Kenmore 90 Series multi issues

[bigwhitebox]

I have a 110.23012100 (Kenmore) that I am trying to keep operational due to its "warm water rinse" that is no longer available. Over the years I have replaced transmissions, motors, switches and other wear parts. I now have a few issues that are puzzling me. When I set the rinse cycle for "warm" the water comes out cold except when I hold the temp switch between some settings. .it then is hot. None of the temp settings will give me a warm rinse. I just replaced the timer with the proper model and replaced the water inlet valve .. Neither component installation corrected the issue. I even reinstalled the original water inlet valve without success.The water flow from a disconnected hot water hose is excellent.

The second issue I am having is that the unit will stop when the timer gets to the final spin cycle..It happens regardless of whether the machine is set for 1 rinse or 2.If I turn it off immediately, it will restart and spin again as soon as I pull the knob back to on and finishes the cycle. If I don't catch it immediately after it stops it takes a few minutes of having the knob pushed in (off) to allow it to rest and then I can pull the knob to on and finish the spin cycle. The spin cycle issue occurred with bothering the old timer and brand new Whirlpool (Robertshaw) OEM timer that I just installed

I pulled the motor start switch and cleaned the contact points. The capacitor is new this week

Hopefully there is someone out there that can shed some light on these issues so I can keep this great machine online until the industry figures out that the consumer needs a machine with a warm rinse again.

 

[blockeight88]

Warm Rinse

I bet that model has ATC temperature, in that case all warm rinses are regulated to 75F. Reason its coming out cold now is because your incoming tap water most likely is at least 70F.  

 

Timer sounds like it's beginning to fail?

 

[bigwhitebox]

The timer currently installed is a brand new Whirlpool (Robertshaw) OEM timer. The issue also occurred with the old timer. That is why the new timer was purchased so I don't think the issue is with the timer

 

[bigwhitebox]

You may be on to something with the incoming water temp explanation.. I recently refilled the hot tub and noticed that the incoming water was warmer (69-70) than usual. Maybe the washer is happy with that and the ATC won't let any more hot water be added.

Now if I can figure out the cause for the pre-spin shutdown, I'll be a happy camper

 

[blockeight88]

Timer

I wish I knew. Maybe you can take a video demonstrating the issue.  

 

The machine has a temperature sensor (NLA) that detects the incoming water temp and tells the machine when to make adjustments. If you want 50/50 hot & cold for a warm rinse you need the earlier generation, like I have in my picture. 

 

[bigwhitebox]

Thanks for the generational differences regarding the ATC operation. Do you have any advice on the shutdown issue as the spin cycle starts on heavy loads. If my explanation above is not clear enough I can expand it further. I just don't want to start throwing new parts at the machine trying to diagnose the cause

 

[combo52]

Kenmore direct Drive washer stopping at final spin

It sounds like the motor is overheating and going out on overload, if it did it with both timers it’s not likely a bad timer.

Check the motor carefully for bad bearings try putting a different motor in to see if it behaves differently.

P S there is no advantage to a Warm rinse on an automatic washer, especially in an area of the country where the water never gets cold to begin with. No detergent maker recommends warm rinsing it can lead to increase bacteria in your clothing. If you don’t get it dried quick enough., He can also lead to more mold and bacteria growth in the machine itself.

John

 

[bigwhitebox]

The water temp issue has solved itself with cooler weather and thus cooler incoming water

UPDATE: I replaced the motor with a brand new Whirlpool motor and included start switch. The same problem continues (final spin starts, but sounds "weak". About 2 seconds later the motor stops. After turning off the machine and letting it rest for about 15 minutes I can start it again to finish the spin cycle. If I don't shut off the machine when it stops on it's own the timer keeps advancing as normal, but no actual spin. Transmission is 1 year old, new timer, new drive basket/clutch, new capacitor. I read somewhere but can't find it anymore about capacitor wiring issues. My capacitor is mounted on the back wall of the washer cabinet. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[bigwhitebox]

One more clarification. The machine ran through a full cycle fine with just water but had the spin/stop issue with a medium size load of clothes

 

[DADoES]

 
A video of the spin failure, with the lid open (lid switch tricked) to observe the basket action, would be helpful.  Videos can't be uploaded into posts.  Best method is place on YouTube.  Standard YouTube links (not Shorts) pasted into posts are automatically embedded for viewing.

 

[coldspot66]

Is there a low voltage problem? are you running the washer on an extension cord or power strip?

 

[bigwhitebox]

I'll post YouTube video the next time it's used. As for voltage, I can run other high amp appliances (toaster oven, vaccuum gas dryer on the circuit w/o a problem. It a 20 amp circuit

 

[combo52]

Motor problems on a Direct drive washer??

It’s possible, the clutch is not slipping, it would be helpful to put it on an amp meter and watch the way it ramps up into spin with a heavy load, it could be a combination of things, but my best guess right now would be a clutch if it works with no clothing and cuts out with a load.

I would also check the voltage as the machine starts and runs if it gets under 110 V you’re more apt to see problems especially if it loads down near 100 V. You’re definitely gonna have a problem.

John

 

[bigwhitebox]

UPDATE: I put a meter on the outlet that the washer uses.. 119/120 volts with washer running prior to the shut down issue. Once it starts the final spin the motor starts but not strong. House voltage drops to 112/113 and the motor stops. Assume the thermal fuse in motor activated.

I ran a 12 gauge extension cord from a part of the hose with newer electrical lines to the washer. 119/120 volts static. After the washer motor had cooled off from the previous shutdown I attempted a restart of the final spin cycle. It did it's weak spin and line voltage dropped below. 100 volts and motor shut down.

It appears that the washer has a dragging problem but only for the final spin. I've ordered a new water pump (current one is 4 years old) arriving next week in case the water pump itself is dragging down the motor. It pumps water out fine, but could the impeller itself go bad and create a drag. I'm completely frustrated with this issue that does not have a clear cause. Thanks for your continued ideas as to the cause

 

[eronie]

Clutch is not slipping

 

[bigwhitebox]

Today I installed a new water pump in case the old one was causing a drag load. I also installed a new transmission (had one sitting in storage due to a previous shipping fiasco), new clutch (3 pad), and new capacitor. Unit ran through all cycles fine with just a tub of water (small load setting). The final spin worked as it should with line voltage dropping to 113 from the fill/agitation/rinse line voltage of 119. I thought the problems were behind me finally.

I put in a light blanket in to wash. Agitation and rinse worked OK. When it got to the fill and drain cycle that is just before the final spin it started to spin and line voltage dropped to 111 and it stopped. I let it cool 15 minutes, pulled the knob to "on" and it started up a strong spin. When the timer (new timer) advanced to the final spin it did the weak spin start again , line voltage dropped to 111 and the washer stopped. Assuming motor thermal switch (new motor) again

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[bigwhitebox]

Today I used a kill a watt to measure amps.. At spin startup it's about 9.5 amps then drops to a consistent +- 7.7 amps for the duration of the spin. This is at any position on the dial that is a spin mode. My wife has advised me that it has,in fact, stopped (overheated) at the spin position right after the initial wash agitation. I've had the drum out several times and there are no objects or clothing between the tub and drum. One thing that I noticed is that the drum does not turn by hand when the machine is off. Is it supposed to turn by hand when off? All tests today were run with no clothes/no water. My wife also noted that the shutdown issue does not occur as much when she is using a gentler cycle than the heavy duty/fast cycles
Checked red capacitor line from cap to motor connector. It has same resistance (.9) as a few other wires in the loom. I also checked a piece of 14 GA stranded wire just cut from a roll. It has the same resistance. Checked all wires to their connections. No visible issues. The only way that the tub turns by hand when off is if large tub nut is loosened, but it tightens up on its own with normal tub rotation. I can turn transmission shaft by hand with just some gear and oil resistance when the agitator is off. Amp draw with "loose tub nut" is the same as noted above.
One trick I discovered today while running through a load of clothes is that when it starts its "weak" spin (it was a normal sized load on fast/fast setting) if I quickly lift the lid up out of the lid switch and put it back down immediately, it will ramp up the spin speed to normal and finish the spin. Don't know why this works, but it prevents the motors thermal switch from activating.

Could the brake be partially on causing a drag and preventing me from being able to turn the tub by hand when the machine is off. ? It has the standard yellow spring that my previous brake assembly had.

 

[ryner1988]

Wow, it must be so incredibly frustrating to have gone through this much work, and still the cause of the problem remains elusive. Since you mentioned that it gets going properly after opening and closing the lid, could it be that the lid switch is shorting out? I'm not sure if they do that, my guess is that the lid switch either works or it doesn't, but I'm just spit-balling here because like you, I'm totally stumped. Admittedly I don't know a lot about the fine details of how wiring and motors and things like that work, but I would think that the issue would have been found by now, given how much effort you've gone through to identify it. We know it's not the clutch or the transmission since you have new of both in there, nor is it the motor or capacitor, and that's the direction I would have went in trying to diagnose. Could it be the circuit itself? Perhaps the washer is taking too much power when it goes into spin and short-circuiting? I hope this all works out and I'll honestly be looking forward to the end of this story because it's so very strange.

Ryne

 

[combo52]

Motor going out on overload at spin start

Do you ever hear the motor Cut back into the start winding as it tries to get going in spin?

The clutch is definitely not slipping enough if it runs with no load, but cuts out with a normal load.

If the motor is cutting in and out of the start winding as it tries to go into spin, put a second start capacitor in parallel. This is worked when we have had this problem occasionally over the years.

It would be worth also trying to get the clutch to slip more by lubricating it or something it should not be doing this.

John

 

[ryner1988]

Reply #18

John, I believe the OP said they put in a whole new clutch (reply #15) and the problem is still occurring. Could the issue of the clutch not slipping enough still be present, even with a whole new clutch?