Kenmore belt drive clunking/banging and not spinning/draining properly?

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dustin92

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Good friends of mine have a Kenmore Belt drive portable washer (70's or so) and about 6 months ago it burned up the belt. I replaced it and it has been working fine until recently. They had told me it was clunking and I did hear it, but being where it is located, I really wasn't into doing anything to it until it quit again. Well, it hasn't quit yet, but the clunking has turned into banging, and it isn't spinning or draining properly. It starts to drain, tries to kick into spin and stops draining, then kicks out of spin with a huge bang. Repeatedly. If I leave the lid open until the tub is empty, it will eventually spin out, but obviously something is wrong. Replacing it is not an option because a full size washer just won't fit. I know almost nothing about the workings of a belt drive whirlpool, and need to fix it on the first try. It is located in their bathroom, between the toilet and corner shower, and has to be lifted from the front, up and over the toilet to get to the back access panel. Impossible to do with 2 strong people, very difficult with 3. We may actually just take the toilet bowl off the floor to get it out this time. The matching 110v dryer has been working beautifully since I replaced the rollers about the same time as the washer's belt. Just de linted it yesterday. Any help is appreciated!
 
Taking a guess, it maybe the wig-wag or the wire leading to the wig-wag broken or the plungers are sticking.
To get to it, the machine must be moved!

Others may chime in!
 
Maybe time for something new. There are lots of nice new compact front loaders now. Consumer Reports has a page on them this very month.
 
Sounds like...

A slow drain condition. Perhaps a small item escaped to the outer tub and blocks the drain.

Malcolm
 
I agree with Malcolm...

This does sound like a slow drain problem.

These machines won't spin when the water level pressure switch is still satisfied. It sounds like water is partially draining enough to un-trip the switch, then the machine completes the spin circuit and starts to spin.

Spinning the tub with water in it is probably causing an out of balance situation which would explain the banging. The sloshing water of a partially filled tub will then temporarily re-satisfy the pressure switch and the spin will stop until the switch allows spin again.

What is causing the slow drain is the clincher here. Is the drain hose kinked? Is there a blockage like Malcolm wondered? Is the pump failing? Is the drain hose too narrow?

Check the drain hose first...

Gordon
 
You mention "if I leave the lid open until the tub is empty, it will eventually spin out"... do you mean that once the water has drained completely that spinning works consistently without any banging?

If not, with the tub empty of water and clothes, does spinning work properly?
 
I guess I didn't explain very well about the banging or slow/no draining, it starts draining just fine, then tries to kick into spin (as it always has) but maybe 2-3 seconds later, kicks back out of spin with a loud clunk/bang, then repeats the performance multiple times. When it tries to spin, the flow from the drain hose slows to a trickle or nothing, then as soon as it kicks out with a bang, starts draining again properly for a few seconds until it tries to spin again, then slows/stops draining again. If the lid is left up until it is empty, the drain will flow normally, and it may only start/stop/clang/bang a couple times, then ramps up to normal spin speed. If the tub is empty (no water or clothes) it will clunk once and ramp up to speed. It has always gone in/out of spin a few times before ramping to full speed (usually starts trying to spin with about 1/3 a tub of water) but has only started the clunk/bang within the last couple months, and the draining issue only started recently, along with the noise getting louder. Again I know I will have to move it to repair it, but total replacement is not an option at this point, the funds just aren't there. A front loader would be nice, but absolutely will not fit, the current washer sits about 4 inches from the toilet on the left, against the wall on the right, and about 6 inches from the shower in front. There isn't room for a front door to open at all. It's a tiny one bedroom house, so there is no other place for a washer. The dryer is actually in the kitchen, right next to the table, and a full size dryer would make it impossible to sit on one side of the table. Tiny house lol.
 
The agitation cycles are working totally fine by the way, and the waterfall lint filter is flowing properly during the wash/rinse.
 
This is just generic stuff but it'll probably be along

these lines you find it:

1) Wig-wag? Wires to wig-wag? (check for mounting, something bent or stuck in there, electrical continuity, firm connections)

2) Pressure switch tube/connection at tub. especially as you're having to tilt this washer a lot. Maybe water or suds or something partially blocking that tube? Same electrical stuff as (1).

3) Blockage in drain hose, pump, sump? Hose kinked?

4) The lid open is interesting. Is the lid-safety switch also involved (more than one problem?)

5) Timer. Ick. Double-Ick. Unlikely, but worth checking.

 

Oh course, I'm assuming the usual stuff like the drainpipe is clear, the floor is level, etc. Nobody suddenly switched to a high-sudsing detergent? 

 

I'd absolutely not replace this washer unless you have no choice. We have a DD version which is a super fast spinner and washes unbelievably well. The later models with their jury-rigged half-hearted electronics have all been worthless junk. I'd avoid them like the pest. Whirlpool took what had been a really solid performer and turned it into a piece of trash when they went down that route.

 

 
 
1. Wig wag- no clue but may have something to do with it, won't know until it is hoisted out of its corner.

2. Pressure switch and hose- nope, it fills properly and all.

3. Blockage in drain hose/pump/sump- possible but unlikely, as it drains properly until in tries to engage the spin, then slows/stops until it clunks out of spin, then drains properly again. It will pump water out once it reaches full spin speed.

4. Lid switch- nope. Opening the lid allows it to continue draining but it won't spin with the lid open.

5. Timer- nope. The timer is working properly, it runs through the cycle fine, wash, drain/spin/spray/spin, rinse, drain/spin/spray/spin.

I'm at a loss as to what might be wrong with this thing, it was very low mileage when I got it for them but has been used quite a bit in the last 9-10 months. As far as I've seen they don't overload it or anything, but did have their daughter staying with them for a short time and she would overload it sometimes. It was working fine at that point though, and has been for the last 6 or so months (after I replaced the original belt). They don't use high sudsing detergent, and have moderately hard water so really no detergent is high sudsing in their water. I'm almost thinking maybe the new belt has loosened or stretched causing it to slip as it's trying to ramp up to spin, causing the pump to slow or stop. That really wouldn't explain the clunking though. It's a heavy metal to metal clang.
 
It is drained into the bathroom sink, which isn't backing up, so no issues there, and the floor isn't terribly level or sturdy, but the problems aren't balance related. Yes it will shake and vibrate during spin, but the problems are before it gets to that point- when it tries to spin with water still in the tub, it only gets up to maybe 30 rpm before it kicks out within 10 seconds. Then repeats itself until either the lid is lifted to continue draining or until it eventually gets enough water out to spin or the cycle times out.
 
 
<blockquote>It has always gone in/out of spin a few times before ramping to full speed (usually starts trying to spin with about 1/3 a tub of water)</blockquote> It should never go into spin with any water in the tub.  The water should drain completely before spin begins.  There has apparently been a drain restriction of some ilk for a long time.
 
As far as I know there is no drain restriction, as long as it's not trying to spin, there is a forceful stream coming out of the hose. The hose is a bit different from a typical washer drain hose, but no doubt original. The hose exits the washer in a typical? 1"? 1 1/2"? Size, then immediately narrows to maybe 1/2" or maybe 3/4"? The hose is smooth gray rubber with a loop at the end to hang on a sink.
 
Whether it should or not, I don't know, the lint filter continues to flow until the water level has dropped below the pump inlet (I'm guessing here). If it tries to spin, the lint filter is flowing, then as it drains and ramps up, the water eventually stops flowing from the filter.
 
I may go over this afternoon and watch it through a whole cycle, taking details and pictures, and see how many times it actually attempts to spin, when it clunks, etc. I don't want to actually move it until we have a general consensus on what is causing the problems, because it is HEAVY and requires 3 people to lift it out, and put it back. I want to move it out once and back. Actually I don't want to do that even, but it will have to be done!
 
 
As others have explained, a Whirlpool (or Kenmore) old-style belt-drive washer won't spin until the water level pressure switch resets ... the pressure switch is in the circuit with the wig-wag spin solenoid when the timer is on a spin position.

If drain is slow and the timer advances from neutral drain to spin with enough water remaining in the tub such that the pressure switch is not reset, neutral drain will continue until the water level drops sufficiently.

The spin solenoid on the wig-wag triggers at that point and spin begins ... but the remaining water in the tub swirls/kicks-up from the spin, which typically triggers the pressure switch to engage again and spin stops, reverts back to neutral drain.  Spin starts again when the basket brakes to a stop, the swirling water settles, and the pressure switch resets again.  This spin / neutral drain / spin / neutral drain sequence will repeat until enough water is drained that it doesn't swirl/kick-up high enough to trigger the pressure switch.

IMO (unless there's something specific about compact models of which I'm unaware), if the machine ever goes into spin during normal cycle progression without the water being fully drained (1/3 of of a tubful is a lot to be remaining), then there's a problem of some ilk, ostensibly the drain route is restricted somewhere.  Maybe a sock or other piece of clothing is in the outer tub partially blocking the drain port.
 
The drain may be restricted because of the narrow hose, *but* that doesn't solve the problem of why it stops draining immediately when it tries to engage the spin, not after the tub spins up to speed, but as soon as it engages. It either slows to a trickle or stops completely. Then, as soon as it disengages the spin with a loud clunk, water starts gushing from the hose. I really don't think there is anything in the outer tub blocking the drain.
 


The compact belt drive washers have a 4 minute drain before they try to spin. All water should be out before spin starts, if not you have a drainage problem. The reason the water flow slows down when it goes into spin, is the water in the tub is keeping the tub from coming up to speed properly and slowing the pump down.
 
It may partially be a timer issue then. It does drain before it tries to spin, but I highly doubt it is 4 minutes. More like 45 seconds to a minute. That is how it's worked since I picked it up for them. Partially drains, then multiple attempts to spin. Any ideas what may be causing the clanging and banging?
 
One thing to check for is once draining starts, does the washer try to start spinning before the timer moves an additional increment? Time how long each timer increment is... I believe they should be 2 minutes. In between the wash and spin portions of the cycle, there should be at least one if not two increments of the timer (ie: 2 or 4 minutes) where the neutral drain occurs, and the timer does not send power to either wig-wag. If the washer tries to start spinning in the increment immediately after the agitation stops and draining starts, then that is not normal.

One other thing you can try is a different cycle on the timer to see if the same thing happens in that cycle.
 
Timer

You may need to time the neutral drain as well as monitor the timer advancement.
I suspect there should be 2 increments of neutral drain before spin is engaged. Additionally, the water level may have been adjusted too high which invites small items to hope the edge of the tub and get down to the drain port. Perhaps a long shot, but we are all throwing stones in the dark...

I would get over there and examine operation yourself as soon as possible.

Malcolm
 
The water level is definitely not too high, I've thought about raising it a bit but never actually have. I'm pretty sure it's one of the first portables, I'll snap a couple pictures of it when I go over there, probably this evening. It definitely doesn't start spinning immediately after agitation stops, it drains for maybe 45 seconds to a minute, then starts attempting to spin.
 
from what I have seen, all portables had a 4 minute drain, already built in for purpose of using a sink connector, hence the smaller hose restriction...still way more than enough time to drain out the tub...

timer increments, at least for a electromechanical timer is 2 minutes.....only machine I ever see to alter was an electronic/digital machine, which would measure and account for when the tub was empty, to jump into spin.....so as a small load would not take as much time to drain as a full tub...my own experience has been with a direct drive machine....

but even my full size, super capacity, 1984 belt drive had a 4 minute drain....
and all water was gone before the first two minute part was finished....the rest seemed a waste....

but actually, is this a true 24" portable?......or the one with retractable wheels?
 
A direct-drive machine must pause & restart the motor to shift from neutral-drain to spin, which requires a timer increment. The timer increments on it are 45 sec duration?
 
It is a portable with retractable wheels, one fill valve and push to start timer. No temp control, load size is set by turning the knob past the fill portion of the cycle, otherwise it is a full load. Two speed motor with normal, delicate and permanent press cycles. Gold straight vane agitator, waterfall manual clean lint filter.
 
Yes! That's exactly it, washer and dryer both. They are white, but obviously that doesn't make a difference in the mechanical side of things.
 
I'll be going over to check it out today, I was planning on going yesterday, but by the time I got other things done, it was getting a little late, and roads were getting a little slippery, and it's a 15 mile drive.
 

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