The heater box was badly rusted. Thankfully, I had a large roll of hi-temp flue tape lying around!
All sealed up now!
All sealed up now!
KDS-16 help
- Thread starter kenmore71
- Start date
Help Support :
And from the back
I have a 3 relays that I need to pick up at Grainger later today that will allow me to remove the water heating elements, drying element and the pump motor from the timer. I'm hoping that this SHOULD extend the life of the timer almost indefinitely to not have any heavy loads running through it. As part of this I will also couple the 2 700 watt water heating elements to BOTH operate whenever the timer calls for a single element. This will require running that power through a relay and making sure that main service to the dishwasher is a FULL 20 amps and wired with 12 gauge wiring.
In tests that I have run, this has resulted in 140-145 degree water for the final rinse of the Heavy cycle with the water heater set at 130 degrees! And It's done washing and rinsing in 28 minutes!!!
I also plan to install a toggle switch on the lower righthand side of the machine that will turn the drying heating element off for use in the summer when I don't need 30 minutes of steamy air from a 1000 watt heater pouring into my kitchen!.
I have a 3 relays that I need to pick up at Grainger later today that will allow me to remove the water heating elements, drying element and the pump motor from the timer. I'm hoping that this SHOULD extend the life of the timer almost indefinitely to not have any heavy loads running through it. As part of this I will also couple the 2 700 watt water heating elements to BOTH operate whenever the timer calls for a single element. This will require running that power through a relay and making sure that main service to the dishwasher is a FULL 20 amps and wired with 12 gauge wiring.
In tests that I have run, this has resulted in 140-145 degree water for the final rinse of the Heavy cycle with the water heater set at 130 degrees! And It's done washing and rinsing in 28 minutes!!!
I also plan to install a toggle switch on the lower righthand side of the machine that will turn the drying heating element off for use in the summer when I don't need 30 minutes of steamy air from a 1000 watt heater pouring into my kitchen!.
Great!
Very good idea to use relays instead of directly running the heating element/motor through the timer. This is probably the weak spot on many washers and dishwashers with timer activated heating elements, I'm afraid, just as it is with control board models of today, and yesterday. Your timer should last forever now
Also liking your neat fix on the heater duct - though I hope that you'll eventually fix that properly?
Very good idea to use relays instead of directly running the heating element/motor through the timer. This is probably the weak spot on many washers and dishwashers with timer activated heating elements, I'm afraid, just as it is with control board models of today, and yesterday. Your timer should last forever now
Also liking your neat fix on the heater duct - though I hope that you'll eventually fix that properly?
Up and running!
I have spent the last few days slaving away on the KDS-16 and yesterday brought it up into the kitchen and semi-installed it. Here's how it looks! I know some of you will be chuckling...
As you can see, it matches my sink and countertops beautifully!
And, yes, that is a glass of bourbon on the countertop to help celebrate a job completed (for today, at least).[this post was last edited: 3/22/2013-14:26]
I have spent the last few days slaving away on the KDS-16 and yesterday brought it up into the kitchen and semi-installed it. Here's how it looks! I know some of you will be chuckling...
As you can see, it matches my sink and countertops beautifully!
And, yes, that is a glass of bourbon on the countertop to help celebrate a job completed (for today, at least).[this post was last edited: 3/22/2013-14:26]
A little closer...
I have a couple of leads on a butcher block top. For right now this top was made from scraps found in the basement.
Also, relays have been installed on the water heater and the motor.
I have disconnected the heater in the drying duct for now and am only using the fan to "air-dry" the dishes. So far it seems to be working pretty well. Perhaps when I find a slightly newer aluminum (as opposed to galvanized metal) duct I'll play around with heater drying again. Quite honestly in my little galley kitchen that drying element may throw out more heat than I want!
I have a couple of leads on a butcher block top. For right now this top was made from scraps found in the basement.
Also, relays have been installed on the water heater and the motor.
I have disconnected the heater in the drying duct for now and am only using the fan to "air-dry" the dishes. So far it seems to be working pretty well. Perhaps when I find a slightly newer aluminum (as opposed to galvanized metal) duct I'll play around with heater drying again. Quite honestly in my little galley kitchen that drying element may throw out more heat than I want!
And the improvised "control system"
Again, I have a lead on a switch for this machine but it may be a month or two before that comes to fruition. In the meantime I wired up a little temporary job with off the shelf toggle switches that were already in my toolbox. The left switch is a DPDT switch and is wired to provide "Heavy Soil", "Off", & "Light Soil". The right switch is a SPDT switch that resets the rapid advance timer at the end of the cycle just like opening the door would.
If I had wanted to get even fancier, I could have added a 3rd SPST switch that would have turned the "Sani-heat" delay for the final rinse on or off.
Again, I have a lead on a switch for this machine but it may be a month or two before that comes to fruition. In the meantime I wired up a little temporary job with off the shelf toggle switches that were already in my toolbox. The left switch is a DPDT switch and is wired to provide "Heavy Soil", "Off", & "Light Soil". The right switch is a SPDT switch that resets the rapid advance timer at the end of the cycle just like opening the door would.
If I had wanted to get even fancier, I could have added a 3rd SPST switch that would have turned the "Sani-heat" delay for the final rinse on or off.
Here are the cycle diagrams for this dishwasher.
Light Soil uses 9-1/2 gallons of water.
Light Soil uses 9-1/2 gallons of water.
And Heavy Soil which uses 16 gallons.
These were not terribly eco-friendly machines in that regard.
This was not the thirstiest of the KA machines, though, the KDS-17 would use 18.9 gallons in it's Soak/Scrub Cycle!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the nearly 19 gallons that the KDS-17 used was the record for a home dishwasher cycle. Were the GE PotScrubbers that thirsty?
These were not terribly eco-friendly machines in that regard.
This was not the thirstiest of the KA machines, though, the KDS-17 would use 18.9 gallons in it's Soak/Scrub Cycle!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the nearly 19 gallons that the KDS-17 used was the record for a home dishwasher cycle. Were the GE PotScrubbers that thirsty?
In all seriousness...no one give a tinker's damn about this machine?
KDS-16
Mark I do love the added switches where the push-button switch used to be, I especially like the little bit of wood-grain around them.
This reminds me of the frist Kenmore BD washer I got when I was 14 that I wanted to fix, it was a 1959 LKM that one of my Mothers friends had given up on and it had timer problems. My Aunt Margret had just replaced her 1955 MOL KM washer and I went over to their house before the Sears guys hulled it away and took about every electrical part off the old washer including the complete wiring harness. I then took the complete PB-Timer assembly out of the 59 LKM installed a piece of 1/4" wood paneling and installed the timer and water temperature controls through the paneling, it worked fine and our family used it that way for a while, so your clever conversion really brings back memories.
I will try to round up the parts you need this weekend and get them shipped, John.
Mark I do love the added switches where the push-button switch used to be, I especially like the little bit of wood-grain around them.
This reminds me of the frist Kenmore BD washer I got when I was 14 that I wanted to fix, it was a 1959 LKM that one of my Mothers friends had given up on and it had timer problems. My Aunt Margret had just replaced her 1955 MOL KM washer and I went over to their house before the Sears guys hulled it away and took about every electrical part off the old washer including the complete wiring harness. I then took the complete PB-Timer assembly out of the 59 LKM installed a piece of 1/4" wood paneling and installed the timer and water temperature controls through the paneling, it worked fine and our family used it that way for a while, so your clever conversion really brings back memories.
I will try to round up the parts you need this weekend and get them shipped, John.
Awesome!
I love the way you improvised this machine to work! I wish I had the intelligence to come up with what you accomplished with the switches while you are waiting on the parts to surface!
Good job and thanks for posting!
Mitch
I love the way you improvised this machine to work! I wish I had the intelligence to come up with what you accomplished with the switches while you are waiting on the parts to surface!
Good job and thanks for posting!
Mitch
So what is the difference between the "Heavy Soil" program and "Full Cycle"? The Heavy Soil program looks similar to my KDS-58's Normal Cycle program: 3 pre-rinses, 1 wash, 3 after rinses, and dry. I'd be curious to see the chart for the Full Cycle program Kenmore71 if you wouldn't mind posting it.
Interesting too that the rinse agent dispenser is called on twice in the Heavy Soil program timer chart, for both rinse #2 and rinse #3... were there other KA's that did that as well?
Interesting too that the rinse agent dispenser is called on twice in the Heavy Soil program timer chart, for both rinse #2 and rinse #3... were there other KA's that did that as well?
As requested...
Here is the cycle sequence for the Full Cycle.
The full cycle on this model only used 2 pre-rinses and 2 after-rinses for a total of 5 fills of water.
The Heavy Soil cycle technically did 3 pre-rinses and 3 after-rinses. BUT if you look closely you will notice that the first AND last rinses are only partial-fill rinses. The first pre-rinse only fills for one minute and then immediately drains. It's a purge that to my thinking also serves the double function of something similar to the famous Kelvinator "Magic Minute" by wetting the dishes with what amounts to a double strength detergent solution for about a minute.
Then the final rinse is also a partial fill that then goes into 2 minutes of water heating before a minute of final rinsing with nice and hot water.
Here is the cycle sequence for the Full Cycle.
The full cycle on this model only used 2 pre-rinses and 2 after-rinses for a total of 5 fills of water.
The Heavy Soil cycle technically did 3 pre-rinses and 3 after-rinses. BUT if you look closely you will notice that the first AND last rinses are only partial-fill rinses. The first pre-rinse only fills for one minute and then immediately drains. It's a purge that to my thinking also serves the double function of something similar to the famous Kelvinator "Magic Minute" by wetting the dishes with what amounts to a double strength detergent solution for about a minute.
Then the final rinse is also a partial fill that then goes into 2 minutes of water heating before a minute of final rinsing with nice and hot water.
Heavy Soil vs. Full Cycle
The difference is the two fills. And both of those are only one timer increment and thus partial fills. that first pre-rinse/wash with the partial fill pretty much wastes the detergent from the open dispenser cup as far as I"m concerned. Heavy soil doesn't buy you any added time during main wash. According to Tomturbomatic, those partial fills pretty much only reach effectively the bottom rack, not much water gets to the top rack. that's why he'd add about another gallon of water on his KAs when using the Sani cycle that used that partial fill so it owuldn't have to heat up a full fill of water. Full Cycle is a better choice in my opinion. Just beig honest. I"m very impressed with your accumen to come up with a working solution until parts arrive. Thus ya get to use and play with the machine.
The difference is the two fills. And both of those are only one timer increment and thus partial fills. that first pre-rinse/wash with the partial fill pretty much wastes the detergent from the open dispenser cup as far as I"m concerned. Heavy soil doesn't buy you any added time during main wash. According to Tomturbomatic, those partial fills pretty much only reach effectively the bottom rack, not much water gets to the top rack. that's why he'd add about another gallon of water on his KAs when using the Sani cycle that used that partial fill so it owuldn't have to heat up a full fill of water. Full Cycle is a better choice in my opinion. Just beig honest. I"m very impressed with your accumen to come up with a working solution until parts arrive. Thus ya get to use and play with the machine.
The intricately detailed differences in fill levels and sequences between the various cycles are fascinating.
Further work on the KDS-16
Thanks to the generosity of some kind people here, I have gotten lots of advice and have finished, for now, my work on the KDS-16. Everything is working exactly as it should!
Here's a pic of the replacement cycle selector switch.
Thanks to the generosity of some kind people here, I have gotten lots of advice and have finished, for now, my work on the KDS-16. Everything is working exactly as it should!
Here's a pic of the replacement cycle selector switch.
And the water heater and motor relays:
The blower and heater heater relay WITH a selector switch...more on that in a second.
After discovering the INSANE amount of heat this machine produces during the DRY portion of the cycle, I decided that I wanted to be able to control whether or not I got a heated dry, especially in the summer.
SO, I recycled the DPDT toggle switch from above and installed it such that I can have HEATED dry, AIR dry or PASSIVE dry (that would be OFF). Since I didn't want to mar the appearance of the machine from the front, I decided to mount the switch on the underside of the lower access panel.
SO, I recycled the DPDT toggle switch from above and installed it such that I can have HEATED dry, AIR dry or PASSIVE dry (that would be OFF). Since I didn't want to mar the appearance of the machine from the front, I decided to mount the switch on the underside of the lower access panel.
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