Kenmore 90 Series multi issues

[ryner1988]

Reply #18

John, I believe the OP said they put in a whole new clutch (reply #15) and the problem is still occurring. Could the issue of the clutch not slipping enough still be present, even with a whole new clutch?

 

[bigwhitebox]

Here's today's edition of the saga. I removed the basket drive tube/brake. Even with cam turned, the fit was tight in the brake drum. The tub could not be turned by hand in either direction. I've read that some replacement brake assemblies may have thicker shoes. I think that's what I got. I hand sanded them a little . I also put a small amount of Sil Glyde high temp grease on the brake drum and shoes. It fit much better. The brake application is not so abrupt and it only takes a few more seconds for it to fully stop. More than acceptable.The tub can now be turned by hand

The machine ran through a light load of clothes with no shutdown, but a heavy large load caused the weak spin/thermal switch to activate. If I slightly lift the lid and close it immediately just as it goes into the spin mode with a heavy load it finishes the spin cycle without interruption or motor overload.

I like the idea of running 2 capacitors in parallel. Would they be wired just like I would wire 2 car batteries in parallel? I don't see any difference or marks on the capacitor terminals so how do I know that I am doing parallel and not series?

I appreciate the interest that other posters are giving this topic. I can't believe a low tech machine can present such a challenge to fix

 

[combo52]

Spin start up problems, direct drive washer

I have occasionally seen a problem like this in my career I remember one machine that was only half dozen years old and the center post bearings were actually tight, only time I saw that.

I’ve had a couple of machines that would click in and out of the motor start winding going into spin for that the dual capacitors solve that problem nicely. There’s no positive or negative on the capacitors, etc. just parallel the two of them tape clamp them together to keep them in place, that would be the next thing I would try on your machine.

Keep us posted, John

 

[bigwhitebox]

I installed the 2 capacitors in parallel. They are identical specs and same manufacturer. Tried the first loads today. Medium sized load of work clothes. When it came time to spin (after the tub drained) the spin started kind of weak sounding and the amp reading was 24 amps. Kind of weird. It's a 20 amp circuit. Did not blow circuit breaker. I used to immediately push in the knob after the machine shut down to let the motors thermal switch cool if that's what has been activating. This time I just left the control knob where it was when it shut down. In less than 2 minutes the motor started on its own and finished the spin cycle strongly at about 8 to 9 amps.

This weird behaviour happened on both of the rinse cycle ( first and second rinse).

It ran the load without any interaction from me but the shutdown and delayed self start is puzzling

 

[bigwhitebox]

It's been awhile and time for an update. The machine has routinely experienced the motor shut off at the start of any spin cycle. Today I decided to tackle it again. Just a point of information, the tub did not spin by hand when the machine is off. It it supposed to be able to be hand-turned? I disassembled everything down to the spin tube/brake assembly. It was very hard to turn the tube counter clockwise (brake released). It dragged on the brake drum. I got it out and there was evidence that it was not making uniform contact and I suspected an out of round set of brake shoes. I sanded the shoe material down in stages to get them rounder. I inserted it multiple times to check progress and ended up with a result with minimal dragging with brake off. I don't know if it is supposed to have any drag when installed, but did not want to remove too much brake shoe material.

I cleaned up the clutch pads and reinstalled the trans/motor/pump assembly. The motor is brand new. Here's how the first test cycle went with a medium load of jeans and a few flannel shirts:

Fill
Normal agitation
Drain
Spin with no issues
Fill for rinse cycle
Normal rinse agitation
Drain
Starts to spin. No "clunk" heard prior to spin. Spin did not come up to full speed and motor shut down
I just let it sit without touching any controls (washer cabinet was off/lid switch bypassed)
After about 60-90 seconds there was an audible "clunk" and the machine started a normal spin at full speed and completed the entire wash cycle

Any suggestions or diagnostic thoughts? I'm at my wit's end with this machine that I want to recesitate because of the features that aren't available on today's disposablevwashers.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

 

[combo52]

Wow, you’re still having problems, I still think it’s more related to the clutch not slipping enough as it starts.

It may be related to the household voltage. How far is this machine from your circuit breaker panel? Maybe try running a new 10 gauge circuit directly from your panel to the machine.

I assume you still have two start capacitors In parallel on the washer motor?

Normally, you should not be able to easily turn the washer basket when the machine is not in use the brake is pretty powerful, but with the transmission out when you turn the brake assembly by the white plastic cam, it should turn very freely. The brake should completely release if it doesn’t it won’t spin at all.

Keep us posted
John

 

[DADoES]

 
Of course, as John advises, the basket should be very difficult to turn by hand when the brake is engaged, which is at all times when the basket isn't actively being driven for spin rotation ... that's the purpose of the brake, holding the basket immobile.

 

[bigwhitebox]

As for a voltage issue, after the pump drain/weak spin/shutdown it will start and finish a strong spin after a "clunk" is heard after the shutdown (after a period of about 60-90 seconds). Is the clunk the neutral engaging/disengaging in the transmission or is it the clutch finger engaging. The clutch is a 3 pad unit. It takes some effort to move the clutch pad ring by hand. Could it be too tight and bind things up?

 

[bigwhitebox]

My dad was an appliance technician for over 20 years so it may
be my stubbornness or loyalty to his memory that won't let this appliance issue beat me.

 

[qsd-dan]

Does anyone have the wattage specs for these machines? 9.5 and 7.7 amps equals 1140 and 924 watts at 120 volts. That draw sounds insanely high, especially for a neutral drain washer.

For comparison, a 2 belt Maytag will draw 600 watts at the beginning of a spin drain, moving 19 gallons of water soaked fabrics at a dead stop and peter down to 200 watts when up to speed.

It's sounding like the center post bearings are seizing up. You have replaced just about everything else unless something wasn't properly installed or a part is malfunctioning.

 

[fisherpaykel]

possibly intermittent low/high voltage

I don't know if at all similar situation but you mentioned 105 volts at some part of spin attempt but a friend's slow agitation no spin when full problem was voltage power line problem. Tree branches rubbing, pulling on overhead power supply line to house. Thread titled "MaytagA610 slow agitate, no spin when full problem" Thread Number 64067 There were low and high voltages at different outlets before power company tightened connections at house feed and trimmed tree branch.

 

[bigwhitebox]

UPDATE. PROBLEM SOLVED?

After living with the issue for many months,, I decided to tackle it again. Suspecting that the paralled capacitors were still not providing the power to start the spin cycle correctly, I narrowed my focus to them. First off, I purchased a multimeter to properly test them with a capatance test setting. I found that they were both out of spec even though they are relatively new. I found an old capacitor that met the requirement for my machine and tested it with the new meter. It was in the mid range of the required spec so I installed it. SUCCESS!

While trying to research the cause of past capacitor failure s, I came across voltage spikes as a possible cause. Our power company has frequently turned off power due to windy conditions and I had to run a generator to power the house. It was an older style with less-than-ideal voltage regulation. This may have contributed to the past capacitor deaths. A new generator is now installed with more power and excellent voltage regulation.

Perhaps the dead capacitors also were bad from the start. I'll never know but the new multimeter was excellent for providing a definite diagnosis. A new capacitor that I'll check prior to installation is ordered and I hope that my washer issues are behind me. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this topic. I hope my issues and diagnosis save someone else time when it's time to repair their machine.