote on them, supposedly as the Democratic Party suggests. Next to Prop 8, it listed a description -- establishes marriage as between man and woman and prevents gay marriage from being taught in schools -- and then a "vote yes." Huh??! I read further and in small print at the bottom it stated "not prepared by Democrat Party," and even smaller "Paid for by Yes on 8." This deceitful mailer was designed to fool Democrats that their party was telling them to vote Yes on 8.

Prop 8 was opposed by the Democratic Party, but the misleading Yes on 8 campaign made it appear that the Democrats favored Prop 8.

It was bad enought that so many churches are now just political organizations (They should NOT be tax exempt) but then you have this Yes on 8 campaign producing misleading confusing and deceitful materials.

It is also sad that all of this Yes on 8 money and propaganda came from out of state on an issue affecting the California constitution.
 
Mark your calendars, and if you can't be here in person, at least join us in spirit:

 
Awakening a Sleeping Giant

$22.8 million toward "Yes on 8" came directly from the Mormon church "members" in California and $7 million in Arizona. We all know money and fear can bring hatred and evil to life and give it a soul like nothing else. There aren't enough pages here to go into the mysteries and bizarre realities of the Mormon church, you can be startled and/or repulsed by searching online for the history and realities of the LDS church. Try to stay away from the church propaganda if you can, it's not easy. I did a paper on this "end-times" cult in college and they are very, very effective at distorting reality. They have been successful at hiding their financial information for almost 50 years now so there is no realistic way to even guess at the masses of cash they have in reserve. Watching some of the Prop 8 movement unfold through the hand of the Mormon church, it frightens me that not only are they clearly flexing their muscle to get what they want in California and Arizona, but it's also a lesson in attaining power. They have seen what the right amount of money can do to bring about the desired effect and will learn from it. Anyone care to guess what's next? Long ago, they threw in with what used to be the fringe of the Republican party's most extreme members - the fundamentalist christians. This alliance has grown and prospered and as Andrew Sullivan correctly points out, this opportunity in CA and AZ allowed them to further their goal of "normalizing" themselves with mainstream christianity and thereby also American culture. Be wary of further influence and power within the political realm by the Mormons, the Republikans are ripe for an acquisition bid. Their cries of "socialism", "Marxism" and other foolish insults are nothing compared with a carefully orchestrated and generously funded theocratic coup. Sound a little too "conspiracy-theory paranoia" for some? That's exactly where their power will come from.

 
Falwell and the Mormons

Ding!

The Mormons may well be trying to "spin away" from this issue, but they know full well from years of practice that controversy has a habit of fading quickly. Consider the fact that the Mormons have long been held in contempt and even declared heretical by those with whom they are now allied.
 

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